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2013 Yankees Season


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#121 thefiestygoat

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

I think someone will be willing to overpay Hughes. A NL team like you mentioned seems likely. I wouldn't be surprised if Joba has pitched himself into only getting minor league offers with the chance to win a spot in spring training from some NL team. I wish them the best but I am glad they are moving on.

Those are some pretty cool memories. I'm 25 but was lucky enough to get to a decent amount of games at the old stadium. I can't help but feel let down everytime I'm at the new stadium - the atmosphere and vibe is just completely different and not in a good way.

I remember my brother talking about the strike and him being pretty upset about it but I was too young then to understand it and really get upset. The 1995 season is the 1st season I can really remember following day in an day out and my brother telling me how important it was for them to win it for Mattingly. 7 year old me was really upset when they lost the way they did. As time has passed I realized how much the strike impacted a lot of baseball fans, and as you mentioned, the Expos. It's really a shame. My grandfather was a big baseball fan and has hardly watched the game since then.

Talking about the Yankees on MSG, I still remember those corny but catchy "Yankees baseball on MSG!" commercials. I can't stand Sterling at all and I am indifferent towards Kay, but Sterling didn't seem as annoying in those days. Maybe it's because I was younger or maybe he used to be better at his job and Kay leveled him out. I don't know.


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#122 thefiestygoat

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:05 PM

A couple of interesting hot stove notes:

 

- Unfortunately, Hal has completed his audit of player development, drafting, and scouting and seems content to not make any major personnel changes. Instead opting for "procedural" changes or as Mike from River Ave Blues/CBS says, "slap some lipstick on the organizational pig." It's absolutely maddening and frustrating.

 

- According to Ken Rosenthal the Yankees and SS Brendan Ryan have mutual interest and a deal may happen quickly. I'd be very happy with this move. They still need to find a SS and 3B that can hit above league average, but as a back up, Ryan is a perfect fit as an elite defender. Apparently Hal spoke to Jeter and it appears Jeter may realize that his time in the field will be cut down dramatically (as it should be).

 

- The Cardinals want to move 3B David Freese to open up room for top prospect, 2B Kolten Wong, while shifting Matt Carpenter from 2B to 3B. Freese makes a lot of sense for the Yankees and it doesn't appear the Cardinals are demanding much for Freese who is oft-injured and is coming off a down year (106 wRC+, 0.3 WAR). The Yankees have already discussed a deal internally. Maybe Nunez + a back end arm/middling prospect gets it done. Freese is only projected to earn $4.4M next year at age 31, is arbitration eligible in 2015, and then a free agent. He'd be a cheaper option than Mark Reynolds too. Freese is a career .286/.356/.427 .141 ISO .345 wOBA 119 wRC+ hitter. That's a ton better than the .221/.290/.330 .110 ISO .279 wOBA 69 wRC+ the Yankees got out of 3B last year.


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Co-Winner of the 2011 Scott Bertoli Award for Best Minor League Poster, Winner of the 2012 Scott Bertoli Award


#123 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:48 PM

Yankees agree with Brendan Ryan 1/~$2.0 M

 

Also, Alex Rodriguez thinks he's being screwed, bows out of grievance hearing.

 

The Yankees have also been linked to Jhonny Peralta, Carlos Beltran, Brian McCann and Stephen Drew, although it's tough to say at what state the negotiations are there. 


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#124 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:58 PM

Of course they should tender an offer to Granderson. Guarantees compensation. I think they held onto Hughes and Joba for a similar reason. Though I wonder who will sign them. Probably NL teams I'd imagine that are good with reclamation projects. The Giants perhaps?

 

Regarding the offseason, I'm more in a wait and see mode. I wouldn't go more than 7 years for Cano. Take it or leave it. I'd imagine he'll re-sign. They should probably be in on McCann. Can't compete without a starting catcher. They'll have to add a starter. Not sure about re-signing Kuroda, who's getting up there and showed signs of wearing down. I want to see what Phelps can do in the rotation. The wildcard is Pineda. It'd be much easier if he was healthy. You never have enough arms.

 

Regarding Steinbrenner, I'm 36 and remember those 80's teams well. Donnie Baseball will always be my favorite. For that 5-year stretch, no one was better. The Hitman did it all. AL MVP. Batting title. Gold Glove. Those were fun teams with Rickey leading off and Willie second, Mattingly third and Winfield cleanup. Pags at the hot corner. Butch Wynegar. Bobby Meacham. Claudell Washington. Even Ken Griffey before he teamed with his son in Seattle. They never had enough pitching. There was Guidry and Rags. That was it. I still remember as a kid seeing Drabek in Spring Training and thinking he was going to be good. Then, they went and traded him to the Pirates for <gulp> Rick Rhoden. I couldn't believe it. Same team traded Jay Buhner to the Mariners for Ken Phelps. They also gave away McGriff. Al Leiter got ruined by Dallas Green letting him throw like 150 pitches. Then, he was dealt to the Jays for Barfield. It took a lot of time before he recovered and became a quality starter. Leiter still tells that story to this day.

 

I wasn't spoiled. I went to games with my Uncle Murray and watched them lose to the Jays. Then the whole Winfield/George/Spira debacle and Mike Witt. It just deteriorated. The only thing that saved the Yankees was baseball suspending The Boss. It allowed the organization to rebuild the farm system. The beginning of the 90's was a train wreck. But I loved going to The Stadium from Staten Island. Hopped the 74 to the Ferry with my buddy Ivan then walked to Bowling Green and took the 4. Tickets were so cheap. Even though they sucked, it was a fun time to go see them. Kevin Maas came up in September 1990 and went off. Classic. Then they traded Roberto Kelly to the Reds for Paul O'Neill and things got rolling. A kid named Bernie Williams took over center field. They signed Spike Owen and eventually Wade Boggs and Jimmy Key. Those additions taught them how to prepare on and off the field. And how to win. Almost forgot Black Jack McDowell. The original flip off pre-Theo Fleury at MSG.

 

What else do I remember? Scott Sanderson. Matt Nokes. Rich Monteleone. Steve Farr. Steve Howe. Pascal Perez. Melido Perez. Wayne Tolleson. Randy Velarde. Mike Blowers. Bob Geren. Danny Tartabull signing that contract in response to the Mets signing Bobby Bonilla. He was supposed to be the savior. I still think to this day they gave him that contract based on a meaningless game the prior year where he hit an opposite field grand slam in the 9th off Farr. My favorite memory is still the Memorial Day game in 1991 when Mel Hall hit a game-winning three-run homer to beat the Red Sox. I think it was off Jeff Reardon. We were in the right field upper deck. And I still recall seeing some angry Red Sock fan get into an argument and drunk. He was tossed out. Haha. I always look back on it and think that was a good omen. Barfield hit a homer and Hall I think had 2 including the walk off. Maas got on when he drilled one off Reardon and then Hall won it. Ivan was so nuts, we waited outside by the press box for Boston to come out so he could heckle Boggs. And our older friend Stu, who was a diehard Mets fan wound up waiting in the garage and he was sitting on his car. :lol: He must've been waiting forever.

 

I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything. Those were great days. Fun times. And sitting behind the plate where some clown named Fuzzy (think Rangers MSG-yep that guy) and a bunch of other bookies kept score of each game. There was this one guy whose signature was to yell, "Heeeeeeeee struck him OUT!," every time someone K'd. Downright hilarious. There was OId-Timer's Day when it was still great to go without it costing an arm and a leg. We went to one versus the Angels and I think another against the A's. Reggie's former teams though Oakland was really it.

 

I love baseball. But I really loved it back then. Then everything changed. The Expos died the strike year basically. Mattingly had to wait one more year for the playoffs and if not for Edgar Martinez and Griffey, Jr. rounding those bases like a sprinter, he wins MVP of that series. I remember being heartbroken watching it at my FDU dorm. But knew it was gonna happen. Nobody was better than Ken Griffey, Jr. What a player. I also remember a kid named Mariano Rivera escaping a bases loaded 0 out jam in that series. May have been the same game before Showalter went to McDowell over his closer Wetteland. Maybe we should've known on Mariano. It was his cousin Ruben who got all the ink including that crazy Daily News Sunday cover that proclaimed The Next Mantle?!?!?!?! Funny how it turned out.

 

After the strike, it all went to sh!t. There's '96 and everything else. Winning the way they did over Atlanta from 0-2 down with Torre telling the classic story of how he told George they'd win all 3 in Atlanta and close it out. Wow. The other years were easier. That '96 team was special. Before they won with Jeter and Pettite and Bern Baby Bern, they had fan fests during the winter. Usually at the Javits Center. We went twice. I remember getting O'Neill in '94 when he won the batting title. I told him to kick butt. He was cool too. Very personable. Funny thing is I had him that same year on my Micro League roster along with Jeff Bagwell. Needless to say, I won the championship. That strike still irks me because I really wanted to see that Yankee team in October and the Expos. Who knows how it would've turned out. Don't forget Matt Williams had 43 homers. Then it ended. Brutal.  

 

One other note. The year Buck took over, the Yankee theme became Twisted Sister's "We're Not Gonna Take It." They used to play it before every home game. And those were the days when they were on MSG with Dewayne Stats with Sterling and Kay on WABC. It was better being a fan.

 

Man, this is a great post.  I remember all of this stuff too.  Leiter threw 162 pitches in that infamous game...walked 10 AND struck out 10.  It's a miracle that he not only fought back to have a career, but one that was actually pretty good.  From 1989-92, he pitched something like 15 major-league innings total.  He really persevered. 

 

I remember Maas and "Bam-Bam" Meulens...they were supposed to be the new M&M boys, lol.  Also remember Dan Pasqua (he was very muscular for an '80s ballplayer), who was looked like he was going to be a big-time star in 1986...then when 1987 rolled around, and pitchers started throwing him off-speed stuff, he was never as good again...still played in 900 MLB games (played a few positions and could some hit home runs), mostly with the White Sox. 

 

Yankees had quite a few first basemen come through their system...McGriff, Hal Morris, JT Snow.  Some of the players you mention from the late 80s were a lot of the Yankees' problem...the Yankees seemed to be loading up on guys who could hit, but couldn't really field well, and were overpaying mediocre pitchers like Andy Hawkins, Charlie Hudson, Dave LaPoint, etc.  The Yankees traded Doug Drabek, Brian Fisher, and Logan Easley for Rick Rhoden, Pat Clements (who had one of the ugliest windups ever...he stunk as a Yankee, but was a decent lefty reliever everywhere else), and some other guy.  My uncle was furious about the deal the second it was made, especially with losing Drabek.  Brian Fisher is best known for having to go on the DL with a lacerated arm.  He did that by leaning too hard on a...wait for it...miniature golf club.  He was playing a round of mini-golf, leaned on his club, and the club snapped in two and one of its jagged edges lacerated his arm.    


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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#125 CarterforPresident

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:46 PM

Beltran won't be a Yankee
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#126 thefiestygoat

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:08 PM

Yankees have made a couple of nice minor league pick ups so far in OF Antoan Richardson and 2B/SS Dean Anna.

Richardson is a small (5'8 165), speedy (66-78 SB last 2 years) OF that old scouting reports suggest has good D. He's entering his age 30 season and will be in big league camp. In 1,756 PA in AA he has a .727 OPS. In 439 PA in AAA he has a .719. As River Ave Blues notes, he had a solid 2013 in the Twins organization: 523 PA .285/.402/.371 126 wRC+. Real solid depth move.

 

Dean Anna had a solid 2013 season at age 26 in AAA: 582 PA .331/.410/.482 .151 ISO .400 wOBA 140 wRC+ but a with a .361 BABIP. He doesn't have a ton of power but has hit well at pretty much every level he's played at so far and adds much needed MIF depth. I'd expect to see him in big league camp this spring.


Edited by thefiestygoat, 20 November 2013 - 10:11 PM.

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#127 Mike Brown

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 11:00 AM

Ever since they won in 2009, I've honestly seen myself more as a Yankees follower than a Yankees fan.  I'm just not that emotionally invested in the Yankees like I once was.  It probably has a lot to do with the fact the Yankees just play a boring brand of baseball.  The team has gone stale on me.


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#128 thefiestygoat

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 03:54 PM

Ever since they won in 2009, I've honestly seen myself more as a Yankees follower than a Yankees fan.  I'm just not that emotionally invested in the Yankees like I once was.  It probably has a lot to do with the fact the Yankees just play a boring brand of baseball.  The team has gone stale on me.

For better or worse I'm probably too emotionally invested in the Yankees. Having an older brother who raised me to be a fan of them from a young age, it's just natural to me. I suppose part of it is that they are one of two sports teams that I share in common with my brother which makes me love them even more.

 

I don't know if I'd say they play a boring brand of baseball typically. I mean last year with the power outage and lack of offense yeah but to be honest I think baseball is a pretty boring sport. The Yankees are my 2nd favorite sports team after the Devils but I really have a hard time watching a baseball game that doesn't involve the Yankees. Even the playoffs, unless it's like a series clincher, I usually don't watch it if the Yankees aren't involved.


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#129 nmigliore

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:33 PM

Yankees reportedly signing McCann for 5/85 with a vesting option that could make it 6/100. I think it's a great pickup for you guys; he's not super-old, is a good match for Yankee Stadium's dimensions, and is still clearly very good (Steamer/ZiPS both see him as a 3 to 4 win player in 2014). Substantial upgrade over Chris Stewart. 


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#130 thefiestygoat

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:19 AM

Yankees reportedly signing McCann for 5/85 with a vesting option that could make it 6/100. I think it's a great pickup for you guys; he's not super-old, is a good match for Yankee Stadium's dimensions, and is still clearly very good (Steamer/ZiPS both see him as a 3 to 4 win player in 2014). Substantial upgrade over Chris Stewart. 

Got this news right before I was going out for a party so needless to say I have had a very good night. Almost couldn't believe it. I was intending on writing a post about how the Yankees should be aggressive and not wait on the A-Rod ruling in January (though it looks like he's coming off the books for 2014 imo) and that they shouldn't wait for Cano since they have so many positions that they need to upgrade and his negotiations could drag out, so they should just go ahead and make signings before the market drys up. My nearly 5 AM analysis/random thoughts.

 

1. Yes!!!!!!! Yankees will have a real MLB catcher this season!

 

2. McCann signing this early, Peralta rumored close to a deal with Cards, Lincecum, Hudson, Johnson, Murphy already have new deals. The market seems to be moving a lot faster than usual. We haven't even had the winter meetings yet. Seems weird.

 

3. 2013 Yankees catchers ranked 26th in wOBA with a .266 average (6th worst in franchise history!). McCann had a .347 wOBA in 2013 and a .353 wOBA for his career. 2013 Yankees catchers: 0.9 WAR. McCann in 2013 had a 2.7 WAR in just 102 games and could easily surpass that in 2014. Huge, huge upgrade.

 

4. 5/$85 seems very fair to both sides. a.a.v. of $17M and that 6th year vesting option shouldn't change the tax hit too much whenever that would be. Seems to be right around what a lot of people thought he'd get.

 

5. I haven't checked yet since I'm tired but I've read he's a good pitch framer which the Yankees do highly value. Won't factor into his WAR but will into his overall value.

 

6. Realistically he'll move from C to DH/1B at some point I imagine. Gives the Yankees time to evaluate their catchers and may even move a top prospect like Gary Sanchez in a deal for help on the MLB roster at some point. If the Yankees can't get Cano and don't like Infante then I'd love to trade for a guy like Howie Kendrick if the Angels are willing to move him. Solid player on both sides of the ball and has a friendly contract for 2014 and 2015 which would help keep cost down.

 

7. I wanted Peralta too but he seems like he's about to come off the market. Yankees still need to address SS/3B but hopefully they go aggressively in getting one of Beltran/Choo/Granderson soon. Stay aggressive and don't let Cano's FA affect being aggressive on other top guys.


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#131 Mike Brown

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 10:54 PM

I like the McCann signing.  Not thrilled about the actual contract though.


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#132 thefiestygoat

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:43 PM

Reports suggest that the Yankees are going hard after Beltran over Choo and Granderson. While I'd prefer the other 2 to him, Beltran could end up being cheaper. Apparently interest is mutual but the Yankees don't want to offer 3 years and have a 2 year offer out to him.

Beltran makes me nervous because of his age (37 next year) and he's already showing sings of decline. Check out his OBP, SLG, BB%, and BB/K graphs. Sure he's played 140+ games, around 600 PA+ per year over the last 3 years with great numbers (137 wRC+, 9.7 WAR over those 3 years) but I can't help but feel like his numbers could just fall off a cliff at some point soon.

Granderson (33 next year) and Choo (31) are the much better players going forward but FanGraphs crowdsourcing has Granderson getting around 4/56 and Choo around 5/81. MLB Trade Rumors has Granderson getting around 3/45 (I think he gets more) and Choo around 6/100. I'd be fine offering those guys any of those deals and would only want Beltran if he really came in at a cheaper average annual value. FanGraphs crowdsourcing has Beltran getting around 2/26.8 and MLBTR has him getting around 2/30. I'd rather try to entice him by giving him the 3rd year but $39M to knock the a.a.v. to $13M.

Even if Beltran does decline, if he can at least stay above league average at the plate it would be a decent upgrade over what Yankees RF did last year, a pitful 70 wRC+, 0.2 WAR.

 

I like the McCann signing.  Not thrilled about the actual contract though.

I think the contract is very fair. $17M/yr for one of the top catchers in the game and he's only going to be 30 next year. Plus he's a perfect fit for Yankee stadium. They only need him to catch for 3 years before switching him to 1B after Teixeira's deal expires after 2016. If they haven't traded Gary Sanchez by then, then he could be ready if he pans out.


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#133 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:22 AM

All I gotta say is, it must be nice to go into every offseason knowing your team is going to make use of every last resource (even if they're scaling back a little) to try to put as solid a product as possible on the field.  No trying to get a peek at the buffet table to see what scraps might be left by the time everyone else has already filled their plates.  No uncreative, passionless GMs taking pot-shots at upper management in the press (doesn't that always look good...GMs bitching about their circumstances...that gets guys all jazzed up about signing with a team like that).  The Yankees may not always win, but damned if they don't at least TRY.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#134 thefiestygoat

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:09 PM

All I gotta say is, it must be nice to go into every offseason knowing your team is going to make use of every last resource (even if they're scaling back a little) to try to put as solid a product as possible on the field.  No trying to get a peek at the buffet table to see what scraps might be left by the time everyone else has already filled their plates.  No uncreative, passionless GMs taking pot-shots at upper management in the press (doesn't that always look good...GMs bitching about their circumstances...that gets guys all jazzed up about signing with a team like that).  The Yankees may not always win, but damned if they don't at least TRY.   

It is nice. Outside of last offseason they have always tried to upgrade the team since I became a fan. Even though Hal may be more about the money I think he realized that after intentionally downgrading the team last year he missed out on a lot of revenue from missing the playoffs and the declines in tv ratings and attendance.

 

I had lost faith in ownership but I'm regaining it now after the McCann signing and the depth acquisitions of Antoan Richardson, Dean Anna, and Yamaico Navarro. I also think they are handling the Cano situation perfectly. Rather than wait around they are going out and making huge upgrades at positions they were extremely poor at last year. Cano doesn't have a lot of suitors and I think his price will end up dropping the longer he waits. I kind of hope the Yankees sign Infante who can also play 3B since that would give them insurance on Cano and put even more pressure on him. He also won't cost much. Also thrilled that they are no longer giving out 10 year contracts. Will make it easier to stay under the luxury tax in future years and have more flexibility.

 

I fooled around with a spreadsheet that showed the Yankees could afford to re-sign Cano and Kuroda, and sign Infante and a Granderson/Beltran/Choo and stay under the tax (assuming no A-Rod). If they move Ichiro they could fit in Tanaka if the posting agreement is ever reached. Bullpen would be made of mostly cheap guys with limited MLB experience though but in my opinion that's always the part of the roster you can get value out of cheap guys.

 

I do feel bad for Mets fans and David Wright. Hopefully the Wilpons end up being forced in to selling the team to better owners at some point. No reason they should be penny pinching from a competitive standpoint (I don't know the Wilpons/Mets financial status at all).


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RIP Pat Burns -- RIP Alexander Vasyunov and Lokomotiv Yaroslavl
Winner of the 2008 Sergei Brylin Award for Most Underrated Poster
Co-Winner of the 2011 Scott Bertoli Award for Best Minor League Poster, Winner of the 2012 Scott Bertoli Award


#135 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:19 AM

I do feel bad for Mets fans and David Wright. Hopefully the Wilpons end up being forced in to selling the team to better owners at some point. No reason they should be penny pinching from a competitive standpoint (I don't know the Wilpons/Mets financial status at all).

 

I think we're stuck with the Wilpons, as much as I and many other fans absolutely hate them as owners.  I think in their heart of hearts they firmly believe they are good owners, and are good for Mets baseball. 

 

The problem I think the Mets are going to have is, once they get a decent talent base, I don't think they're going to augment it with that available special (but potentially pricey) player that can put them over the top, no matter how much the team needs it.  In '84, after a long period of irrelevance and embarrassment, they went 90-72 (thanks to Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ron Darling, and others).  The year before, though the team didn't finish with a good record, two building blocks were in place:  Keith Hernandez and Strawberry (he was a rookie call-up that season).  Darling also got his feet wet.  But the Mets clearly needed one more player, and GM Frank Cashen went out and got him before the '85 season in Gary Carter...they won 98 games in 1985, then 108 and the World Series in 1986.  When the Mets needed to make their team a legit contender in '98 and the years to follow, they went out and got Mike Piazza. 

 

But I think the Mets are screwed now, and the only way they're going to get to where they need to be is 100% through the farm.  The pitching may be there (especially if Harvey is fully recovered by 2015, but I'm always leery of hoping for the best from a guy coming off a major injury.  Who knows what he'll be when he comes back?), but there's not many position prospects in the Mets' system.  Sadly, I think Sandy has completely lost his zest for the GM job...I don't think he ever really wanted it in the first place (possibly for the same reasons he probably doesn't want it now).  I don't know exactly what was said in that upstairs meeting with the Wilpons where Sandy cracked jokes about "stacking fives" or whatever after it was over, but as much as I think Met fans are pissed because they feel like the Mets sold them a pack of lies, re: improving the team significantly for 2014, I'm starting to think Sandy might be in the same boat as us.  Maybe he too was led to believe that he'd have a lot more flexibility in upgrading the team via free agency and through some honest-to-goodness spending and taking on of existing pricey contracts than he's been given, and is in "fvck it, I give up" mode.  The problem there is I don't think he's going to try to be shrewd and try to find a hidden gem (the way Cashen did with Bobby Ojeda, and the way Phillips did with John Olerud).  I think Sandy has really thrown in the towel.

 

What I do know for a fact is that the Wilpons have been completely incompetent fvck-ups for several years now, who always seem to be woefully out-of-touch with their fanbase.  It never changes, ever.  Even a new stadium, which is almost a slam-dunk way to create good feelings and waves of excitement...they even fvcked that up.  It was a friggin' monument to the BROOKLYN fvckING DODGERS!  It took Mets fans being outraged by such incomprehensible stupidity before they made it more of a Met ballpark...it actually took Mets fans having to be beyond infuriated before the Wilpons thought, "Gee, maybe we should pay more homage to the team the fans actually come here to watch!"  The Wilpons are a joke without a punchline.  Fred is an out-of-touch senile clown who can't let go of the Brooklyn Dodgers, and doesn't realize that 90% or so of his fanbase couldn't give a flying fvck about a team that left NY after the friggin' 1957 season (almost 57 YEARS AGO!), and his son Jeffy has no business being COO of a major league NY franchise...he and James Dolan must meet up for dinner once a week and laugh about how blessed they both are to have been spawned by the right sperm and egg donors.  The Wilpons suck. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 27 November 2013 - 07:30 AM.

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#136 Daniel

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 10:35 AM

I think we're stuck with the Wilpons, as much as I and many other fans absolutely hate them as owners.  I think in their heart of hearts they firmly believe they are good owners, and are good for Mets baseball. 

 

The problem I think the Mets are going to have is, once they get a decent talent base, I don't think they're going to augment it with that available special (but potentially pricey) player that can put them over the top, no matter how much the team needs it.  In '84, after a long period of irrelevance and embarrassment, they went 90-72 (thanks to Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Ron Darling, and others).  The year before, though the team didn't finish with a good record, two building blocks were in place:  Keith Hernandez and Strawberry (he was a rookie call-up that season).  Darling also got his feet wet.  But the Mets clearly needed one more player, and GM Frank Cashen went out and got him before the '85 season in Gary Carter...they won 98 games in 1985, then 108 and the World Series in 1986.  When the Mets needed to make their team a legit contender in '98 and the years to follow, they went out and got Mike Piazza. 

 

But I think the Mets are screwed now, and the only way they're going to get to where they need to be is 100% through the farm.  The pitching may be there (especially if Harvey is fully recovered by 2015, but I'm always leery of hoping for the best from a guy coming off a major injury.  Who knows what he'll be when he comes back?), but there's not many position prospects in the Mets' system.  Sadly, I think Sandy has completely lost his zest for the GM job...I don't think he ever really wanted it in the first place (possibly for the same reasons he probably doesn't want it now).  I don't know exactly what was said in that upstairs meeting with the Wilpons where Sandy cracked jokes about "stacking fives" or whatever after it was over, but as much as I think Met fans are pissed because they feel like the Mets sold them a pack of lies, re: improving the team significantly for 2014, I'm starting to think Sandy might be in the same boat as us.  Maybe he too was led to believe that he'd have a lot more flexibility in upgrading the team via free agency and through some honest-to-goodness spending and taking on of existing pricey contracts than he's been given, and is in "fvck it, I give up" mode.  The problem there is I don't think he's going to try to be shrewd and try to find a hidden gem (the way Cashen did with Bobby Ojeda, and the way Phillips did with John Olerud).  I think Sandy has really thrown in the towel.

 

What I do know for a fact is that the Wilpons have been completely incompetent fvck-ups for several years now, who always seem to be woefully out-of-touch with their fanbase.  It never changes, ever.  Even a new stadium, which is almost a slam-dunk way to create good feelings and waves of excitement...they even fvcked that up.  It was a friggin' monument to the BROOKLYN fvckING DODGERS!  It took Mets fans being outraged by such incomprehensible stupidity before they made it more of a Met ballpark...it actually took Mets fans having to be beyond infuriated before the Wilpons thought, "Gee, maybe we should pay more homage to the team the fans actually come here to watch!"  The Wilpons are a joke without a punchline.  Fred is an out-of-touch senile clown who can't let go of the Brooklyn Dodgers, and doesn't realize that 90% or so of his fanbase couldn't give a flying fvck about a team that left NY after the friggin' 1957 season (almost 57 YEARS AGO!), and his son Jeffy has no business being COO of a major league NY franchise...he and James Dolan must meet up for dinner once a week and laugh about how blessed they both are to have been spawned by the right sperm and egg donors.  The Wilpons suck. 

 

There is a little bit of cognitive dissonance on the part of fans when it comes to spending on big ticket free agents, and there's a bit of unfairness when it comes to the Wilpons (Madoff imbroglio notwithstanding).  All we keep hearing is that you're going to regret any deal for a 30+ year old free agent that goes past 4 years.  Remember Jason Bay?  The Angels are feeling it big-time with Puljols (who was putting up generational numbers) and Josh Hamilton (who was arguably the best free agent last year).   With Cano, you would have to meet his absolutely insane demands to outbid the Yankees.  You can obviously rule out Beltran.  I suppose Granderson, Choo and Elsbury are the obtainable players that could conceivably help your team. 

 

I still think the thing that would help the Mets out the most would be to trade one of their pitching prospects, I suppose Wheeler, for a stud bat, like Tulowitski.  Pitching prospects are a dicey proposition to begin with.  And that's what the Mets have a lot of. 


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#137 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:05 AM

There is a little bit of cognitive dissonance on the part of fans when it comes to spending on big ticket free agents, and there's a bit of unfairness when it comes to the Wilpons (Madoff imbroglio notwithstanding).  All we keep hearing is that you're going to regret any deal for a 30+ year old free agent that goes past 4 years.  Remember Jason Bay?  The Angels are feeling it big-time with Puljols (who was putting up generational numbers) and Josh Hamilton (who was arguably the best free agent last year).   With Cano, you would have to meet his absolutely insane demands to outbid the Yankees.  You can obviously rule out Beltran.  I suppose Granderson, Choo and Elsbury are the obtainable players that could conceivably help your team. 

 

I still think the thing that would help the Mets out the most would be to trade one of their pitching prospects, I suppose Wheeler, for a stud bat, like Tulowitski.  Pitching prospects are a dicey proposition to begin with.  And that's what the Mets have a lot of. 

 

Re-read the post...I never expected the Mets to be in on the top guys.  The 2013 FA class isn't even that great (but GMs tend to spend big money on the top guys even if they're not that great).  It's more about the Wilpons and their MO in general.  NY is not a small-market team, but it looks like the Wilpons are about to run it like one, after asking Met fans to be patient for years (Mets have not won 80 games since the 2008 season...they've averaged 74.8 wins in the 5 seasons since then), that Met fans were about to be rewarded with some bolder moves than what we'd seen in recent years.  As we've seen, you CAN win on low budgets, I've said that repeatedly, but the Wilpons have not been honest with their fanbase about the plan...they are not being even remotely aggressive in trying to improve the talent.  The low-budget approach requires a GM to be smart and extremely resourceful, to have the ability to get performance out of key players that exceed their value...and I think that takes a high-energy, look-under-every-last-rock kind of person...guys like Cashman get to go after the big targets every year...doesn't require that much thought (I firmly believe Cashman is an ordinary GM without the Yankee dollars backing him up).  Problem is, like I said, I think Sandy's a beaten guy, and I don't think he feels like the Wilpons are going to back him up financially (I'm guessing Sandy would've liked a payroll of $100 million or slightly above to work with...looks like it's going to be $90 mil, tops), so he's like "why kill myself trying to improve the team the way I want to when my owners won't spend for me?"     


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 27 November 2013 - 11:07 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#138 Daniel

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 11:31 AM

Re-read the post...I never expected the Mets to be in on the top guys.  The 2013 FA class isn't even that great (but GMs tend to spend big money on the top guys even if they're not that great).  It's more about the Wilpons and their MO in general.  NY is not a small-market team, but it looks like the Wilpons are about to run it like one, after asking Met fans to be patient for years (Mets have not won 80 games since the 2008 season...they've averaged 74.8 wins in the 5 seasons since then), that Met fans were about to be rewarded with some bolder moves than what we'd seen in recent years.  As we've seen, you CAN win on low budgets, I've said that repeatedly, but the Wilpons have not been honest with their fanbase about the plan...they are not being even remotely aggressive in trying to improve the talent.  The low-budget approach requires a GM to be smart and extremely resourceful, to have the ability to get performance out of key players that exceed their value...and I think that takes a high-energy, look-under-every-last-rock kind of person...guys like Cashman get to go after the big targets every year...doesn't require that much thought (I firmly believe Cashman is an ordinary GM without the Yankee dollars backing him up).  Problem is, like I said, I think Sandy's a beaten guy, and I don't think he feels like the Wilpons are going to back him up financially (I'm guessing Sandy would've liked a payroll of $100 million or slightly above to work with...looks like it's going to be $90 mil, tops), so he's like "why kill myself trying to improve the team the way I want to when my owners won't spend for me?"     

 

When it comes to how the owner impacts the team, it really comes down to how much they're willing to spend and on what, unless you have a Jon Henry type, and I don't even know how involved he is at a nuts and bolts level.  So even if the Wilpons had some plan, beyond saying we're going to open up the checkbook, I don't really see what you're asking them to say.  They don't, nor would you want them involved in making the trades.  They don't evaluate talent and don't make the drafting decisions.  So again, you're saying that the Wilpons won't give Alderson the financial support, I ask, financial support to make precisely what moves?

 

If you don't like Alderson, then I guess that's on the owners.  But usually, when it comes to anyone other than a disaster GM of the Mike Milbury mold, the fans have that attitude like a high school teacher of mine that was the swim coach, who liked to joke that his only job was to say "swim faster". 


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How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#139 nmigliore

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:53 PM

WOW Yankees sign Jacoby Ellsbury, 7/153.

 

What an offseason for you guys so far. Holy sh!t.


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#140 NJDevs4978

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

lol what happened to all that 'they don't want to spend to the luxury tax this year' nonsense?  Or are they planning for post-Cano life?


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