58 replies to this topic

[NJDevs4978]

And people wonder why the public 'never' sides with the players in sports labor disputes lol. I don't see anyone asking the owners to take a 20% cut unless you count revenue sharing perhaps and they're not willing to do that.

[SterioDesign]

I really think its unfair to call them losers and everything cause they could still be set for life compared to us if they would have budget their money... No one would take a 20% paycut and be happy with it, actually take 20% off anyones budget and its gonna fvck them up.

Thoses guys made it to the nhl its a big deal and they had to work super hard and make sacrifices to get there, plus its a dangerous sport any game could be their last and if your carreer is ending and that youre not prepared for thst thats an even bigger money drop for you.

[Devils Pride 26]

Krys Barch is not making $7.5 million in his career. No one like that is playing 15 seasons either. He'll be lucky to play 8 years at league min. With each lockout, he has lost a year, and there is no guarantee that players like him have jobs after it. These guys usually play year-to-year deals.

And any amount you come up with, take into account taxes and a lot of other fees and expenses one has. The professional NHL career is a short one for your average player. That's why guys who take hometown discounts or take less to play for a contender don't get enough credit.

I'm not saying these guys don't have it good, but many don't have it as well as you think. The twitter world though is not the best place to open up, especially when talking about money.

I do see your point, but I do not agree. We have to pay taxes too. Admittedly, I am not a tax expert. Yet according to this: https://www.calcxml....skn=#calcoutput

500k equates to paying 137.3k in taxes over a year. Through 15 years it becomes $2.06M and after taxes he makes $5.4M
10 years: after taxes $3.6M
5 years: after taxes $1.8M
----------------------------------------
For Joe Dirte making 75k a year, he pays $7,455 in taxes a year. After paying that for 40 years, the money after taxes comes out to $2.7M over his career of 40 years.

To match Joe Dirte - Barch needs to make $1M over 35 years. Or in other words, 27k a year over 35 years. He could make that being a janitor or a desk job answering phone calls

In conclusion: I have no sympathy

I really think its unfair to call them losers and everything cause they could still be set for life compared to us if they would have budget their money... No one would take a 20% paycut and be happy with it, actually take 20% off anyones budget and its gonna fvck them up.

Thoses guys made it to the nhl its a big deal and they had to work super hard and make sacrifices to get there, plus its a dangerous sport any game could be their last and if your carreer is ending and that youre not prepared for thst thats an even bigger money drop for you.

Sucks for them, almost all had a chance for a free education. If they took it, no reason they can't pursue a career like the rest of us. If they didn't, sucks for them

[devils102]

I don't have much sympathy for the players... but owners are full of crap this time around. They know we're all coming back like a bunch of suckers so they're just going to sit out and wait for the players to cave. They have full time jobs where they make tons of money. The players are millionaires but their still out of work and eventually that will force them to give-in.

The owners are greedy... They want some kind of socialist hockey empire where they all live happily and make wads of cash no matter how crappy a job they do managing their team's and their teams finances. The players are freelancers who offer a service... If you can't afford to pay for that service... then don't. Find someone else to do it cheaper or go without.... That's what everyone else on the planet does... When I go to the store and can't afford to buy the best TV... I don't get the government to shut down the store and force the company to lower its price... I but a cheaper TV.

This is called a free market and the owners have made billions in this system through whatever company they own. Now that its inconvenient for them they want to change it... Stop spending money you don't have on players you can't afford.

And the fans are not victims either. Hockey will be back soon. You will be fine.

Edited by devils102, 01 October 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[devilsfan26]

Bottom line is that I do not want to hear anyone making over $500,000 complain about work to the fans. Its disgusting.

So do you expect him to just be happy about the owners who offered these contracts to now want to go back and on them and slice 20% off? Anyone in that position is going to be pissed about that much of a bait-and-switch regardless of how much they make.

Why should they have to be the ones to bail out the league for putting and keeping teams in unprofitable locations? Why can't there be more revenue sharing between teams? We have these billionaire owners raking in big bucks every year but people are pointing their fingers at the players for being upset about the owners wanting to chop off a huge chunk of the contracts that the owners already offered, agreed to, and signed. Why is it popular to criticize the players for being rich and greedy while excusing the owners? Are the players even asking for anything more than the status quo? From what I have read it seems like the owners are the ones trying to get more money out of this CBA, why are they not being criticized more? Maybe because their gaudy incomes aren't publicized.

We could be missing 2 Stanley Cups in less then 10 years. That alone as a fan is enough for me to seriously debate never spending another dime on the NHL.

Fair enough but still, we aren't losing anything of real tangible value. It really sucks we could be missing out on another season, but we have no financial stake in this like the players and owners do.

[Satans Hockey]

Fair enough but still, we aren't losing anything of real tangible value. It really sucks we could be missing out on another season, but we have no financial stake in this like the players and owners do.

I'm losing my passion and my favorite hobby that I enjoy atttending with friends and family members who won't get these years back that we lost. We lost the possibility of have enjoying great moments together like game 6 of the ecf and etc.

And more importantly this is having a big impact on many families around the US and Canada, families whose lives depend on the NHL. The workers at the arena, people who work for the team, the resturants around the arenas and even some members of this board who are either losing their jobs or are having their hours being greatly reduced. These people are the ones who are being hit hardest financially and they have no say in the matter. These people can't go over to Europe and work like the players are doing.The NHL owners and the NHL players couldn't give two sh!ts about these people let alone their own fans who pay their ridicilious salaries.

This is the major issue I'm having and the main issue with why I'll struggle to give the NHL or Devils any more money if we miss an entire season. Both sides are greedy and entitled and both sides don't deserve my money.

Edited by Satans Hockey, 01 October 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Jmorc2003]

Sorry dude, no sympathy here. 20% cut when you're making 1.5 mil hurts you a lot less than the guy supporting his family on 70k (or less in many cases). Too bad you're going to have to keep working after hockey, everyone here is working until their 65 too (not to mention, an ex-nhler has a specilized skill and experience, go hustle around the camp and clinic circuit, consult). Physically demanding? A guy that did some masonry work for me, in his early 40s can barely stand straight up at the end of the day. I know plenty of people who have worked hard, sacrificed (and I'm not talking about playing a sport they love either), and are still just making it.
Paul Bissionette makes public appeals for sympathy then tweets pics of him and his favorite seamstress at Barney's. Sorry again dude. I don't feel the least bit sorry for you either. If your payday is so fleeting, maybe you should live more conservatively. Players are coming off like immature, uneducated, babies.
I'm not taking the owners side either. They're just as greedy. No one is winning here.
Good point about the people who depend on a games for their livelihood. But the players and owners could give a crap.

[Steven M.]

I'm not saying anyone should just take a huge paycut and be happy with it, I'm just saying perhaps his choice of words, his platform of communicating them (twitter), and his audience (the fans) was pretty much all wrong. Going to be hard to find any sympathy from fans, an overwhelming majority of whom will all need to work for most of their lives. I understand there are drawbacks to being Krys Barch in the NHL, the physical punishment, the short timespan with which he will be relevant... but I think most people will agree he's pretty well compensated for his efforts.

I hate that this is what we have to talk about in October. ugh...

[ATLL765]

Bottom line is, player or owner, the lockout is not going to leave you broke. The true victims here are the front office people who got laid off, the restaurants, bars, etc. around NHL arenas that will have a lot less business if there's less game days this year. The owners and employees of those establishments are going to be the one's who truly feel the effect(money-wise) of losing games this year.

[devilsfan26]

I'm losing my passion and my favorite hobby that I enjoy atttending with friends and family members who won't get these years back that we lost. We lost the possibility of have enjoying great moments together like game 6 of the ecf and etc.

Yes that is true, and it sucks tremendously, but it doesn't have any monetary value. The fans have less to lose in this ordeal out of anyone involved.

And more importantly this is having a big impact on many families around the US and Canada, families whose lives depend on the NHL. The workers at the arena, people who work for the team, the resturants around the arenas and even some members of this board who are either losing their jobs or are having their hours being greatly reduced. These people are the ones who are being hit hardest financially and they have no say in the matter. These people can't go over to Europe and work like the players are doing.The NHL owners and the NHL players couldn't give two sh!ts about these people let alone their own fans who pay their ridicilious salaries.

Now this I agree with 100%. These are the people who are losing the most. Their financial futures are at stake, the fans' have nothing of the sort at stake here. The players and owners are arguing over millions and millions of dollars, but either side will be just fine regardless of how it all shakes down, but the longer this goes, the more these workers lose.

[Exit56]

Couple things to remember here:

Owners did this, the players offered to play under no CBA. It's the owners fault 100% for this current lockout.
The players are doing what any one of us would do under the same circumstances.

The regular people have always been and will continue to be cannon fodder in all of this. That's just where we are.

Until we make a conscious decision to not be their monkeys any more, it will continue.

I mean, come on, we're "consumers" for f's sake. not "customers", not "the public" - CONSUMERS.

[Zubie#8]

Couple things to remember here:

Owners did this, the players offered to play under no CBA. It's the owners fault 100% for this current lockout.
The players are doing what any one of us would do under the same circumstances.

The regular people have always been and will continue to be cannon fodder in all of this. That's just where we are.

Until we make a conscious decision to not be their monkeys any more, it will continue.

I mean, come on, we're "consumers" for f's sake. not "customers", not "the public" - CONSUMERS.

Why on Earth would the NHL allow the players to play with no CBA where Fehr can have them strike at any point in the season giving the players all the leverage...

[Exit56]

http://prohockeytalk...rent-agreement/

Sorry, mis-spoke.. Play under the current/previous CBA. There's no leverage if that was the case.

[ThreeCups]

I'm trying to accept the fact that there will be no season...

LET'S GO GIANTS!!!

[NJDevs4978]

Again I'm surprised people don't point out how the owners sat out a year to get 'their' CBA and now they won't play under the current CBA, they need another new one. So either they sat out a year for a subpar deal (in which case why they're so willing to sit out again is beyond me) or they're full of **** about needing a new deal and are just looking to bully one out of the union.

[aylbert]

Again I'm surprised people don't point out how the owners sat out a year to get 'their' CBA and now they won't play under the current CBA, they need another new one. So either they sat out a year for a subpar deal (in which case why they're so willing to sit out again is beyond me) or they're full of **** about needing a new deal and are just looking to bully one out of the union.

Because unlike players, the league is looking long term. Last time, they sacrificed the year to get the salary cap the players swore they would never accept. In doing so, they gave them a very high percentage of the revenue. It's time they split the revenue evenly.

If I'm the union, my focus is try to get 53 player / 47 NHL share... with no roll backs... and then agree to 50/50 with no rollback.

What is HRR? That's a fun debate. But at leas they are still discussing that part.

[Triumph]

Re: Barch's career salary leaving you set for life - that's absurd. Yes, if someone lived like a complete miser while their peer group (which for high level athletes seems to comprise only other high level athletes, and usually those of the same persuasion), they could possibly never work again. Again, when your peer group are millionaires most of whom are living like, well, millionaires, it's tough to live in a studio apartment to save cash. Furthermore, who actually wants to be retired at 35? Barch's larger point is that people who play NHL hockey, by and large, are not set for life. I also am not sure if they should be, but the point is that the money is there. People spend lots of money on the NHL. Where do you want the money to go - players or owners?

aylbert: The league is not looking long-term. It is not investigating revenue sharing in any significant form. Without that, this cycle will continue to repeat, hurting owners, players, and fans.

[NJDevs4978]

Because unlike players, the league is looking long term. Last time, they sacrificed the year to get the salary cap the players swore they would never accept. In doing so, they gave them a very high percentage of the revenue. It's time they split the revenue evenly.

The players had already capitulated on the cap before the season was canceled, they just wanted a number in the high 40's and the owners wanted low 40's. Funny how that wound up canceling the season and the cap wound up going to 70 million.

If they're thinking long-term they're not doing a very good job of it since we come up with this after EVERY SINGLE CBA. Other than the NBA recently with a two-month stoppage, other leagues have managed to get their **** in order in time to not miss games and the NHL has done this three times!

Edited by NJDevs4978, 01 October 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[DJ Eco]

Anyone hating on Barch for this would be similarly pissed if you were in his shoes. Yes, "it's all relative", so imagine you getting a 20% pay-cut, or even worse, not getting paid til you agree to that pay-cut!!!

Hating on how much these athletes make is an entirely different issue and if you felt strongly about that, you wouldn't support them by going to the games or buying their jerseys. Barch and every player has every right to complain, and he did so quite eloquently I think. If this were Janssen's Twitter (if he had one), I'm sure you'd sympathise with him.

[DJ Eco]

This is the major issue I'm having and the main issue with why I'll struggle to give the NHL or Devils any more money if we miss an entire season. Both sides are greedy and entitled and both sides don't deserve my money.

Playing devil's/Devils' advocate here, but I doubt Vanderbeek is on the frontlines of any of this lockout nonsense. This lockout does nothing to help him and the "situation" we're in. It's in his best interest to start the season immediately. However, he's obviously involved in this by default.

I imagine the owners of teams like the Flyers, Rangers, Maple Leafs, Blackhawks running the show, big time. There's a lot to blame on these organization about what's happening right now and what's to come.