1718 replies to this topic

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Guys this means a deal won't be reached in two weeks but it remains very much on the horizon. This isn't like last lockout where the owners were trying to alter the entire structure of the league. This remains just a cash grab by the NHL owners. The only real issue (edit: not exactly) of contention is that the owners are trying to avoid honoring the contracts they have already agreed to. The NHLPA has every reason to fight that, and that seems like an issue that is not impossible to solve. This fight is no where near the same level as the salary cap fight.

The smart money remains on a face saving deal being reached within two months.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 18 October 2012 - 04:16 PM.

[DevsMan84]

. I'm not whining. I'm stating a fact. Neither side ever cares about the fans in sports labor situations. Its just the way it is. I've accepted it, because it's not gonna change, it doesn't matter what sport it is. Fans bitch and moan about not coming back to whatever sport- and some don't. But over time, the majority of fans forget about these things and still spend money on the NHL, or the NBA, or the NFL. This is what both sides count on, because they pretty much know it to be true. Which affords them the luxury of not giving a sh!t. They know sports fans are addicts who need their fix.

FWIW, before the 2005 lockout my family had season tickets from 91-03. We shared them with another family so I went to see about 20 games a year. In the 2003-04 season I probably went to about 15 games too buying individual tickets. After the lockout between 05-06 season and the 07-08 season, I went to a total of about 5 or 6 games and didn't watch nearly as much hockey as I used to or buy as much Devils merch as I used to. It basically took me 3 seasons to get me back into hockey as much as I had before the last lockout.

[NJDevs4978]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Fehr about to describe three proposals. No. 1: Would have fixed share in first three years. Share then frozen until hits 50% (Year 3 to 5).

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Says option 1 saves owners between $800M-1.1B. Sorry I missed numbers for second

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 2: Players will get 25% of any growth. Their share would hit 51% by Year 4 and 50% by Year 5 with 5% growth.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 3: "We'll move to 50-50 as long as you honour contracts." Players get 13% up front to cover those contracts.

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA was ready to give 50/50 if all actual signed contract will be paid at 100% with no escrow.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr says NHL rejected all 3 NHLPA proposals. Says NHL only willing to work off its Tuesday offer
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
Players offers fell to 50 percent over a five year term but sources say none guaranteed they'd get there. #NHL #NHLPA

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Worth noting:

@mirtle
Fehr says they haven't gotten to discussing issues beyond player share. Term limits etc. not touched (and still very contentious).

https://twitter.com/...039222676209665

I think that's really what pissed NHL off, as the NHLPA refuses to negotiate off NHL offer and concede ANY issues at all on this front.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 18 October 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[MadDog2020]

FWIW, before the 2005 lockout my family had season tickets from 91-03. We shared them with another family so I went to see about 20 games a year. In the 2003-04 season I probably went to about 15 games too buying individual tickets. After the lockout between 05-06 season and the 07-08 season, I went to a total of about 5 or 6 games and didn't watch nearly as much hockey as I used to or buy as much Devils merch as I used to. It basically took me 3 seasons to get me back into hockey as much as I had before the last lockout.

. And I'm sure there are more like you. There may be people that, if this drags on long enough, get so fed up they don't come back for a few years, if they ever do. But not enough to actually make a dent in the $3 billion pie that both sides actually learn something and don't pull this sh!t again in 7 years, I can almost guarantee it.

[DevsMan84]

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Fehr about to describe three proposals. No. 1: Would have fixed share in first three years. Share then frozen until hits 50% (Year 3 to 5).

Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
Says option 1 saves owners between $800M-1.1B. Sorry I missed numbers for second

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 2: Players will get 25% of any growth. Their share would hit 51% by Year 4 and 50% by Year 5 with 5% growth.

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
PA option No. 3: "We'll move to 50-50 as long as you honour contracts." Players get 13% up front to cover those contracts.

Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA was ready to give 50/50 if all actual signed contract will be paid at 100% with no escrow.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Fehr says NHL rejected all 3 NHLPA proposals. Says NHL only willing to work off its Tuesday offer
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
Players offers fell to 50 percent over a five year term but sources say none guaranteed they'd get there. #NHL #NHLPA

If true, this at least gives me some hope. Not quite as bad as I expected these to be but easily not something the NHL will accept at face value.

[Zubie#8]

They cant get to 50-50 if they honor each existing contract, its impossible.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

They cant get to 50-50 if they honor each existing contract, its impossible.

Well Vanderbeek certainly hopes he doesn't have to. Kovalchuk's contract (http://capgeek.com/player/339) was clearly designed with the hope that the next CBA would enable some salary cut backs.

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah the owners would basically have to write a check out of their own pockets to accomplish that, which makes a mockery of the paper 50-50.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I believe all of the NHLPA's offers were reasonable if we are to believe Fehr. The fact that the NHLPA isn't negotiating off the NHL's proposal is what seems to irritate the owners. I don't think the NHL is necessarily going to win this round of the PR war. Bettman's reaction given what Fehr presented seems childish at worst, and posturing at best. There was some good stuff to negotiate off of there, storming out of the meeting and canceling chunks of the season (believed to happen tomorrow) I think will not help them in the PR battle.

When you get right down to it, the fact that the players are fighting to have their previous contracts upheld, and the owners are fighting to have them cut is not going to sit right with the public I think. No matter how badly they want hockey.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 18 October 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Zubie#8]

NHLPA's offer is not fair, they are making assumptions with crazy growth rate predictions and they are saying it will be 50-50 split when it is impossible when they want all existing contracts to be honored, its a joke!

[devlman]

I was on the PA's side but they clearly don't care to really get a deal done.. Screw the players

Yup

[Triumph]

NHLPA's offer is not fair, they are making assumptions with crazy growth rate predictions and they are saying it will be 50-50 split when it is impossible when they want all existing contracts to be honored, its a joke!

Haha, so those NHL council creeps got to you too

[mackchi]

This isn't baseball. The public was outraged over that strike and the loss of the 1994 World Series. It was the lead story on the newscasts every night. Moreover, a large majority of team owners were losing way too much money to let it keep going. Therefore, the owners eventually caved. In hockey, the money just isn't there for 22 of the 30 teams to cave into the player's demands and, quite frankly, nobody in the US outside us core die hard fans gives a sh!t about the NHL to put pressure on the owners and players to get this resolved. Hell, the NHL lockout has only gotten like 42 seconds of coverage on ESPN since September 15.

The players have no leverage here and they, along with the fans, are going to lose again when this gets resolved (and the players take a deal largely based upon the one they just rejected), probably sometime in September of 2013.

I was so pissed off at MLB back in 94 that I have never,ever gone back to a game. I vowed to never spend a dime on MLB again. I was a HUGE fan of baseball. That's why it hurt so much when they cancelled the World Series.

I have become a one sport person and that is Hockey. I played, my kids have played all the way up through college etc. This really hurts. I am on the brink of taking another vow and ask for my Season tickets money back. I endured the last lockout but this is getting old.

[Zubie#8]

Haha, so those NHL council creeps got to you too

You are probably correct. I am just very frustrated.

[njdjlc]

I was so pissed off at MLB back in 94 that I have never,ever gone back to a game. I vowed to never spend a dime on MLB again. I was a HUGE fan of baseball. That's why it hurt so much when they cancelled the World Series.

I have become a one sport person and that is Hockey. I played, my kids have played all the way up through college etc. This really hurts. I am on the brink of taking another vow and ask for my Season tickets money back.  I endured the last lockout but this is getting old.

That would be me too. I used to like baseball but have not been to a major league game since 94.  I did go to a Long Island Ducks game once and it was so slooow that I realized why I am a "one sport" person. But this is getting old. Too many people who are supposed to be adults acting like children that don't play well in the sandbox and probably never will.  My daughter is ready to kill me since I have no hockey and I have nothing to watch.  I think curling is looking real good

[Devils Pride 26]

This is so frustrating, mainly because the players are dragging this out. We know they eventually will cave because they have to, it's just a matter of how much they give up. The owners largely can be fine without the NHL, some small market guys operating at a loss might even be doing better. But the players cannot survive a permanent lockout.

The players have already lost, it's now a matter of how much they are going to lose.
------------
To go further, everyone excited, relied up and pissed off by this helps and will allow both sides to carry on further with a lockout. The worst thing that could happen for the league is more everyone to get apathetic, that's when they are really in trouble - then you start to wonder how substantial the interest loss will be.

[SMantzas]

By accepting the CBA, the players lose 1.66 billion over the WHOLE term. By losing a season, they lose out on 1.74 billion for just this year

[DevilMinder]

I am already getting ambivalent about the NHL, I have begun to think of post NHL life. They better make this next CBA a decade long because that is how long it will take me to forgive them.

[Devils Pride 26]

By accepting the CBA, the players lose 1.66 billion over the WHOLE term. By losing a season, they lose out on 1.74 billion for just this year

Wow, any source on this?