1718 replies to this topic

[Chuck the Duck]

Fehr is good at his job. But the owners will tell you that so is Bettman. He does their bidding and does it well...that's why he won't get fired anytime soon despite the fact that everyone outside of the owners generally hate him.

Someone has to flinch first. Give Fehr credit for keeping the NHLPA so organized and galvanized through these negotiations. I still hate him though...but I hate Bettman more.

[95Crash]

That the league hasn't walked away completely after Fehr's hardball tactics and pessimistic statements to the press leads me to believe the owners are pretty desperate to get the seasons started. For all of the grief he gets, Fehr is very good at his job.

Which or course is why the players hired him.

It sucks for us, the fans, but if I was player, I too would want the best representing me in negotiations, not some guy who was going to get walked all over by the owners.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Fehr is very good at his job.

Yeah I've been very impressed. He successfully determined the league wants to start the league back up by around december and the league earlier was just maneuvering to try and negotiate with the upper hand (i.e. with the players missing game checks every week). The fact that the league is supposedly frustrated by Fehr's "lack of urgency" tells me they are basically annoyed he's got the NHLPA united behind him so they aren't pressuring him to take a bad future deal to get game checks today. There are also reports the league is scared Fehr wants to miss the season so he can challenge the salary cap which is not a credible threat but that the league believes it means he's managed to find some leverage in a situation where he basically has almost none.

[eldon]

Yea, they're both so good at their jobs, it's mid-November and the rinks are dark. The least popular of the mainstream sports sinks further into oblivion. Great job all!

[devilsfan26]

Yea, they're both so good at their jobs, it's mid-November and the rinks are dark. The least popular of the mainstream sports sinks further into oblivion. Great job all!

Their job here is to get the best deal for their side, starting the season on time isn't the top priority. Sucks for us, but that doesn't mean they're bad at what they do.

[NJDevs4978]

Their job here is to get the best deal for their side, starting the season on time isn't the top priority. Sucks for us, but that doesn't mean they're bad at what they do.

Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time?

Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout.

[Marshall]

Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time?

Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout.

Because a lock out isn't that unattractive to the owners since they, at least until a month or so ago, knew they'll get a good-to-great deal.

[DevsMan84]

At this point I wish Steve Fehr and Bill Daly were doing the negotiating instead of Bettman and D. Fehr. At least they seem optomistic and want to get this deal done.

[Daniel]

Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time?

Yeah I know it's not the players' responsibility to be playing when they're being locked out, but part of the perview of the league is to grow the game. The game can't grow if they keep having to recover from lockout after lockout.

NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens.

[Chuck the Duck]

NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens.

You are dead on. Unfotunately, this is the way it goes with collective bargaining. It happens in sports, as well as everything from auto workers to airline stewards. As fans, we get caught in the middle.

[NJDevs4978]

NBA didn't start on time twice I believe. NFL at one time lost a large chunk of its season. MLB cancelled the World Series. It happens.

MLB canceled the World Series in 1994, 18 years ago. The NFL last lost games in 1987. Everything but the NBA (who lost 30 and 16 games in its two work stoppages, no playoff games though) you're talking about was a generation ago. This is a major lockout EVERY SEVEN YEARS in this sport, basically a seven-year lockout itch the owners get.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 12 November 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[Triumph]

MLB canceled the World Series in 1994, 18 years ago. The NFL last lost games in 1987. Everything but the NBA (who lost 30 and 16 games in its two work stoppages, no playoff games though) you're talking about was a generation ago. This is a major lockout EVERY SEVEN YEARS in this sport, basically a seven-year lockout itch the owners get.

The NFL doesn't lose games because NFL players have such a short career + NFL seasons are so short that losing one game is catastrophic for players and owners. Easy to come to terms there, although they did lose the Hall of Fame game in 2011.

The NBA will prosecute the NHL's strategy, as they did last time, until the end of time. I don't see any reason why they won't, but there must've been a CBA in between 1999 and 2011 that was signed without issue.

The issues the NHL have are more difficult - it doesn't have a great national TV contract, which puts the onus on individual teams to survive at the gate. Almost half the league is now playing in another league, meaning there isn't enormous pressure on the players to settle. And NHL fans are more die-hard - only NHL fans really missed hockey in 2005, and they walked right back in. Furthermore, the NHL keeps putting the date of the expiration of the CBA at September 15th, rather than over the summer like the NBA did (or in April, as the NFL did).

[devilsfan26]

Then how come other leagues can start on time without all this bs every single time?

My point is that just because they haven't reached an agreement doesn't mean they are bad at their jobs. Whether or not they did a good job is going to be based on how good the CBA is for their side, not how soon they came to an agreement.

[Zubie#8]

Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
Daly tells Phila Inquirer sides r "very far apart. The players are asking for guaranteed dollars + a 'raise' year-over-year." #NHL #NHLPA

Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
Bill Daly told CSN that the NHLPA's latest offer would have the players making 65% of the HRR in Year 1 of the deal. #HireMediator

Edited by Zubie#8, 13 November 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[DevsMan84]

At this point I do not know who to believe.

Both sides can go to hell.

[Triumph]

Considering the NHL's claim about Fehr not informing the players in a timely fashion of what's going on got shot down hard, the obvious second move is to call Fehr irrational like he's incapable of bargaining, and I expect most hockey fans who are paying attention to this to fall for it. When of course, had Make Whole + a gradual decrease to 50% been talked about around September 15th, it could have worked, maybe.

[Vic Rattlehead18]

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[DevsMan84]

I have good news! Rita's has replace carvel as the ice cream of choice at prudential center

Well at least that is good news lol.

[NJDevs4978]

Considering the NHL's claim about Fehr not informing the players in a timely fashion of what's going on got shot down hard, the obvious second move is to call Fehr irrational like he's incapable of bargaining, and I expect most hockey fans who are paying attention to this to fall for it. When of course, had Make Whole + a gradual decrease to 50% been talked about around September 15th, it could have worked, maybe.

This amuses me, for two reasons. One, they happen to be right in this case - Fehr doesn't negotiate. He bullies, litigates and outsmarts the other side but negotiating isn't in his vocabulary. Baseball needed freaking Congress to get involved just to get real drug testing, never mind splitting billions of dollars.

In general though, BOTH sides are full of **it. Acting like only one side lies and plays PR games is like Republicans saying the Dems won't compromise and are scoundrels without acknowledging they pull the same crap too and vice-versa. I'm just tired of all these stupid PR games that nobody gives a crap about. Stop posturing and start negotiating.

[Chuck the Duck]

The charade being played by both sides is so obvious and sickening, neither one can be looked at favorably in these negotiations any longer. Pretty much, they both have been steadfast in their positions and are simply waiting for the other side to break. Neither side seems willing to actually negotiate in good faith at this point, which is the most frustrating part.

I am completely past the point of caring about this process any longer. Someone call me when its over.