1718 replies to this topic

[SMantzas]

But why does one guy seem to have directed/controlled these negotiations so much up to this point?

He's probably the figurehead representing a larger coalition of owners

[NJDevs4978]

He's probably the figurehead representing a larger coalition of owners

Not to mention Bettman's mouthpiece and the BOG head.

[DevilMinder]

@TSNBobMcKenzie
I can tell you there's a hugely negative vibe emanating from both sides right now. Keeping this process on rails today will be challenging.



Man, trying not to read into every little heart beat but the comments on twitter right now are debbie downers.

[Devilsfan118]

Well the negativity was expected. It seemed too good to be true.

[DevsMan84]

So we should take his word on it because he feels some "vibe" going on?

I think we are in the home stretch and this sh!t is supposed to be tough.

['7']

I'm not sure how big a coalition of hardline owners there actually are, but we do know who is leading the cabal. I remember back in 2004 we had the "gang of 6" (or was it 8?)

What's encouraging is other owners speaking up at least, and not letting Jacobs completely throw this thing off the rails. Would like to see Jacobs thrown himself onto some sort of bed of railroad spikes

[Triumph]

So we should take his word on it because he feels some "vibe" going on?

I think we are in the home stretch and this sh!t is supposed to be tough.

Agreed. Both sides should be trying to put out a message that things are not going well. But they're still meeting.

[redruM]

This whole process is mindnumbing....
either cut as deal or don't, but enough of the roller coaster ride...

['7']

This whole process is mindnumbing....
either cut as deal or don't, but enough of the roller coaster ride...

The roller coaster ride is for the media, basically if you read between the lines there is plenty of positives(the owners making concessions and negotiating in good faith)...but both sides will still put out negative leaks on the other just to keep the heat on.

Edited by '7', 06 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[jim777]

Evidently Bettman is surprised by the popularity of the lockout

http://www.theonion....l-lockou,29921/

[MadDog2020]

Looks like all of us who assumed contract limits were just a red herring to get other concessions in HRR, etc (including me) were wrong, it still remains a huge issue apparently with the league not budging from 5 years as a base for FA's, other than the exception that current teams can go up to 7 years, a bit of a knockoff of the NBA's system.

And now the players want to lift the restrictions on who's in the room (i.e. hello Don and Gary again). This is either going to blow up today or get done once and for all I think. It nearly blew up last night with - surprise, surprise - Jacobs threatening to walk out of the room before the moderate owners stopped that. But I don't like all these detailed leaks coming out now, it smacks of the PR grabs that have poisoned the process throughout.

. It'll blow up. You KNOW it'll blow up. Everytime the NHL is in position to fvck something up in the worst way, they usually do. Only the NHL can go from all the optimism of Tuesday to this in 48 hours. I expect yet another bullsh!t news conference later saying "how disappointed" they all are that they were too fvcking stupid to agree to something.

[NJDevs4978]

. It'll blow up. You KNOW it'll blow up. Everytime the NHL is in position to fvck something up in the worst way, they usually do. Only the NHL can go from all the optimism of Tuesday to this in 48 hours. I expect yet another bullsh!t news conference later saying "how disappointed" they all are that they were too fvcking stupid to agree to something.

In hindsight it looks like the podium went up precisely because it was that close to going off the tracks. With Don and Gary back in the room, I'm in full panic/frustration mode now, especially with the remaining mountain of the owners shoving in contract limits while the players are already positioning themselves for 'next' time by demanding a 5-year agreement to coincide with the NHL's 100th anniversary. What horse**** from both sides, AS USUAL.

[MadDog2020]

In hindsight it looks like the podium went up precisely because it was that close to going off the tracks. With Don and Gary back in the room, I'm in full panic/frustration mode now, especially with the remaining mountain of the owners shoving in contract limits while the players are already positioning themselves for 'next' time by demanding a 5-year agreement to coincide with the NHL's 100th anniversary. What horse**** from both sides, AS USUAL.

. The fact the players sit here and tell everyone how they hate being locked out and not playing, and how they care about the long-term health of the game, and then they demand a 5-year CBA? A shorter CBA than the one that just expired, knowing FULL WELL that it coincides with the league's 100-year anniversary? This tells me they have no regard for the long-term health of the game, or any desire for long-term labor peace. How much you wanna bet they strike in that case, just to piss in the owners' cheerios for locking them out 3 times in 18 years? And round n round we go...

[Triumph]

. The fact the players sit here and tell everyone how they hate being locked out and not playing, and how they care about the long-term health of the game, and then they demand a 5-year CBA? A shorter CBA than the one that just expired, knowing FULL WELL that it coincides with the league's 100-year anniversary? This tells me they have no regard for the long-term health of the game, or any desire for long-term labor peace. How much you wanna bet they strike in that case, just to piss in the owners' cheerios for locking them out 3 times in 18 years? And round n round we go...

Yeah they're getting so much out of this agreement - let's see, their salaries are reduced, contracts limited more, NHL revenues were of course, growing massively even in the face of an economy that was stagnant - I wonder why they want a short agreement?

There will never be another sports labor strike again - well, MAYBE in baseball, but certainly not anywhere else.

Edited by Triumph, 06 December 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

This whole process is mindnumbing....
either cut as deal or don't, but enough of the roller coaster ride...

The roller coaster ride comes from twitter. Before there wasn't nearly as much being put out there, so there's so much noise you have to sift through to try and figure out what's going on. I'd be lying though if I said I didn't find this whole thing somewhat entertaining. The gamesmanship involved in high stakes negotiation has been enjoyable to follow, if somewhat frustrating.

Yeah they're getting so much out of this agreement - let's see, their salaries are reduced, contracts limited more, NHL revenues were of course, growing massively even in the face of an economy that was stagnant - I wonder why they want a short agreement?

I guess I get this argument, but if the owners have the leverage every time a CBA expires, why would you want more CBA expirations? After this CBA gets signed there will still be teams struggling and there will be another lockout. Hell there was a lockout in the NFL and that's the most successful sports league in America by far. Other than the whole 5 years = 100 year anniversary plan I don't get the appeal of a short CBA for the players. Unless lockout fatigue actually affects revenue this time (I remain skeptical it truly will, the regular season is too long anyway people will forget about this just like the NBA fans did) and the players get some leverage it seems like a mistake.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 06 December 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[thefiestygoat]

I wish Parros would take Jacobs and Bettman for a "chat" in an alley outside the building.

[capo]

The players conceded way too much in the last cba and they still made out because of the long term contracts. If they give up on the contract length they have nothing left to bargain for. Unions know once you let something go it is gone for good. The players should stop working for these scumbags and bring back the WHA!

[NJDevs4978]

Contract length affects exactly 5% of players though...this isn't anywhere near equivalent to accepting a cap.

Of course Fehr succeeding in torpedoing this AGAIN, what a shock. I didn't think it was possible to have more disdain for anyone than Bettman but I was wrong, at least Bettman only sunk one sport, Fehr's going for a double play.

Next stop, courts and litigation just like I feared.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 06 December 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[capo]

Contract length affects exactly 5% of players though...this isn't anywhere near equivalent to accepting a cap.

Of course Fehr succeeding in torpedoing this AGAIN, what a shock. I didn't think it was possible to have more disdain for anyone than Bettman but I was wrong, at least Bettman only sunk one sport, Fehr's going for a double play.

Next stop, courts and litigation just like I feared.

True, but it was the way players were able to still get paid under the old cba. The owners just want to fvck the players.

[Triumph]

Contract length affects exactly 5% of players though...this isn't anywhere near equivalent to accepting a cap.

Of course Fehr succeeding in torpedoing this AGAIN, what a shock. I didn't think it was possible to have more disdain for anyone than Bettman but I was wrong, at least Bettman only sunk one sport, Fehr's going for a double play.

Next stop, courts and litigation just like I feared.

I don't know why you continue to believe what journalists are reporting. Bettman had a huge win sewn up here - the question is, how much does he want this win? Fehr's going to see how much he wanted it. Because right now what's leaked out about the deal the players were going to sign, everything about it sucks relative to the last CBA. Why should the union take that deal other than 'we want/need to play?'

Edited by Triumph, 06 December 2012 - 05:20 PM.