56 replies to this topic

[nessus]

If im not mistaken, wasnt the offseason going into the 2010 season alot like this one, and then we got kovy? I think all that happened that offseason was we finally re-signed zajac, re-signed shanahan (even tho he retired after preseason) and hired lemaire. Finally lou signed the number 2 center we were all looking for.....robbie nieds! He turned out to be a bust as expected and later we got kovy. Maybe something similar will happen and we get iginla or something. Tedenby can be the bergfors, greene or tallinder can be the oduya, and then someone else like whitney can be the cormier. One can dream

I think something like this will end up happening. Perhaps not on the same scale (Iginla), but I really could see someone like Chris Stewart playing in New Jersey. He clearly is not working out in St. Louis and I am not convinced that he is just a bust that was overhyped. If he can put up numbers like he did just a year or two ago, he'd be a great RW for the first line, imo. If I recall correctly, St. Louis was using him on the third line.

Approaching playoffs:
Kovalchuk-Zajac-Stewart
Elias-Henrique-Zubrus
Tedenby/Sykora-Josefson-Clarkson
Carter-Gionta's Brother-Bernier


Also, excuse my other post in this thread, I was really tired and not able to type coherently. Sounds like it was written by a 10 year old. But I just meant that the improvements made at the end of last season (adding Zajac, Josefson, Zid, CBGB) were reflected in the playoff performance. You can't expect to get that far again with the same group minus the (arguably) best one.

[njd3b1ink]

Bergfors was actually having a decent rookie year...decent enough to trick Atlanta into thinking they had a solid prospect coming back to them. Tedenby's last season was dreadful...he'd have to have a Bergfors-type run as a Devils to get anyone to think he has any future as an NHLer.

The trade would only be plausible if teddy was actually playing decent or better. Bergfors played great the first 25 or so games, and then he fizzled out. Im sure many teams will be after iginla and unless the flames are in the playoffs i think he will finally get traded. I think he would be a great fit on our team. Yes hes older but he knows how to score, play D, and hes a RW

[TheMazz]

So basically the key to getting a Chris Stewart type player is all resting on the shoulders of Tedenby and if he plays amazing hockey for the first 25 or so games this season? That way we can use him along with a scrub prospect and a d-man that we don't need as trade bait?!

Sounds legit.

[njd3b1ink]

I get the feeling you are being sarcastic about this haha. I doubt the devils get an iginla but when the devils traded for kovy they got rid of a overpaid dman they didnt need, bergfors who overachieved for 20 games, and a nut case minor leaguer. I wouldnt say its impossible.

[nessus]

Oh I don't think Tedenby is getting traded if someone decent is coming back. When I said "something like this", I meant a trade for a potential first line forward. I do believe that one of Tallinder or Greene would have to be the centerpiece. It may sound ridiculous to some, but a healthy Andy Greene could match Stewart's 2011-2012 point production, or at least come close. And yeah, NJ does have a dman or two that they don't need, but there aren't many teams that have the D surplus that the Devils do. They could use that for a bit of leverage. I could see a trade happening sooner rather than later.

[Triumph]

The Devils have fvck-all for prospects right now. I think people forget that Kovalchuk was a rental - it was far from a foregone conclusion that he would stay. Not only was Kovalchuk a rental, but he was rented back when the salary cap meant something, and there were a lot of teams wary of taking on a player like that. That drove his cost down. If Iginla were suddenly being sold, the price would be much higher for him than it was for Kovalchuk, even though that wouldn't appear to make sense on its face.

Furthermore, the idea that Atlanta was hoodwinked into taking Bergfors - Bergfors put up some solid numbers in the minors, no one confused him for a star, but it feels like the reason he's not in the NHL right now has more to do with things outside his on-ice play.

Edited by Triumph, 02 August 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[njd3b1ink]

The Devils have fvck-all for prospects right now. I think people forget that Kovalchuk was a rental - it was far from a foregone conclusion that he would stay. Not only was Kovalchuk a rental, but he was rented back when the salary cap meant something, and there were a lot of teams wary of taking on a player like that. That drove his cost down. If Iginla were suddenly being sold, the price would be much higher for him than it was for Kovalchuk, even though that wouldn't appear to make sense on its face.

Furthermore, the idea that Atlanta was hoodwinked into taking Bergfors - Bergfors put up some solid numbers in the minors, no one confused him for a star, but it feels like the reason he's not in the NHL right now has more to do with things outside his on-ice play.

When the devils got Kovy the first thing i said was that he was a rental, but i also expected lou to try to re-sign him. When you give up 3 players and a draft pick you kind of need to retain that player. But regardless of that, if the devils are locked into a playoff spot come trade deadline time, why wouldnt lou try to make a move like that if it made sense? Ive said this many time but we were two wins away from a cup. We are only a piece or two away, and when your organization is that close the gm should be aggressive because that window could close after a year or two.

[Triumph]

When the devils got Kovy the first thing i said was that he was a rental, but i also expected lou to try to re-sign him. When you give up 3 players and a draft pick you kind of need to retain that player.

But regardless of that, if the devils are locked into a playoff spot come trade deadline time, why wouldnt lou try to make a move like that if it made sense? Ive said this many time but we were two wins away from a cup. We are only a piece or two away, and when your organization is that close the gm should be aggressive because that window could close after a year or two.

Because rentals are typically a bad idea. They're good when the pieces you sell off are extraneous - and those pieces largely were. The Devils had plenty of centers, and at the time, they had plenty of wingers on the roster. Do the Devils really miss anything from that deal besides the 1st round pick? No. This year, the Devils wrapped up 3 pieces of nonsense and 2 draft picks and sold them to Minnesota for Zidlicky. The Devils aren't really in that kind of spot anymore. They have lots of D prospects and to some degree that's it - and D prospects are a more uncertain thing than forwards. If they could get a piece for one of their D prospects, sure, great. But trading for a big name at the deadline is often a bad move, and it's almost certainly going to be a bad move with where the Devils are right now, organizationally.

[njd3b1ink]

Because rentals are typically a bad idea. They're good when the pieces you sell off are extraneous - and those pieces largely were. The Devils had plenty of centers, and at the time, they had plenty of wingers on the roster. Do the Devils really miss anything from that deal besides the 1st round pick? No. This year, the Devils wrapped up 3 pieces of nonsense and 2 draft picks and sold them to Minnesota for Zidlicky. The Devils aren't really in that kind of spot anymore. They have lots of D prospects and to some degree that's it - and D prospects are a more uncertain thing than forwards. If they could get a piece for one of their D prospects, sure, great. But trading for a big name at the deadline is often a bad move, and it's almost certainly going to be a bad move with where the Devils are right now, organizationally.

It doesnt necessarily have to be a huge name like iginla. Im just using him as an example cause hes the big fish this year most likely. What im getting at is that if getting an iginla would put us over the edge from being a normal playoff team to a bonafide cup contender then i would do it. If some one said "hey your team is ganna trade for so and so player and it will weaken your organization for a few years but this year you will win a cup" i would take it in a heart beat

[Triumph]

It doesnt necessarily have to be a huge name like iginla. Im just using him as an example cause hes the big fish this year most likely. What im getting at is that if getting an iginla would put us over the edge from being a normal playoff team to a bonafide cup contender then i would do it. If some one said "hey your team is ganna trade for so and so player and it will weaken your organization for a few years but this year you will win a cup" i would take it in a heart beat

The only way a team can acquire one player and go from 'normal playoff team' (whatever that is) to bonafide cup contender (again, assuming that we know what these things are) is by acquiring a goalie (and that's only if their current goalie is terrible). The addition of a highly skilled player can certainly make a team better, but the playoffs are a total crapshoot. Something like the Hossa deal worked out great for Pittsburgh even though they didn't win it all, but that's because the players they gave up weren't very good. The Devils acquired Kovalchuk, got some tough breaks, and were the first team eliminated from the 2010 playoffs.

The Devils can't afford to trade a 1st round pick. They can't afford to trade a forward. These things may change, but I doubt it. And if that continues to be the case it will be hard to cobble together anything for a significant trade.

Edited by Triumph, 02 August 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[njd3b1ink]

The only way a team can acquire one player and go from 'normal playoff team' (whatever that is) to bonafide cup contender (again, assuming that we know what these things are) is by acquiring a goalie (and that's only if their current goalie is terrible). The addition of a highly skilled player can certainly make a team better, but the playoffs are a total crapshoot. Something like the Hossa deal worked out great for Pittsburgh even though they didn't win it all, but that's because the players they gave up weren't very good. The Devils acquired Kovalchuk, got some tough breaks, and were the first team eliminated from the 2010 playoffs.

The Devils can't afford to trade a 1st round pick. They can't afford to trade a forward. These things may change, but I doubt it. And if that continues to be the case it will be hard to cobble together anything for a significant trade.

The kings trading for jeff carter put them over that edge. It gave them 3 solid lines and depth that they didnt have prior. Carter wasnt a beast in the playoffs but the depth his addition gave the team has value that is invaluable. It all depends on what the team is lacking and right now we are lacking a winger for the 1st or 2nd line.

[Triumph]

The kings trading for jeff carter put them over that edge. It gave them 3 solid lines and depth that they didnt have prior. Carter wasnt a beast in the playoffs but the depth his addition gave the team has value that is invaluable. It all depends on what the team is lacking and right now we are lacking a winger for the 1st or 2nd line.

Well, sure - but that is a once-in-a-decade ripoff that LA perpetrated. Obviously if a team offers one of their best forwards for our worst defenseman and a 1st round pick, you take the deal. If Phoenix offers Martin Hanzal for Anton Volchenkov and a 1st, sold, but that's not something to count on.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The Devils have fvck-all for prospects right now. I think people forget that Kovalchuk was a rental - it was far from a foregone conclusion that he would stay. Not only was Kovalchuk a rental, but he was rented back when the salary cap meant something, and there were a lot of teams wary of taking on a player like that. That drove his cost down. If Iginla were suddenly being sold, the price would be much higher for him than it was for Kovalchuk, even though that wouldn't appear to make sense on its face.

Furthermore, the idea that Atlanta was hoodwinked into taking Bergfors - Bergfors put up some solid numbers in the minors, no one confused him for a star, but it feels like the reason he's not in the NHL right now has more to do with things outside his on-ice play.

I think a lot of people do remember that Kovy was likely to be a rental, especially when $100 million was continually being mentioned before free agency started. Almost no expected Lou and the Devils to spend that kind of money...even now it still blows me away that they did it.

Re: Bergfors, I think the problem with Atlanta wasn't so much that they were "hoodwinked", I think it's more that they WERE thinking (or at least strongly hoping) that Bergfors could become a borderline star...though he did tail off with the Devils just before he was moved, he was having a very good rookie season...I'm sure Atlanta was looking at his production and thinking "He will only get better from here." The fact that he went on that nice little goal-scoring run right after going to the Thrashers probably solidified that belief. When that season ended, he had popped in 21 goals and added 23 assists in 81 GP...at that point, the Thrashers surely knew they didn't have a direct Kovalchuk replacement, but probably thought they had the beginnings of a solid player who could be counted on to provide some offense. I agree with you in that something happened with this guy that clearly turned teams off...he went from a guy getting 14-16 minutes of ice time a game who was showing promise to a guy who was moved twice, saw his ice time drop to 8 minutes a game with his final team, and was never given another shot. I didn't see him play with the Thrashers, Panthers, and Predators to see why it all crashed and burned so quickly, but clearly SOMETHING went horribly wrong with Bergfors for every NHL team to not want anything to do with him after the Predators put him on waivers. And yeah, though his on-ice play had obviously dropped from that 21 goal-23 assist campaign, pretty amazing that no one took a "What the hell, why not, won't cost us anything" approach with him. I'm guessing word got around that he had a lousy attitude, no work ethic, or both.

[Steadevils]

Everyone knows what Lou is going to do but is afraid to say it

Kovalchuk Zajac Henrique
ELIAS ARNOTT SYKORA
Zubrus Josefson Clarkson
Carter Gionta Bernier
Tedenby
Barch Janssen

Hahahaha. There was one thing I noticed while watching Tedenby's "highlights" from '10-11 (goal against the Islanders was sweet). But the thing I noticed was that many of his goals were while one particular large slow center was on the ice...One of the goals was an mirror of the Cup winning goal against Dallas except in this instance it was Arnott to Tedenby. The TAB line? Tedenby-Arnott-Bernier. Arnott to Devils E3.

[DevsMan84]

Hahahaha. There was one thing I noticed while watching Tedenby's "highlights" from '10-11 (goal against the Islanders was sweet). But the thing I noticed was that many of his goals were while one particular large slow center was on the ice...One of the goals was an mirror of the Cup winning goal against Dallas except in this instance it was Arnott to Tedenby. The TAB line? Tedenby-Arnott-Bernier. Arnott to Devils E3.

This is not confirmed, but from what I saw either on my twitter or Facebook the other day was that Arnott was rumored to be close to signing with Vancouver.

[nessus]

Triumph: I'm wondering what you realistically think should/could happen. Free agency seemed like the best option as far as giving the Devils a shot at a top 6 (ideally top 3) forward. The only names left that are interesting to me are Huselius and Kostitsyn (MAYBE Butler as well), both of which I'm neutral about getting assuming that they aren't expensive and that Huselius can play. I think a trade is probably the best option if I'm being realistic, but as you said, the Devils do not have the assets to make a decent trade right now. So what happens next? Do we just wait for the problem to fix itself? Or do the Devils look into somehow sending away one of their "accomplished" prospects (Gelinas, Urbom) for a forward prospect or two? Do they try to stock up on draft picks?

Going into the season, the forward lineup doesn't look terrible to me but any injury, whether it's Kovalchuk or Clarkson, can make things look really ugly when there isn't anyone adequate to bring up.

[Triumph]

Triumph: I'm wondering what you realistically think should/could happen. Free agency seemed like the best option as far as giving the Devils a shot at a top 6 (ideally top 3) forward. The only names left that are interesting to me are Huselius and Kostitsyn (MAYBE Butler as well), both of which I'm neutral about getting assuming that they aren't expensive and that Huselius can play. I think a trade is probably the best option if I'm being realistic, but as you said, the Devils do not have the assets to make a decent trade right now. So what happens next? Do we just wait for the problem to fix itself? Or do the Devils look into somehow sending away one of their "accomplished" prospects (Gelinas, Urbom) for a forward prospect or two? Do they try to stock up on draft picks?

Going into the season, the forward lineup doesn't look terrible to me but any injury, whether it's Kovalchuk or Clarkson, can make things look really ugly when there isn't anyone adequate to bring up.

With the lockout coming up, I don't think the Devils will make any significant moves. They could sign Sykora or a guy like Butler. The lockout will change the value of every player in the league, and I have to imagine that teams are waiting until then to make deals.