182 replies to this topic

[NJDevs4978]

Holik going to the Rangers was far worse than Gomez going to the Rangers, or at least it felt that way at the time. Partly because he had a rare skill set (big body who played physical and scored 25+ goals a year) but also because him going to the Rangers felt more like a 'fvck you Lou' move, especially after how annoyed he got during arbitration and after it came out that we actually offered Holik $8-8.5 million per year and he went to the Rangers for $500k more just to stick it to Lou.

Plus Gomez going to the Rangers provided the classic NJDevs 'I told you so' of all time when SatansDevils had been screaming for weeks he'd never go there and he talked to his buddies lol.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 09 July 2012 - 10:58 AM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Of all the player defections we've endured, Gomez still stung the most. It was just a pure cash grab from our biggest rivals. Zach said "No way" about the Rangers, kept his word on it, turned down more money from the Flyers, turned down Sid and the Pens, and ultimately went home. I couldn't hate Rafalski for going home. Why would I hate Zach for it?

Actually, Gomer really didn't bother me that much. Neither did Holik. I think because the offers were so ridiculous for both of them...I never thought they would live up to their deals. I was never nervous about the fact that they were going to the Rangers. I actually found Gomer's press conference laughable, in that everyone involved came off as though they assumed Gomer was just automatically going to become a more productive player because he was signing with the Rangers.

As for Zach, those who hate him for leaving will find reasons to do so. I can understand why...he was popular, he was productive, and it stings to see him go, but like you say, I didn't want him back at the price the Wild paid for him.

[RedArmy8]

As for Zach, those who hate him for leaving will find reasons to do so. I can understand why...he was popular, he was productive, and it stings to see him go, but like you say, I didn't want him back at the price the Wild paid for him.

I will cheer him as well, this was a silly contract and I am glad we didnt' try to match this.
Good Luck Zach, thanks for your efforts.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I will cheer him as well, this was a silly contract and I am glad we didnt' try to match this.
Good Luck Zach, thanks for your efforts.

Didn't say I would cheer him. I'll probably be indifferent if I go to that game.

[JWomp]

The fans will boo, and that is there prerogative, but I am pretty sure that doesn't look good for the players on the team then. They know Parise isn't overrated, or Kovy isn't better. And they like and respect Zach as one of the hardest working players in the game. I'm sure they'd react more positively if fans cheered Zach.

But if fans are going to boo, at least come up with something creative to voice your displeasure.

I bet a lot of the players aren't too thrilled with Zach, either. I don't think they'd mind seeing him booed!

[RedArmy8]

Didn't say I would cheer him. I'll probably be indifferent if I go to that game.

My mistake. But I will still cheer him, he wore our colors with pride. I have no beef with his decision.

[DaneykoIsGod]

haha It's funny seeing how different everyone reactions were to guys like Gomer and Holik leaving compared to Zach. It's such an individualized thing.

For me, seeing Martin leave for Pittsburgh stung more than seeing Parise go to Minny. But then again, I was a huge Martin fan, and to see him leave Jersey just to go to the most stacked team in the league -- which happened to be in our division -- pissed me off something fierce. If anything, I expected that if he left it'd be to go home like Zach did.

With Gomez, I think I talked myself into believing he'd actually stay. I mean, why else would he say "Save me a seat!" in the Prudential Center video thingy?

[ghdi]

Of course I hated Gomez going to a rival, but all season I felt like there was no way he was re-signing here. On the other hand, Zach was feeding us lines about wanting to re-sign here. Maybe I'm a sucker for believing him, but he kept giving me hope, while it was clear Gomez was leaving.

This is how I feel about Gomez as well. With Gomez, I felt there was literally 0 chance he was re-signing here. The main thing that stung about Gomez was where he went. He also decided within 5 minutes of FA opening it seemed and never gave me any thought that he was even considering signing here. Zach was a lot different. I personally felt that he was going to leave, but I had been preparing for it all year so I expected the worst. The only respite from Zach leaving is where. Gomez also wasn't a captain and we weren't 2 games from a cup when he bolted.

I rank the sting of guys leaving like this:
1. Niedermayer 2. Parise 3. Holik 4. Gomez

I only count those four because the other guys who have left, we mostly knew they were going and the consensus was that it wasn't a big deal. Madden was my favorite player when he was here, so that one stung personally, but I didn't hate the guy (nor do I) because it was an expected departure.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

haha It's funny seeing how different everyone reactions were to guys like Gomer and Holik leaving compared to Zach. It's such an individualized thing.

For me, seeing Martin leave for Pittsburgh stung more than seeing Parise go to Minny. But then again, I was a huge Martin fan, and to see him leave Jersey just to go to the most stacked team in the league -- which happened to be in our division -- pissed me off something fierce. If anything, I expected that if he left it'd be to go home like Zach did.

With Gomez, I think I talked myself into believing he'd actually stay. I mean, why else would he say "Save me a seat!" in the Prudential Center video thingy?

I felt the same about Martin as I did about Gomer and Holik. It's funny when you think about how quickly those contracts became bad ones for their employers.

I think Zach would've stung more if he took a lot less money to go to the Wild...his contract makes it a lot easier to let it go (for me anyway).

Niedermayer hurt a little, but that was one that just seemed like it was coming. With Zach, I thought it was 50-50. I never really read too much into anything he said.

I've been trying to think of the Devils I've been watching all of these years, and I think the only ones that could've left that REALLY would've bummed me out had they left in their Devil primes were Marty and Stevens. Daneyko leaving would've been weird, but I don't know if it would've hit me as hard. I remember being very upset and almost feeling sick when MacLean made his trade request known in a pre-game show. It's not like I just automatically expect that big names are going to leave, because big names stay here too...I guess I've seen this team (and other franchises) bounce back from losing key players...the Armageddon so many predict when a Parise-type leaves doesn't happen nearly as much as people think. Losing Reyes was supposed to kill the Mets...it hasn't.

[Triumph]

Paul Martin is not a bad contract for the Penguins, I'm tired of reading this. Yeah, his play fell off a bit this year, but he is still a very solid defenseman who plays capably in all 3 zones and has an excellent breakout pass. I'm not lamenting his loss at all - I think Tallinder is a much better value contract - but that contract isn't impeding the Pens.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Paul Martin is not a bad contract for the Penguins, I'm tired of reading this. Yeah, his play fell off a bit this year, but he is still a very solid defenseman who plays capably in all 3 zones and has an excellent breakout pass. I'm not lamenting his loss at all - I think Tallinder is a much better value contract - but that contract isn't impeding the Pens.

It's not a good value. Didn't say it was impeding the Pens either.

[Daniel]

It's not a good value. Didn't say it was impeding the Pens either.

I think Martin's vastly overrated and overpaid, but his contract is not a bad value. He has only a limited no trade clause, and I think there are enough teams that would give the Penguins something valuable if they were going to trade for him. I could see a competitive team trading a low first round/high second round pick for him.

[ThreeCups]

Actually, Gomer really didn't bother me that much. Neither did Holik. I think because the offers were so ridiculous for both of them...I never thought they would live up to their deals. I was never nervous about the fact that they were going to the Rangers. I actually found Gomer's press conference laughable, in that everyone involved came off as though they assumed Gomer was just automatically going to become a more productive player because he was signing with the Rangers.

As for Zach, those who hate him for leaving will find reasons to do so. I can understand why...he was popular, he was productive, and it stings to see him go, but like you say, I didn't want him back at the price the Wild paid for him.

IIRC, Gomer and Drury arrived in the same offseason, and had a dual press conference. They flipped a puck for the #23 jersey....

I will cheer him as well, this was a silly contract and I am glad we didnt' try to match this.
Good Luck Zach, thanks for your efforts.

Myself and about 17,000 others will be sure to drown out your applause with the most deafening chorus of boos The Rock has EVER seen!

[Bulletproof]

Soeaking of people we were shocked to see go, I remember being pretty blindsided by Gionta going to Montreal. I mentioned this somewhere on Page 2, but I see Parise as only a notch or two above Gio in terms of "shock value" and damage to the franchise. I'll leave the advanced sabermetrics to those far better at it, but a quick glace at the biggies show the following:

Gionta (not counting 01-02 when he played half in NJ, half in Albany)

6 seasons as a Devil
148 goals
153 Assists
301 Points


Parise (not counting 10-11 when he missed all but 13 games)

6 seasons as a Devil
194 goals
216 assists
410 points

Now, it's obvious Parise is a different caliber player than Gionta, but how much of one is he really? Is it that much different? When Gio left, there were some upset people but now that Zach's gone, the entire board is aflame with outrage. Is he really worht that much rage? How about this comparison:

Playoff Gionta (again, not counting 01-02)

67 games as a Devil
19 goals
21 assists
40 points

Playoff Parise

61 games played
21 goals
22 assists
43 points

Sure, it's a small sample size, but those stats are almost dead even, yet when Gio left there was suprise and hurt but now that Zach is gone, we have posters pissing on Parise jerseys. And yes, Parise was our captain but Gio wore the A. I guess it just goes to show how much he meant to us on an emotional level. We had man crushes on him and he broke up with us. That's fair! But when you look at it objectively, as many of my non-Devil fan friends have come up to me and said, it's not the worst thing in the world to happen to the organization. It sucks, no doubt about it, but it's something that can be overcome.

And one more thing. I firmly believe the fans can be as pissed off as they want about this. Nobody can or should tell you how to feel. You feel like booing him on the 11th, boo away. I just find the universal outrage absolutely fascinating. Maybe it's just the exposure of the internet or how easily it is to be caught up in the anger, but I've never seen Devil fan backlash like this before. This trumps the Gomez defection, which still remains, in my opinion, the biggest FU a player has ever done to this franchise.

[Triumph]

It's not a good value. Didn't say it was impeding the Pens either.

It is a decent value. Matt Carle just got 6 years/5.5 million per season. Paul Martin has 3 years left at 5M. Has he transformed magically into the 50 point defender people thought he might? No, but that's not what Pittsburgh was paying for. I know their fans are unhappy with him, but their fans are also dumb.

Re: Gionta - the writing was on the wall there. I don't think anyone thought he would stay, and I don't think Lou ever made an offer for him. NJ had Elias, Rolston, Parise, and Langenbrunner as top 4 wings, with Bergfors coming off a good season in the AHL and possibly able to contribute.

Edited by Triumph, 09 July 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[jim777]

I'm over it. I honestly don't even care if the current fiance eventually marries and leaves with most of that dough. I never bought anything with his name on it because there was always the chance he was going to leave - the one year contract really pointed that out. At this point I care more about who will get the "C" now than I care about him.

[Daniel]

Soeaking of people we were shocked to see go, I remember being pretty blindsided by Gionta going to Montreal. I mentioned this somewhere on Page 2, but I see Parise as only a notch or two above Gio in terms of "shock value" and damage to the franchise. I'll leave the advanced sabermetrics to those far better at it, but a quick glace at the biggies show the following:

Gionta (not counting 01-02 when he played half in NJ, half in Albany)

6 seasons as a Devil
148 goals
153 Assists
301 Points


Parise (not counting 10-11 when he missed all but 13 games)

6 seasons as a Devil
194 goals
216 assists
410 points

Now, it's obvious Parise is a different caliber player than Gionta, but how much of one is he really? Is it that much different? When Gio left, there were some upset people but now that Zach's gone, the entire board is aflame with outrage. Is he really worht that much rage? How about this comparison:

Playoff Gionta (again, not counting 01-02)

67 games as a Devil
19 goals
21 assists
40 points

Playoff Parise

61 games played
21 goals
22 assists
43 points

Sure, it's a small sample size, but those stats are almost dead even, yet when Gio left there was suprise and hurt but now that Zach is gone, we have posters pissing on Parise jerseys. And yes, Parise was our captain but Gio wore the A. I guess it just goes to show how much he meant to us on an emotional level. We had man crushes on him and he broke up with us. That's fair! But when you look at it objectively, as many of my non-Devil fan friends have come up to me and said, it's not the worst thing in the world to happen to the organization. It sucks, no doubt about it, but it's something that can be overcome.

And one more thing. I firmly believe the fans can be as pissed off as they want about this. Nobody can or should tell you how to feel. You feel like booing him on the 11th, boo away. I just find the universal outrage absolutely fascinating. Maybe it's just the exposure of the internet or how easily it is to be caught up in the anger, but I've never seen Devil fan backlash like this before. This trumps the Gomez defection, which still remains, in my opinion, the biggest FU a player has ever done to this franchise.

You can't really compare Gionta and Parise. By the time he left, Gionta was clearly on a downward trajectory. Gio's overall numbers were also boosted by what was clearly an anomolous season. True, Parise's numbers have declined a bit from his 08-09 season. However, they were still good the following season, especially when you consider he was playing under Lemaire's more defensive system. This past year, he got off to a slow start probably as a result of missing the entire previous system and getting used to a new coach (same as Kovy).

I expect Parise to put up at least 30 plus goals and 75 plus points for the foreseeable future. Whether that's worth $98 million is another question with the huge upfront money, which blows Kovy's up front money out the water.

[devils26]

This is how I feel about Gomez as well. With Gomez, I felt there was literally 0 chance he was re-signing here. The main thing that stung about Gomez was where he went. He also decided within 5 minutes of FA opening it seemed and never gave me any thought that he was even considering signing here. Zach was a lot different. I personally felt that he was going to leave, but I had been preparing for it all year so I expected the worst. The only respite from Zach leaving is where. Gomez also wasn't a captain and we weren't 2 games from a cup when he bolted.

I rank the sting of guys leaving like this:
1. Niedermayer 2. Parise 3. Holik 4. Gomez

I only count those four because the other guys who have left, we mostly knew they were going and the consensus was that it wasn't a big deal. Madden was my favorite player when he was here, so that one stung personally, but I didn't hate the guy (nor do I) because it was an expected departure.

I definitely agree with the ranking of those four players but you might want to throw Martin into that mix; I don't think people felt his leaving was no big deal. Yeah, he might be at number 5 for me on that list, but his leaving wasn't easy for me to take either.

One place we differ about Parise is that I bought his crap about wanting to stay, so I think his leaving stings me more than it does you. Overall, however, Nieds' actions stung more than Parise's ever will.

[ghdi]

I definitely agree with the ranking of those four players but you might want to throw Martin into that mix; I don't think people felt his leaving was no big deal. Yeah, he might be at number 5 for me on that list, but his leaving wasn't easy for me to take either.

Its less that I dont think Martin wasn't a big deal, moreso that I think most people (at least myself) thought he was going to leave. At the time Martin's departure stung, but I think now most of us look at it that it was a good decision to let him walk. I think we may look at Parise like that as well (even now from a contractual standpoint), but Martin was never Captain and we weren't coming off of a Finals appearance when he left nor did Martin seem to lead the fanbase on.

Id actually put Rafalski 5th, but there's no ill will towards him at all. I was hoping he'd have been a career Devil.

Edited by ghdi, 09 July 2012 - 03:00 PM.

[Neb00rs]

I'm with Rowdy, dr33, '7', etc.

He didn't sign with the Rangers. He didn't sign with the Flyers. He didn't even stay in the division. Hell, he didn't even stay in the conference.

Sure, he said "We" a couple times while still under contract. Big whoop. And he said "Don't worry" one time. I'm not even sure what that means, but they're both a pretty far cry from "I pinky swear that I'll be a Devil for life." "We" and "Don't worry" carry a lot less weight than hiring a team of agents and going to July 1, IMO, so anyone who was blindsided by this was trying way too hard to convince themselves that Zach would stay.

In this era of professional sports, the second someone hires an agent we fans have to start mentally preparing ourselves for their departure. It sucks, but it's just the nature of being a sports fan now. If they end up staying, then great. It makes you appreciate the player all the more for it (like Elias). But if they leave, at least you're a little more prepared for the reality of it. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.

In the end, Zach is worth nothing remotely close to the contract he got, so I'm glad he's gone in that respect. I've been fearful for the last couple years of the notion of locking Zach up to some long term, big money deal because the writing is on the wall. He's a small guy and plays a style that absorbs a ton of punishment. When injuries and/or age bring on a decline in his skills, he'll be Jay Pandolfo. I loved Pando, but not for $7.5M/year.

We're better off.

Best of luck to Zach out west. He gave us some good memories and no real great ones.

Now back to your regularly scheduled venting ...

There isn't much here that contradicts anything I have to say and for at least the most part I am in general agreement. Nice post.