208 replies to this topic

[Triumph]

I think that would be great for the Devils, I'm not sure Detroit would be into it. Unless they're down on Jurco I'd want to give up less than him as the extra piece.

Cleary is signed only through this season, Greene is signed for 2 more seasons beyond this one. Jurco is having a rough start to his pro career but he's the kind of skill player the Devils lack.

[thefiestygoat]

How about Dan Cleary + Tomas Jurco for Andy Greene?

Detroit currently looks something like this:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Samuelsson
Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi
Cleary-Helm-Tootoo
Miller-X-Eaves

But they have Damien Brunner, who crushes the Swiss league, and Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar in the minors. Cleary's no-trade has lapsed, and he seems like a perfect fit on the 3rd line.

I'd be down for that. Devils could really use a player like Cleary and getting a cost controlled prospect like Jurco makes giving up Greene a fair deal. Assuming everyone is healthy, I wouldn't mind something like:

Kovalchuk-Zajac-Butler
Henrique-Elias-Zubrus
Cleary-Josefson-Clarkson
Carter-Gionta-Bernier

[SterioDesign]

Cleary is signed only through this season, Greene is signed for 2 more seasons beyond this one. Jurco is having a rough start to his pro career but he's the kind of skill player the Devils lack.

The thing is and its gonna sound dumb... But the devils doesnt really need those highly skilled and dangling players. Our system is based on... Dump, chase, battle against the board, get puck to the point, point shot. Over and over and over and over... Same plays every times. Everything is calculated we rarely see really creative plays and crazy dangles around defenders in NJ. Cause everytime they get in the zone they slow down to settle they almost NEVER try to make a quick play off the rush other than on the PK.

We saw what happen to tedenby who obviously doesnt fit well in our system because of that so im not too sure jurco would be that much better

[Triumph]

The thing is and its gonna sound dumb... But the devils doesnt really need those highly skilled and dangling players. Our system is based on... Dump, chase, battle against the board, get puck to the point, point shot. Over and over and over and over... Same plays every times. Everything is calculated we rarely see really creative plays and crazy dangles around defenders in NJ. Cause everytime they get in the zone they slow down to settle they almost NEVER try to make a quick play off the rush other than on the PK.

That's silly. The Devils have had a ton of creative players past present and future on their team. I also don't believe that the Devils play dump and chase hockey -

It's a small sample, but someone studying the Flyers concluded that when Zac Rinaldo and Claude Giroux are able to enter the zone while carrying the puck at even strength, the results aren't too far off. The key is that Claude Giroux is just that much better at gaining the zone with the puck on his stick.

I feel that NHL defenses know this, and place a huge emphasis on not allowing teams to gain the zone with the puck, or if they do, not allowing them to gain the zone with speed. No one's gaining the zone all the time or making huge dangles - they're bad plays and bad gambles.

I can give you 5 goals from the playoffs that exhibited a high degree of skill and creativity.

We saw what happen to tedenby who obviously doesnt fit well in our system because of that so im not too sure jurco would be that much better

Tedenby has not had great success at any level of hockey since being drafted. Not in Sweden, not in the AHL, and not in the NHL. I don't believe that it has anything to do with systems - I just don't think Tedenby is that smart a player. With the puck, he's very good, but he has not learned how to play without it. Jurco might be the same, I don't know, but sometimes players figure it out.

[nessus]

I would be ecstatic if something like Tri's trade were to occur. I'm still not sure Greene alone would be enough to send both of those guys to NJ, though.

Aren't all of Fayne, Greene, Larsson, Tallinder, Salvador, Volchenkov, and Zidlicky healthy at the moment, or am I missing something? It seems that the consensus around here is that Lou isn't going to make a move until he sees how the team can play once the season starts, but I don't understand how he can do that with 7 defensemen signed. It really does not make any sense to me. I know I'm kind of stating the obvious here, but I really think that a trade has to happen this week unless there is something else we don't know.

Larsson better not be sent down to the AHL. Looks like they'll have to scratch someone if nothing happens before Saturday.

Edited by nessus, 14 January 2013 - 03:12 AM.

[SterioDesign]

That's silly. The Devils have had a ton of creative players past present and future on their team. I also don't believe that the Devils play dump and chase hockey

are you serious? dump, chase, forecheck. thats ALL they did in the playoffs, at least 90% of the time. it worked but i remember getting so mad and annoyed at them cause it was so fvcking boring eventhough they were winning.

also remember the Kings defence interference with our guys trying to reach the puck after dumping it, which led to us not having a great success there.

i mean youre knowledgable Tri and everything but i cant believe youre there telling me they didnt play dump and chase. lol

I can give you 5 goals from the playoffs that exhibited a high degree of skill and creativity.

i can give you a lot more than 5 goals based on dump, chase and forecheck.

Edited by SterioDesign, 14 January 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Triumph]

are you serious? dump, chase, forecheck. thats ALL they did in the playoffs, at least 90% of the time. it worked but i remember getting so mad and annoyed at them cause it was so fvcking boring eventhough they were winning.

also remember the Kings defence interference with our guys trying to reach the puck after dumping it, which led to us not having a great success there.

i mean youre knowledgable Tri and everything but i cant believe youre there telling me they didnt play dump and chase. lol

Everyone plays dump and chase. Everyone plays enter the zone with the puck, too. It depends on what the defense is giving you. Might the Devils have been better at dump and chase than most teams, therefore chose to do it more often? Yeah maybe, especially against the Flyers. But I can guarantee that if someone examined zone entries for the Devils they would find that Kovalchuk carries the puck into the zone more often than other Devils, and he was injured and basically unable to gain the zone with speed.

i can give you a lot more than 5 goals based on dump, chase and forecheck.

I can think of a ton of goals that were scored off the rush. I was just talking about plays that exhibited creativity.

[Daniel]

Everyone plays dump and chase. Everyone plays enter the zone with the puck, too. It depends on what the defense is giving you. Might the Devils have been better at dump and chase than most teams, therefore chose to do it more often? Yeah maybe, especially against the Flyers. But I can guarantee that if someone examined zone entries for the Devils they would find that Kovalchuk carries the puck into the zone more often than other Devils, and he was injured and basically unable to gain the zone with speed.



I can think of a ton of goals that were scored off the rush. I was just talking about plays that exhibited creativity.

It's always better if you can do both effectively. And you're usually left with what the defense gives you. I agree with Sterio though, with the eye test anyway, there was too much dump and chase at least on the powerplay.

Is Gomez at all effective anymore carrying the puck into the offensive zone?

[SterioDesign]

Everyone plays dump and chase. Everyone plays enter the zone with the puck, too. It depends on what the defense is giving you. Might the Devils have been better at dump and chase than most teams, therefore chose to do it more often? Yeah maybe, especially against the Flyers. But I can guarantee that if someone examined zone entries for the Devils they would find that Kovalchuk carries the puck into the zone more often than other Devils, and he was injured and basically unable to gain the zone with speed.



I can think of a ton of goals that were scored off the rush. I was just talking about plays that exhibited creativity.

so you said that you didnt think the Devils played dump and chase and then... said every teams play dump and chase...

thats another thing our defence was not giving much, i remember clearly our dmen in our zone simply dumping the puck around the red line just to be picked up by the other teams dmen coming right back at us... like all the time. Our breakouts and transitions was really not great either as soon we'd get possession of the puck in the neutral zone we'd dump it and would have to battle to get that possession again. So the guys were CONSTANTLY chasing, battling and trying to get the puck to make plays around the boards and VERY RARELY even trying to make plays down the middle or across. Too bad cause a bunch of our goals we're scored that way, when one of the guy would finally get out of the same routine.

i bitched all year about the guys not sending puck to the net from everywhere and they were really not, going around the net not even looking in front if there was someone... around the boards and to the point for a shot was the only thing they were looking for, and what do you know. The best and most important goal of the playoffs happened when Poni threw the puck at the net for that famous scramble.

[Triumph]

so you said that you didnt think the Devils played dump and chase and then... said every teams play dump and chase...

Teams take what they are given. What I am saying is that the Devils weren't dumping the puck in on odd-man rushes or breakaways. It wasn't a default strategy. It was taking what they were given.

thats another thing our defence was not giving much, i remember clearly our dmen in our zone simply dumping the puck around the red line just to be picked up by the other teams dmen coming right back at us... like all the time. Our breakouts and transitions was really not great either as soon we'd get possession of the puck in the neutral zone we'd dump it and would have to battle to get that possession again. So the guys were CONSTANTLY chasing, battling and trying to get the puck to make plays around the boards and VERY RARELY even trying to make plays down the middle or across. Too bad cause a bunch of our goals we're scored that way, when one of the guy would finally get out of the same routine.

i bitched all year about the guys not sending puck to the net from everywhere and they were really not, going around the net not even looking in front if there was someone... around the boards and to the point for a shot was the only thing they were looking for, and what do you know. The best and most important goal of the playoffs happened when Poni threw the puck at the net for that famous scramble.

Just blindly throwing the puck to the net can have all sorts of bad consequences. Yeah, that play worked, but as a rule just tossing the puck from the boards at the net is not generally a winning strategy.

[SterioDesign]

Teams take what they are given. What I am saying is that the Devils weren't dumping the puck in on odd-man rushes or breakaways. It wasn't a default strategy. It was taking what they were given.



Just blindly throwing the puck to the net can have all sorts of bad consequences. Yeah, that play worked, but as a rule just tossing the puck from the boards at the net is not generally a winning strategy.

is that why coaches are telling their players to send puck in Brodeur's feet all game long from anywhere? or keep hearing players saying mid period that they just have to send pucks to the net and work it off the rebounds and bla bla bla

[DH26]

is that why coaches are telling their players to send puck in Brodeur's feet all game long from anywhere?

that's just Brodeur specific though. Normally probably better to keep possession an cycle so there's less of an opportunity for a shot turning into a block or something and a breakout the other way

[Triumph]

is that why coaches are telling their players to send puck in Brodeur's feet all game long from anywhere? or keep hearing players saying mid period that they just have to send pucks to the net and work it off the rebounds and bla bla bla

They do? Could explain why Brodeur's save percentage is going up throughout the year if coaches are telling them to make a bad-percentage play all the time.

When players say 'get pucks to the net', they're not talking about shooting from the blueline or along the boards necessarily - they're talking about getting it to the front when there's opportunities. When you have a shot, don't look for a pass.

[Devils Pride 26]

I can almost guarantee that there is a move going to be made before the season starts, and here's why.

Lou blames a lot of 2010-11 on himself for having too many people on board at the start of the season. I'm too lazy to look up and try and find quotes now but I'm sure they could be found. Langenbrunner was hurt, players knew he was going to come back and someone was going to be shipped out. I doubt Lou rolls the dice in a similar situation.

[DH26]

They do?

I remember Jeff Marek saying something like putting pucks in his feet was the general gameplan vs Brodeur but I dunno about super low % shots or anything just aiming there instead of high or whatever

[Triumph]

I can almost guarantee that there is a move going to be made before the season starts, and here's why.

Lou blames a lot of 2010-11 on himself for having too many people on board at the start of the season. I'm too lazy to look up and try and find quotes now but I'm sure they could be found. Langenbrunner was hurt, players knew he was going to come back and someone was going to be shipped out. I doubt Lou rolls the dice in a similar situation.

He's already made it to this point, though. He had all summer to make a move - now there was probably inertia on the part of GMs waiting to see how things would shake out, but this situation has been present since about July 3 or whenever the Devils re-signed Salvador.

[Devils Pride 26]

Shoot, cross off the Oil as trade partners in need of D.


Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers
#Oilers acquire defenceman Mark Fistric from the Dallas Stars in exchange for a third-round selection in the 2013 #NHLDraft

[newarkdev01]

Seems like an odd arguement against "dump and Chase" like saying "clutching and grabbing" is bad. Quite frankly you do what works and is effective. The devils dumped and used an terrific forcheck to maintain pressure and create turnovers and MOST IMPORTANTLY, MAINTAIN PUCK POSSESSION. You heard this over and over during the playoffs in regards to SOG.

Your initial comment makes it sound as if we should apologize for when we dump it in but it doesn't mention we specificaly looked for what was the most likely to allow us to "keep the puck deep" and maintain pressure.

[ATLL765]

I remember Jeff Marek saying something like putting pucks in his feet was the general gameplan vs Brodeur but I dunno about super low % shots or anything just aiming there instead of high or whatever

Broduer, when he makes a save standing up, does awful when that puck is right in between his feet. I think that's why we've seen more of his butterfly lately than his stand up style. When he stays up to make a save and the puck drops quickly, the puck is uncovered for a split second until Broduer can get down on top of it. That's what they look for, I think when they say throw pucks at his feet.

This obviously doesn't work if the other goalie is a butterfly goalie, seeing as they don't make saves on their feet.

[Devils Pride 26]

Maybe the trade opens up a trade with the Stars? Unfamiliar with their blueline depth