1718 replies to this topic

[Triumph]

They wouldn't still be meeting if they had DOI'ed the season away. It was always a player-hyped artificial deadline anyway.

A disclaimer of interest would not end the season. And they can still do it.

[NJDevs4978]

A disclaimer of interest would not end the season. And they can still do it.

If they were going to do it they should have done it earlier, the way the NBAPA did, and not challenge a deadline that may or may not be artificial. Even if they believe Jan. 11 isn't a 'real' drop dead date, challenging it so blatantly like a DOI would is a reckless gamble. And if it is a false date and they get called on it, it's the dumbest gambit ever by the NHL, because there's no reason to ever believe another drop-dead date after it - that's why I don't believe they'd fake it. It's too detrimental to the process if they do and get called on it.

The fact the PA hasn't DOI'ed this late leads me to believe they aren't going to do it anyway, that they'd rather preserve their option to outright decertify if the season does get canceled. They wouldn't win a DOI in court regardless, not with all the public posturing about it.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[SterioDesign]

how can they be still far apart after ALL THAT TIME negotiating it's ridiculous

[Triumph]

If they were going to do it they should have done it earlier, the way the NBAPA did, and not challenge a deadline that may or may not be artificial. Even if they believe Jan. 11 isn't a 'real' drop dead date, challenging it so blatantly like a DOI would is a reckless gamble. And if it is a false date and they get called on it, it's the dumbest gambit ever by the NHL, because there's no reason to ever believe another drop-dead date after it - that's why I don't believe they'd fake it. It's too detrimental to the process if they do and get called on it.

It's absolutely a false date. I wouldn't hesitate at all to challenge it if I thought the NHL had much more left in it, but I don't think the NHL is going to bend significantly even after it goes past that date.

The fact the PA hasn't DOI'ed this late leads me to believe they aren't going to do it anyway, that they'd rather preserve their option to outright decertify if the season does get canceled. They wouldn't win a DOI in court regardless, not with all the public posturing about it.

Fehr has mentioned absolutely nothing about a disclaimer of interest. Bettman claims the union has never mentioned it in negotiations. I see no reason why it isn't valid.

[Steadevils]

There was once a dream that was NHL hockey. You could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish... it was so fragile. And I fear that it will not survive the winter.--Maximus Aurelius

[newarkdev01]

Well I think both parties reailze what they are up against is the money they will lose the longer this goes on. Regardless what the actual "drop dead" date is you still only have so much time to have a legitimate 52,48,42 game season and every game lost is revenue lost for both sides.

[SterioDesign]

so they are voting again for the disclaimer? thats ridiculous godamnit stop those fvcking chicken games and just get something done bunch of retards

[Triumph]

so they are voting again for the disclaimer? thats ridiculous godamnit stop those fvcking chicken games and just get something done bunch of retards

It's not ridiculous, according to reports coming out now, the tone of the NHL totally changed after the deadline.

[DevilMinder]

That has to be very disturbing to the PA. I'd imagine the fool me once proverb is going to make them go full speed ahead with the new Disclaimer of interest and call the NHLs Jan 11th bluff.

[Devils731]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
League source says all "changes" to Article 50 were highlighted and flagged and the union has had docs for a week.

[Triumph]

Were I part of the union, I wouldn't be upset that the league tried to change the rules for penalties for poor reporting of HRR last night (assuming that Dreger the water carrier is being told the truth) - I'd be concerned that they would try to change them at all.

[NJDevs4978]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
League source says all "changes" to Article 50 were highlighted and flagged and the union has had docs for a week.

Yeah just another attempt by Fehr and the hard-liners to whip up negativity toward the league, and by god it's working. I mean it was beyond dumb of the league to do 'two' different bait and switches (the pension and now this) too, but I'm more convinced than ever Fehr doesn't want a deal considering the way this was handled.

Both sides can't resist going deeper and deeper into the mud There needs to be a total cleansing of Bettman and the PA leadership after this. I don't care if the CBA's five years if they get new leadership on both sides, but if they have an 8-10 year CBA and it's still Bettman-Fehr it's going to be more of the same next time, or worse.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[thefiestygoat]

@SpectorsHockey
"#NHL mediation will continue tomorrow at 10 am ET. No statement due from #NHL tonight on status of CBA talks."

Edited by thefiestygoat, 03 January 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[NJDevs4978]

That has to be very disturbing to the PA. I'd imagine the fool me once proverb is going to make them go full speed ahead with the new Disclaimer of interest and call the NHLs Jan 11th bluff.

If it's even true the league 'changed its tone' after the decert deadline. I'm still skeptical about that being anything more than another PR move to rally the union in collective disdain for the league, I mean they met for less an hour after that and that was it. There were no meetings of any substance today, other than smaller groups on HRR and pensions.

[Triumph]

If it's a 10 year CBA, Bettman will be 70 during the next negotiation, and Fehr will be 74. I wouldn't be surprised if Fehr stepped down in 1-2 years anyway, so long as he had a worthy successor picked out. Bettman's already been rumored to be in ill health, I doubt he'll make it to the next CBA as commissioner either.

And yes 4978, I'm sure that the league knows nothing about leverage and is still continuing to negotiate in good faith. PS, Dreger reported that the union gave Fehr full authority to disclaim last night and he didn't do it.

Edited by Triumph, 03 January 2013 - 09:26 PM.

[NJDevs4978]

It ain't getting to ten with this group, someone's opting out. There's just too many hardliners and ill will on both sides.

I've never heard that about Bettman, but I think it'll wind up being a 7-8 year CBA and he'll only be as old as Stern was last year when he had his last labor war. Don won't be running the union outright but he'll no doubt be a shadow advisor to Steve the way Marvin Miller was for him.

What leverage...you said yourself the DOI was a phony deadline and they could do it anytime. They must be having these sham votes to look good for court since they don't actually need to vote on DOI, but they're not going to win in court. Not after two months of players tweeting about disclaimer, Fehr's own cryptic comments about 'how other labor negotiations have gone' when asked about DOI/decert after the early December blowup, and the fact they're DOI'ing right at the deadline. Yeah that's real genuine and not a negotiating tactic lol...especially when it's done a few days right after it isn't done.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[DevilMinder]

I was looking at the old 2005 cancelled season to compare notes. First it's funny how little minute to minute details there were (no twitter), second up until Bettman literally said no season we all had some faith they would get it done. That date was Feb 16 1 pm .


http://www.njdevs.co...ic=17409&st=220

Sheeps: You know what the worst part is? Everybody's saying they were squabbling over $6.5 million. It was LESS than that. Including bonuses, the NHL offer totaled $44.7 million, while the PA offer, including bonuses, totaled $49 million.

That's $4.3 million. Or less than 10% of either proposal.

Hmm... 5 million range.. that sounds familiar.

[NJDevs4978]

I was looking at the old 2005 cancelled season to compare notes. First it's funny how little minute to minute details there were (no twitter), second up until Bettman literally said no season we all had some faith they would get it done. That date was Feb 16 1 pm .


http://www.njdevs.co...ic=17409&st=220

Really the '95 one would be more comparable than '04, since it's more or less been documented the sides didn't even talk for months...though I guess you're right, we were blissfully ignorant to a degree.

'95 there was some bad blood and an ugly last-minute deal but this year's taken it to a whole new level. Twitter and all these false rumors/planted leaks don't help, but neither does having the ultimate league hard-liner against the ultimate PA hard-liner, who both know how to use every slimy trick in the book.

In hindsight the league should have run to a $49 million de-linked cap. They wanted linkage after the season blew up though and opened up another set of problems I love reading their foolhardy reasoning for not doing it 'if every club spent to the max player compensation would exceed last year'. As if that was going to happen.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[MadDog2020]

@SpectorsHockey
"#NHL mediation will continue tomorrow at 10 am ET. No statement due from #NHL tonight on status of CBA talks."

. That's 4:00 PM FST (Fehr Standard Time- just add about 6 hours or so).

[NJDevs4978]

From the old thread:

''We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime,'' Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. ''Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff.''

lol I wonder if we'll be reading similar quotes this time around about Fehr.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2013 - 09:56 PM.