134 replies to this topic

[ghdi]

But this has been going on for almost a decade now. It comes to a point where you can't put the blame on ownership and money(which if that was the case, they wouldn't have overpaid for Bryce and Marty nor would be hosting a draft in which they will pick up a good chunk of the tab for).

And in that decade we've missed the playoffs once, have a cup victory, and just came within two games of another.

Thats a better track record than 95% of the league.

[SterioDesign]

But how childish is it for a player to value things like that over a well run organization that's known for winning? I'd argue that any player who would make that choice probably doesn't belong on this team anyway.

you really gotta stop taking word by word what im saying... EVERYTHING i'm saying is purely example of his way... Lou is stiff, inflexible, hardballer, oldschool, strict, by the book, stubborn, etc etc... Those people are not the funnest people to be around usually.

Lou is like Steve Jobs, he was doing things HIS WAY and could look like an ass doing it really often and I heard horrible stories about Apple employees. And even dealing with other companies like the Flash thing that he didnt want to have anything to do with, literally just depriving users from that technology on iphones and ipads... That being said, personally im a huge Apple product fan and Jobs is a genius for what he brought and for his vision. Yet theres a LOT of people who really dont like apple cause its so restrained and strict...

So really they are the same, Geniuses who did some good and bad things that people supporting them will absolutely ignore the bad and make up excuses for them and 2 guys who would never bend. You do things their way or its simply not happening.

Edited by SterioDesign, 05 July 2012 - 06:38 PM.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I like the way Lou handles FAs. Other GMs lock up young RFAs to huge contracts before they become superstars to squeeze value of them later and because they are terrified of losing them. As a result they end up signing them to long term deals that don't offer much savings in the short term, in the hope they can get a lot of savings in the long term. See the Erik Karlsson deal for example. That deal would be for a smaller cap hit if it went just up to Karlsson's last RFA year.

The fact that Lou doesn't do this and lets his RFAs go to UFA has some huge benefits

1. Young players play hard for their next contract. They don't get locked into lifetime deals and have an incentive to work hard.

2. The young players are signed to very cap friendly contracts for the entire length of their RFA years. Parise gave so much more value to NJ than a 3-4 million cap hit, which is what he had for much of his time in NJ.

3. Shorter contracts mean less risk. See DiPietro for exhibit A.

4. I think letting players go to UFA instead of pressuring them to sign is a matter of respect. I'd be irritated if my boss tried to get me to sign my future away (even if it was well compensated) without being able to see my options. I think some players appreciate that.

Does that mean every so often the team loses assets like Rafalski, Gomez, and Parise? Yeah, but there's more to it than that. NJ had Gomez for his most productive years and Rafalski for his most valuable (from a salary standpoint). Both will probably end up being true of Parise as well. I think the way Lou deals with RFAs is a big reason for that.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 05 July 2012 - 07:02 PM.

[CarpathianForest]

example given: Roberto Luongo

[ThreeCups]

In 2012, he assembled a team that got us within two wins of seeing a Stanley Cup parade in Newark.

Yes, but what has he done so magnificent from 2003-this year?!?!?

[SterioDesign]

example given: Roberto Luongo

well you dont judge who's the best by comparing to the worsts

[Triumph]

Yes, but what has he done so magnificent from 2003-this year?!?!?

I mean, does this even require answering?

The Devils were 369-226-12-49 over that time. That's an 100 point pace over 82 games. For 8 years. Detroit's probably the only team better, maybe Ottawa, maybe San Jose. Oh, and the Devils had only finished out of the playoffs in 1 of the previous 13 seasons, so basically everyone playing for New Jersey were picked in a draft where the Devils made the playoffs, signed in free agency, or acquired through trade. No Crosby-style tanking, no Toews and Kane the legacy of being terrible, no Ovechkin for blowing a season. Larsson's the closest we've got and he's been here for one year.

The playoff results haven't been there, but if you think playoff results can be controlled, you haven't been watching the playoffs.

Edited by Triumph, 05 July 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[ghdi]

Yes, but what has he done so magnificent from 2003-this year?!?!?

Are you THAT spoiled?

Besides what Triumph already pointed out: We basically stole Kovalchuk from Atlanta and re-signed him to a pretty good contract considering what other big guns are getting. We've won the Atlantic Division 4 times (since 2003), and have won a division title without Niedermayer, Gomez, Gionta, Madden, Stevens, and Rafalski.

[CarpathianForest]

Not to mention we'll be raising an Eastern Conference Champs banner come opening night. Something that our former Captain won't be invited to.

Edited by CarpathianForest, 05 July 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[ThreeCups]

I mean, does this even require answering?

The Devils were 369-226-12-49 over that time. That's an 100 point pace over 82 games. For 8 years. Detroit's probably the only team better, maybe Ottawa, maybe San Jose. Oh, and the Devils had only finished out of the playoffs in 1 of the previous 13 seasons, so basically everyone playing for New Jersey were picked in a draft where the Devils made the playoffs, signed in free agency, or acquired through trade. No Crosby-style tanking, no Toews and Kane the legacy of being terrible, no Ovechkin for blowing a season. Larsson's the closest we've got and he's been here for one year.

The playoff results haven't been there, but if you think playoff results can be controlled, you haven't been watching the playoffs.

Yes we have had regular season success. But why weren't these teams good enough to win playoff rounds?!? I feel like they were good regular season teams, but in the end what does that matter? No game results can be "controlled", but you can add playoff type players that will help win postseason games/rounds. I think overall Lou has done a great job, but I am mystified by some of the people that give him a permanent pass, and never question ANYTHING he does....

[ThreeCups]

Are you THAT spoiled?

Besides what Triumph already pointed out: We basically stole Kovalchuk from Atlanta and re-signed him to a pretty good contract considering what other big guns are getting. We've won the Atlantic Division 4 times (since 2003), and have won a division title without Niedermayer, Gomez, Gionta, Madden, Stevens, and Rafalski.

No I am not THAT spoiled. However, you would think we made it to the ECF or Finals every year with some of the blind Lou praising that goes on here. The Kovy deal was a complete heist, and probably one of the bigger robberies in recent years in the NHL. However, our teams weren't built for the playoffs and our record in the playoffs reflects that....

Not to mention we'll be raising an Eastern Conference Champs banner come opening night. Something that our former Captain won't be invited to.

We won't have a ceremony or have this on opening night. It will be done beforehand, and they may put a spotlight on it or something for a minute. But it will not be a big deal, and it shouldn't be.

[Neb00rs]

Yes we have had regular season success. But why weren't these teams good enough to win playoff rounds?!? I feel like they were good regular season teams, but in the end what does that matter? No game results can be "controlled", but you can add playoff type players that will help win postseason games/rounds. I think overall Lou has done a great job, but I am mystified by some of the people that give him a permanent pass, and never question ANYTHING he does....

we all question him sometimes - have you seen the comments on the Barch signing? The difference is that you are being ridiculous.

[Devils731]

However, our teams weren't built for the playoffs and our record in the playoffs reflects that....

That's what the negative nellies kept saying about this years team whenever people would point out how well the team was doing.

[CarpathianForest]

Not a big deal? It's a big fvcking deal IMO. We were a team predicted to finish the season out of the playoffs. We were considered even with the Cats, beatm them. Vegas odds had us beating the Flyers at 39%, we beat them. No one mentioned us and thought the Rags in the SCF was a foregone conclusion, we beat them. We came within two games of achieving an historic comeback and winning the cup. It's a big fvcking deal. Eastern Conference Champs is a nice consolation prize.

[ThreeCups]

we all question him sometimes - have you seen the comments on the Barch signing? The difference is that you are being ridiculous.

The Barch signing was dumb, but not a huge deal to me. My criticism of Lou is more about how we handles our free agents....

Not a big deal? It's a big fvcking deal IMO. We were a team predicted to finish the season out of the playoffs. We were considered even with the Cats, beatm them. Vegas odds had us beating the Flyers at 39%, we beat them. No one mentioned us and thought the Rags in the SCF was a foregone conclusion, we beat them. We came within two games of achieving an historic comeback and winning the cup. It's a big fvcking deal. Eastern Conference Champs is a nice consolation prize.

It's a nice achievement for the team...but in the end, it's NOT a Cup. Therefore...NOT a big deal. We had a great run, and one that many fans will never forget. We beat 2 division rivals before falling to the Kings in the Cup Finals. A memorable season. BUT, there will not be a ceremony of any kind. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Devils731]

Eastern Conference Champs is a nice consolation prize.

2nd winningest team in the playoffs, it's certainly a big accomplishment, just not the biggest, obviously.

[Neb00rs]

The Barch signing was dumb, but not a huge deal to me. My criticism of Lou is more about how we handles our free agents....

no, you have been arguing that Lou doesn't know what he's doing and hasn't done anything since 2003. I can name numerous good things he did just this year from Zidlicky to Poni.

[ThreeCups]

no, you have been arguing that Lou doesn't know what he's doing and hasn't done anything since 2003. I can name numerous good things he did just this year from Zidlicky to Poni.

Again, I guess everyone takes every word literally. So I will have to compensate for this when posting. Yes the Poni deal was great, as was the Zid deal. Inviting Sykora to camp was a great idea. Lou has made some moves like this work. When I say he "hasn't done anything", I mean he has not built a Championship team. I will give him credit for assembling the team that made the miracle run...but I think it was a culmination of things coming together, moreso than his genius. I do give him credit for this team though. So...

Will everyone be OK with Lou if he sticks to his normal free agent operating procedures and waits until 7/1 to try to lock up Zajac?!?

[ghdi]

My criticism of Lou is more about how we handles our free agents....

Again. Our success is in the #'s. The NHL is a different game since the trapezoid and rule changes. Theres a reason no team has repeat as Cup champs in so long. The cap has changed so much, yet we're still making the playoffs minus 1 time and have won a division title without any of the free agents we've lost. We will win without Zach Parise. Theres no reason to believe we won't.

More often than not, Lou has made the right choice when it comes to our free agents. He's not perfect and I don't think anyone would say he is, but I'd surely rather have Lou making the decisions at age 75 than bring in a dipsh!t like Jay Feaster or Paul Holmgren or Glen Sather.

If we were the Toronto Maple Leafs, Lou would have a statue built outside the ACC of him by now.

[Devil Dan 56]

you really gotta stop taking word by word what im saying... EVERYTHING i'm saying is purely example of his way... Lou is stiff, inflexible, hardballer, oldschool, strict, by the book, stubborn, etc etc... Those people are not the funnest people to be around usually.

Lou is like Steve Jobs, he was doing things HIS WAY and could look like an ass doing it really often and I heard horrible stories about Apple employees. And even dealing with other companies like the Flash thing that he didnt want to have anything to do with, literally just depriving users from that technology on iphones and ipads... That being said, personally im a huge Apple product fan and Jobs is a genius for what he brought and for his vision. Yet theres a LOT of people who really dont like apple cause its so restrained and strict...

So really they are the same, Geniuses who did some good and bad things that people supporting them will absolutely ignore the bad and make up excuses for them and 2 guys who would never bend. You do things their way or its simply not happening.

Ah ok good. Now we are hitting some common ground. I like the Jobs comparison. They are both geniuses that did some good and bad, and they were also both incredibly successful. And the reason they are is exactly what you said... It's their way or it isn't happening. They both are very confident in their abilities to run their respective organizations. Do they fail? Yes, most definitely. They make mistakes. But anyone who has a high level of success also makes mistakes. It comes with the territory.

What Lou has done in New Jersey is create a certain respectability and vibe. Jersey will never be glamorous or sexy, but it's a destination for a certain type of player. As Tri said earlier, it's not about social media or any of that. It's not about fun, it's about success. The way he's built the team is definitely not for everyone, but he knows that the players he has here are loyal and want to be here. Guys like Marty, Daneyko, Stevens, Elias, they all bought into that idea. Gomez, Martin, etc, they didn't. But even guys who left like MacLean, Driver, Niedermayer, Lemieux, they all came back in one capacity or another. One thing everyone says about the organization is that it is very well run.

I agree with you that Lou is not flawless. I just feel that his mistakes are no worse than anyone elses, and worth it when you consider his successes. I also feel that his strategies fit his overall philosophy. It's a sacrifice that you'll lose certain players and not be able to attract certain types of players. Granted, when he leaves, off ice things will be more 'fun', but we'll probably have more 2010-11 style seasons then we are used to.