256 replies to this topic

[Triumph]

How can you say that when he just set himself up to be a Pred for the rest of his career? I don't think he has much of a preference, the guy just wants to get paid before the new CBA

Disagree - he obviously isn't totally against playing there, but he would clearly prefer Philadelphia - getting paid was the priority, but the contract is set up for Nashville to not match

[third man in]

You do not sign a contract for a team you do not want to play for...offer sheet or regular. And if you do, well you're a moron. Shea Weber isn't a moron, this is a win-win for him.

[Daniel]

In. Nashville was already horrible territorially last year. They were bailed out by their power play, luck, and Rinne. I wouldn't count on it continuing.

They were a good team last year based on the one stat that actually matters, wins/losses. And, what do you know, a lot of that followed from having two great players in Weber and Suter. "Bailed out by their power play"? That's about the equivalent of saying the Kings got "bailed out" by Kopitar in the playoffs. Guess what, power play goals count and help you win games. Same with the goalie.

"Luck" is just when a team performs better than the statistics predict.

ADDENDUM: If you want to truly measure "luck", you need to do a painstaking analysis of each significant event in every game. Most would be in agreement that Clarkson had a "lucky" year. We know that, not by looking at this stats, but actually watching him for the past four years, knowing what kind of player he is and what kind of skill set he has.

Edited by Daniel, 20 July 2012 - 01:55 PM.

[oconnellrules]

weber is one of the select few players in the NHL who actually are "worth" this kind of contract. this guy is such a beast. best defenseman in the game right now, IMO.

[oconnellrules]

also gotta hand it to holmgren. that guy has been putting his money where his mouth is since taking the reins in philly.
big stones on that guy.

[SMantzas]

also gotta hand it to holmgren. that guy has been putting his money where his mouth is since taking the reins in philly.
big stones on that guy.

I'd have big stones too if I had unlimited money at my disposal to throw at top FAs

[oconnellrules]

I'd have big stones too if I had unlimited money at my disposal to throw at top FAs

its ok. you have big beautiful stones anyway

[Triumph]

They were a good team last year based on the one stat that actually matters, wins/losses. And, what do you know, a lot of that followed from having two great players in Weber and Suter. "Bailed out by their power play"? That's about the equivalent of saying the Kings got "bailed out" by Kopitar in the playoffs. Guess what, power play goals count and help you win games. Same with the goalie.

Goalies are largely unpredictable, their power play was in the bottom 3rd in shots for, and they were one of the worst teams in shots for. I go over this every year and every year people want to dispute it - it's almost impossible to beat Fenwick year after year. Eventually, the hockey gods catch up. Nashville will have to improve territorially - which may happen, but is pretty unlikely given that they lost Suter and they haven't really acquired anyone who can play in their top 6 forwards or top 4 defense. I like some of their young players, but unless they get some different players, they're going to be in hot water.

"Luck" is just when a team performs better than the statistics predict.

ADDENDUM: If you want to truly measure "luck", you need to do a painstaking analysis of each significant event in every game. Most would be in agreement that Clarkson had a "lucky" year. We know that, not by looking at this stats, but actually watching him for the past four years, knowing what kind of player he is and what kind of skill set he has.

That's totally ridiculous. Closer examination certainly helps, but determining whether a thing is 'lucky' or 'not lucky' or what element of luck it has in it isn't going to help anything. The key is devising a framework in which luck can be quantified without having to watch the games to see whether or not a thing is 'lucky'. That's why I prefer the word 'chance' - getting a breakaway usually appears like a skill play, but it often involves a breakdown by the other team - constantly getting breakaways is not generally sustainable.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I am talking about Suter leaving, not Weber too. My issue was the comments about Weber not wanting to be part of a rebuild so he went to the Flyers. If he stays with the Preds, it isn't a rebuild. So, I think his agent is really insulting the entire organization.

Ah yeah the logic of the hypotheticals confused me. I think the Devils are better without Parise than the Preds without Suter (and Radulov) still. Devils are willing to pay more for players and have a strong Defense to trade players from if they have to. Obviously Weber in Nashville helps, but the Devils have many more assets than the Predators on their team, in terms of guys ready to play next year at a quality level. Weber is so good he might carry Nashville into the playoffs, it potentially depends on what happens re: realignment in the next CBA, I'd probably still bet on Nashville missing though. I certainly wouldn't expect them to contend for a title anytime soon, or win their division as currently designed. Under current divisions, Nashville is the 4th best team I'd say pretty clearly at this point (behind Det, STL, and Chicago). Maybe a term as loaded as "rebuilding" isn't appropriate for such a scenario, but that's basically what it is. The preds would be rebuilding around Weber and Rinne sort of like how the Canes have been rebuilding around Staal and Ward the last 3 years while pretending not to.

Regardless it seems like a lot of the people here want to believe the Predators aren't screwed because they feel they are kindred spirits with NJ, and don't want to believe NJ is screwed. NJ isn't screwed (at least according to their roster, owner's another story), although losing Parise hurts obviously. The Preds without Weber and Suter, and an ownership unwilling to spend money seem screwed to me though.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 20 July 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[SterioDesign]

also gotta hand it to holmgren. that guy has been putting his money where his mouth is since taking the reins in philly.
big stones on that guy.

yeah people here wont give him too much credit cause its the flyers and obviously he made some bad moves too... but when im seeing teams pulling moves like that im kind of jealous. He's very gutsy and creative.

[SterioDesign]

Pretty interesting article on how Weber's contract could be circumventing the CBA

http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

[Devils731]

Pretty interesting article on how Weber's contract could be circumventing the CBA

http://www.mcsorleys...-circumvention/

That guy just made up a bunch of suppositions that aren't true to try and make a case, IMO. None of that BS would fly.

Using the "spirit" rule to just say contracts I think are bad for the league violate the rule just isn't true.

Edited by Devils731, 22 July 2012 - 01:18 AM.

[SterioDesign]

That guy just made up a bunch of suppositions that aren't true to try and make a case, IMO. None of that BS would fly.

Using the "spirit" rule to just say contracts I think are bad for the league violate the rule just isn't true.

Yeah that guy was clearly wearing blinders and some of his points were pushing but its the offseason and i still found it somehow interesting... Anything against the flyers should be somewhat worth a look lol

[Devils731]

Yeah that guy was clearly wearing blinders and some of his points were pushing but its the offseason and i still found it somehow interesting... Anything against the flyers should be somewhat worth a look lol

Definitely, I hope I didn't come off like it shouldn't be posted, just throwing out my opinion on his opinion.

[SterioDesign]

Definitely, I hope I didn't come off like it shouldn't be posted, just throwing out my opinion on his opinion.

Haha no not at all it just made me realize that i should have stated that i was not really behind everything he was saying too and that im not necessarely approving what hes saying by posting it.

[SterioDesign]

per Darren Dreger the Preds have matched the offer !!! YES

http://predators.nhl...s.htm?id=638547

Edited by SterioDesign, 24 July 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[hargsy]

Good for the Preds...and us too !