61 replies to this topic

[ghdi]

What's the difference between a NMC and NTC?

A no-trade clause requires a player's consent before a trade involving that player is made. If a player has a no-movement clause, the player cannot be traded, waived, or sent down to the minors without that player's approval.

[insanity_gallops]

What I was thinking of so far as the options on the first rounder was concerned was that we don't lose out on the possibility of drafting Jones or MacKinnon if the things fall apart this year. If all goes well, we forfeit this year's pick, and trade next year's or the following year's.

With your Parise scenario, I'd certainly be pissed off about it, but I think Columbus fans are going to be pissed about the Nash trade no matter what. Not perfectly analogous, but the deal Atlanta got for Kovalchuk was a lot worse, to the point of more or less giving him up for nothing. That's the problem when someone demands a trade, and, by the way, gives you a short list of teams he's willing to go to.

If we were hearing that there was a bidding war between Carolina and the Rangers where Carolina was one-upping the Rangers offer of Kreider with Skinner, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, everyone seems to be in a race to give Columbus the biggest low ball offer possible. I suppose that's what happens when you have a moron for a GM in Howson.

This is actually the wild card in all of this. Howson has done some ridiculous things as a GM - and that's saying a lot considering he's in the wake of Doug MacLean, who was brutal. Howson just might want to rid himself of the whole thing and take a lowball offer... but he's also got to realize (well, at least he SHOULD realize) that doing so will certainly cost him his job. Don Waddell got hosed in the trades he orchestrated and it eventually caught up to him, even if the writing had been on the wall for some time. Ditto for Ferguson Jr. in Toronto.

Essentially, Howson has to get at least a decent return for Nash. Greene & Josefson + is not a decent return considering they're the only "surefire" pieces of the puzzle... and even Josefson is still something of an unknown. If the Rangers even offered Dubinsky & Erixon +, that's a better deal for Columbus because of Dubinsky's style of play. Ditto for the Red Wings offering Filppula & Abdelkader +, considering the Blue Jackets could manage with their defense and another signing like Greg Zanon. I don't know what the hell the Senators are trying to offer, but it can't center on any of their defensemen. Maybe Turris & Greening +?

Anyway. Devils' offer, while a decent lowball, still doesn't seem to stack up to other offers. At least from where I sit, but that's my opinion.

[Bibby89]

In reality, I kind of think Columbus has made some decent moves this offseason and Nash should just stick it out. They brought im Bobrovsky, Foligno and drafted well. No way are they that bad again this year.

[insanity_gallops]

Right, whoops, forgot to mention the Kovalchuk trade from Atlanta's perspective.

ATL got Johnny Oduya, Niclas Bergfors, Patrice Cormier, a 1st in 2010, and a 2nd in 2010. After all was said and done, Atlanta traded Kovalchuk and eventually ended up with Radek Dvorak for a playoff run (whoops), Patrice Cormier, Dustin Byfuglien, Ben Eager, Brent Sopel (for a bit), and Akim Aliu. Plus two pending draft picks in the upcoming draft (2nd & 3rd in 2013).

Given how Byfuglien has helped the team, the return could have been a lot worse. Like how they dealt Marian Hossa for spare parts... Erik Christensen, Colby Armstrong, Angelo Esposito, and a 1st round bust. Ouch.

But, at the time, it was something of a low-ball offer, even though the Devils could spin Oduya as a top-pairing defenseman for them (similar to Greene), Bergfors as a potential goal scorer in the league (a step up from Josefson in that department, though Josefson has a much better all around game), a top prospect (Gelinas?), a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder.

...holy crap, Daniel's kinda right - Devils do have a shot in the dark at it. It all comes down to Howson's desperation and Nash's destination list. Yikes.

*Still think the Devils' offer is crap compared to others', though.

[ghdi]

Right, whoops, forgot to mention the Kovalchuk trade from Atlanta's perspective.

The Kovalchuk trade isnt a very fair barometer though. Kovy was UFA, and Nash is nowhere near.

[oconnellrules]

nash is a 60-70 pt player. given you probably get 38-40 goals a year (a couple jaw droppers too, ill give him that) but hes not elite enough to justify his cap hit. you just have to give up way too much in a trade for him.

let the rangers get him. hes a typical overpriced acquistion they make when theyre feeling good about their cup contention.

[insanity_gallops]

The Kovalchuk trade isnt a very fair barometer though. Kovy was UFA, and Nash is nowhere near.

Good point.

[Daniel]

The Kovalchuk trade isnt a very fair barometer though. Kovy was UFA, and Nash is nowhere near.

Right. Like I said, not a perfect comparison, but Columbus, like Atlanta, almost HAS to trade Nash at some point. Based on the rumors, it appears that teams are offering them a return similar to the Kovy trade.

[njdevil26]

To get Ryan or Nash, we'd have to include a player that hasn't appeared in any of our trade proposals yet... meaning we don't want to get rid of him. One of Zajac, Henrique, Larsson and so on would have to go the other way. Maybe not even Zajac since he's a UFA after this season.

The Devils depth at forward is absolutely non existent beyond the top nine or ten guys. Poni and Parise's spots need to be filled. Right now we are assuming that Tedenby will play and that's only because he's the best available forward the plug the hole. Then they need to find another player to avoid having Janssen or Barch play on a nightly basis. After Zajac, Henrique, Josefson, Gionta, the Devils have no other NHL centers. This season taught Lou and co that guys like Tim Sestito cannot be regulars on the NHL roster. Kovalchuk is not going to be traded, Elias and Zubrus aren't as attractive to other teams as they are essential here...

I wouldn't even be comfortable trading Clarkson... he's the only type of that player that we have.

I think the only logical route is to trade a defenseman (Tallinder/Greene) for a 2nd rounder to supplement whatever draft we give up the 1st rounder and then to sign Semin.

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Zubrus
Elias-Henrique-Semin
Tedenby/Sykora-Josefson-Clarkson
Carter-Gionta-Bernier

Volchenkov-Zidlicky
Tallinder/Greene-Larsson
Salvador-Fayne
Harrold

[Z-Man]

We're not getting Nash.

We're not getting Semin.

We're not getting Doan.

To think of any of these players coming to NJ is a pipe dream.

[overtime98]

As noted in the Alex Semin thread, I got a bit bored on the train, and my mind wandered thinking about a deal for Rick Nash. I'll do my best to avoid George Constanza-esque proposals to get Griffey and Bonds without having to give up all that much.

Before I begin though, my dream scenario is that the Rangers make a deal for Nash that includes one of their starting defenseman, preferably McDonough. Can you imagine them trying to last the whole season with three NHL caliber defensemen (they could get as high as five if Erixson and Wade Redden get called up).

Anyway, the deal I was thinking of was Greene/Tallinder, Josefson, this year's second and a first in either 2013-14 or 2014-15. One of Greene and Tallinder will likely be out the door anyway, so the two things I would lament on that front would be the fact that Lou gave Salvador that contract making one of them expendable and not knowing what else was out there (say trading one of them and Urbom/Gelinas for Sam Gagne).

So next year, the lineup looks like:

Kovy Henrique Nash
Elias Zajac Zubrus
Sykora Carter Clarkson
Gionta Bernier Harrold/Jannsen/Barch [Can Bernier, Barch, Gionta play center]

Fayne Tallinder/Greene
Zidlicky Larsson
Volchenkhov Salvador

I'm not that worried about Nash's contract. We were prepared to give much more to Parise, and you take off the money that we're not paying to one of the defenseman that's being traded and the pay raise that Josefson would be getting next year. The other requirement would be to lock up Zajac long term or trade him in a deal that includes a pretty good center.

I can't recall all of the proposed deals from other teams that have been rumored, but I think this is better than one of the rumored Ranger packages, which was McIllrath/Erixon, Dubinsky, JT Miller and a first. In my deal, they get two good NHL ready players -- one who has a lot potential in Josefson -- and an extra draft pick. The Ranger deal gets them an inconsistent but admittedly quality second/third line center who has more or less peaked (and rumored to have a drug problem), two prospects (I'm not that high on McIlrath who is injured anyway, Erixson will likely be good, JT Miller I know nothing about) and what Columbus will have to assume is a low first rounder. If necessary, the Devils could add one of Gelinas/Urbom/Tedenby.

All opinions welcome, just don't be a jerk about it.

RICK NAAAAASSSHHHH.... Section 233 supports RICK NASH!

Does Nash have an NMC or NTC?

Yes, but he wants out and willing to waive this.

Why would the Devils trade anyone when they could just sign Semin if they choose to.

Semin is going to penguins. 1 year deal. not confirmed yet.

In other words, you believe the price has dropped for Nash?

probably could be... Columbus asking too much...

[Daniel]

To get Ryan or Nash, we'd have to include a player that hasn't appeared in any of our trade proposals yet... meaning we don't want to get rid of him. One of Zajac, Henrique, Larsson and so on would have to go the other way. Maybe not even Zajac since he's a UFA after this season.

Henrique or Larsson would be a non-starter. In fact, I wouldn't include Merrill either. Zajac probably not too, although the idea becomes more palatable if the writing is on the wall that he won't be on the team next year.

To be clear, if I were a Blue Jacket fan, I would be furious with a deal that did not include any of those three players. However, Howson is in a bind, and it appears that all of his potential trade partners are not willing to part with a first line or potential first line forward or top pairing defenseman. The Sharks have refused to include Couture, the Rangers have refused to include Kreider or Stepan, the Flyers have refused to include Couturier and the Hurricanes have refused to include Skinner. It's against that backdrop that I would argue that my proposal is realistic enough, at least for purposes of a message board discussion.

[insanity_gallops]

I think the only logical route is to trade a defenseman (Tallinder/Greene) for a 2nd rounder to supplement whatever draft we give up the 1st rounder and then to sign Semin.

's what I've been saying! I like your thinking!

Nashville would be a perfect place to send Greene, but they don't have a 2nd rounder this year... they gave that up in their deal for Andrei "Partyboy" Kostitsyn. That leaves them with a 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder, and potentially two 4th rounders depending on whether Matthew Lombardi plays 60+ games this upcoming season for the Leafs.

Columbus could use a defenseman, whether it comes in the Nash deal or not, and they have a 2nd.

Dallas, St. Louis, and Winnipeg could all really use a guy like Greene, all have 2nd rounders.



...oops, off-topic, sorry.

[njdevil26]

Henrique or Larsson would be a non-starter. In fact, I wouldn't include Merrill either.

This is exactly why we have no shot at getting Nash. Almost the entire team is a UFA next season. The Jackets want young promising talent mixed with a roster player that is signed and a top 6 forward. The Devils don't have the signed top 6 forward and can't part with the young talent.

[njdevil26]

's what I've been saying! I like your thinking!

Nashville would be a perfect place to send Greene, but they don't have a 2nd rounder this year... they gave that up in their deal for Andrei "Partyboy" Kostitsyn. That leaves them with a 1st rounder, a 3rd rounder, and potentially two 4th rounders depending on whether Matthew Lombardi plays 60+ games this upcoming season for the Leafs.

Columbus could use a defenseman, whether it comes in the Nash deal or not, and they have a 2nd.

Dallas, St. Louis, and Winnipeg could all really use a guy like Greene, all have 2nd rounders.



...oops, off-topic, sorry.

I think this is exactly what Lou is trying to do as well. I noticed in his latest interview with either Chere or TG, the mentioned that having 8 NHL defensemen is a plus and it can "be used to get something else." We've come to look for those random hints from Lou and it tells me he's looking through the trade route right now. He's probably trying to find a trade using Tallinder/Greene to get a forward... maybe include Gelinas... or just Tallinder/Greene for a pick if he thinks he's signing Semin.

The Semin situation is just so odd. His agent is being belligerently silent if that makes sense.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

To think of any of these players coming to NJ is a pipe dream.

I don't think so. Of course we have no real idea what's going on financially, but given that Parise's offer was "competitive" and the Devils have a pretty large need for wingers I wouldn't be surprised if they acquired any of those players. Well maybe I'd be surprised by a Nash trade...

[Daniel]

This is exactly why we have no shot at getting Nash. Almost the entire team is a UFA next season. The Jackets want young promising talent mixed with a roster player that is signed and a top 6 forward. The Devils don't have the signed top 6 forward and can't part with the young talent.

Problem is, no one seems to be offering them that. For example, the Rangers appear to not be budging on what they've already offered, which is McIllrath (hurt and not that good) or Erixson (will be pretty good), JT Miller (don't know that much about), Dubinsky and a draft pick. I would argue that my proposed deal is comparable.

[Chuck the Duck]

Nash would fit in perfectly with Kovy and Zajac on the first line. However, we are never going to get him and I highly doubt we are on his select list of teams to which he'd accept a trade. Plus, his cap numbers are ridiculous and the cost in players going the other way is prohibitively high.

[njdevil26]

Problem is, no one seems to be offering them that. For example, the Rangers appear to not be budging on what they've already offered, which is McIllrath (hurt and not that good) or Erixson (will be pretty good), JT Miller (don't know that much about), Dubinsky and a draft pick. I would argue that my proposed deal is comparable.

Yes, but this is where the differences between the Kovy and Nash situations come to light. Atlanta had to trade Kovalchuk. They were going to lose him via free agency and they had so much going on internally that they almost had no choice. No one wanted to pay an expensive price for a rental like Kovalchuk. When was the last time a player of that caliber was available as a rental? Mix that in with a GM that doesn't do his research, and you find yourself trading for a defenseman in Oduya that had 1 point in 21 games, Bergfors who couldn't stick in the lineup, Cormier who almost killed someone, and a draft pick. Cormier is turning out to be not much and the ThrasherJets don't even have Bergfors or Oduya anymore.

Howson has the opportunity to keep Nash for as long as he wants. Once Semin signs somewhere he might get a few phone calls with GM's that are a little more desperate having lost out on Parise, Suter, Semin, AND possibly Ryan. I would also think right now that Bobby Ryan is bring in better trade offers given his age and smaller cap hit.

I'd be willing to go up to Greene, Tedenby, Gelinas, and a 1st for Nash OR Bobby Ryan plus a 2nd rounder from that team... Lou has proven he likes to get a draft pick back in a trade where he gives one up. But the fact that they are looking for Couture, Skinner, Kreider/Stepan, and players like that... the Devils might not even get any consideration unless Henrique is included or if the Devils are the only team left with an offer and Semin is signed somewhere and Bobby Ryan was traded.

Edited by njdevil26, 10 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[njdevil26]

double post.

( . Y . )

Edited by njdevil26, 10 July 2012 - 09:55 AM.