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2013 NHL Draft


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#921 njd3b1ink

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:00 PM

Why do I have an awful feeling that the Rags will get Carolina's pick in a deal that involves Mark Staal?Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Staal alone wouldn't fetch the 5th overall. They will want a relatively low pick along with a dman. Plus Staals eye injury is a huge concern. Word from a friend of mine who has some connections within the rangers is that Staal is having serious problems tracking the puck when it goes along the boards and he's extremely sensitive to light. They have been trying different things such as tinted visors but nothing has helped much. It would be a huge risk for Carolina to take him. Rags might move into the first round for something but definitely not as low as 5th
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#922 Brandon

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:04 PM

Also, i'm interested to see where Max Domi ranks on the Devils draft board, he's been climbing a lot of rankings and some have considered him possibly the best raw offensive talent in the draft, just lacking in other areas that have put him out of the upper-tier of forwards in most people's eyes.

Edited by Brandon, 26 June 2013 - 12:47 AM.

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#923 Triumph

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 10:28 PM

I wouldn't mind trading down if A: Lindholm, Nichushkin, and Monahan are gone and B: both Nurse and Ritsolainen are on the board.  These two outcomes are highly correlated, so I think there's a good chance this is what happens  I don't think the Devils have to avoid defense altogether if that's how they feel (unlike most here, I am not sold on Shinkaruk, though I do like Domi and some others), but if they like the Finn or Nurse, try to trade down and take whichever one is there.


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#924 thefiestygoat

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 12:37 AM

I suppose a post focusing on Nurse and Ristolainen would be appropriate.

Darnell Nurse (6'5, 192 lbs) Rankings
- 7th by Future Considerations
- 2nd amongst D by Future Considerations
- 16th by Hockey Prospect
- 11th by Hockey Prospectus
- 4th amongst NA Skaters by Central Scouting Services
- 6th by International Scouting Services
- 9th by Bob McKenzie/TSN
- 8th by Craig Button
- 8th by McKeen's

 

A blurb from Future Considerations:

 

SCOUTS QUOTE: “Nurse has the top natural athletic ability in this draft crop and we could be witnessing the humble beginnings of a perennial all-star at the next level. NHL teams will be climbing over each other to get their hands on this big, strong, two-way talent.”

NHL POTENTIAL: Top Pairing Physical Two-Way Defenseman

Some scout quotes on him from Hockey Prospect:

 

Quotable: “For me Nurse turned a corner in the Czech Republic at the U18. I was not as high on him as others had been coming into the OHL. I felt like he figured out what he was as a player in Brno and that led to much better results on the ice. I don’t see him as top 10 pick because I think his offensive ability is limited and I’m not sure he thinks the game as well as some other Dmen in this draft. I love his physical game and he’s a gamer. Thoughts from NHL guys are all over the map on Nurse.” - Mark Edwards

Quotable: “Nurse is at his best when he is physically manhandling opponents in the corners and in front of the net. When he starts to think too much and try to get overly active in the offensive game is when he starts to run into some trouble. Cutting down on some of these mistakes and keeping things simple will go a long way towards his success at the NHL level” – Kevin Thacker

Quotable: “He’s out of my first round.” NHL Scout

Quotable: “I take at least four other defenseman ahead of Nurse.” Josh Deitell

Quotable: “I see him as a top 10 pick. Early on I never saw what all the fuss was about but he has grown on me.” NHL Scout

Quotable: “So much talk about him, my concern is the hockey sense. I think he has average hockey sense at best. He will play in the NHL but he might top out as nothing all that special.” - NHL Scout

Quotable: “I’d take him in the top 5.” - NHL Scout

You can read what Hockey Prospectus and Craig Button had to say on him with those links.

Rasmus Ristolainen (6'3, 207 lbs) Rankings
- 12th by Future Considerations
- 4th amongst D by Future Considerations
- 9th by Hockey Prospect
- 8th by Hockey Prospectus
- 4th amongst European Skaters by Central Scouting Services
- 11th by International Scouting Services
- 8th by Bob McKenzie/TSN
- 25th by Craig Button
- 21st by McKeen's

 

A blurb from Future Considerations:

 

SCOUTS QUOTE: “Opinions are all over the place on this guy as some scouts like him as a top-10 talent and future NHL top four blue liner who plays for 15 year plus seasons while others have doubts and see him struggling with the pace of the NHL game.”

NHL POTENTIAL: Top 4 Two-Way Defenseman

Mark Edwards from Hockey Prospect:

 

Quotable: “Another guy where the NHL guys I spoke to about him are all over the map. Some say lock for top 10, others say mid 20’s. I am a huge fan of this kid. I love the mean streak I saw in my viewings. He’s in the upper half of the draft for me. I think Zadorov has slightly more room to get better going forward, but I like Risto’s game right now and I think he will be a very good player in the NHL. I spoke to him at the combine and I was impressed. He was shy at first but as he got more comfortable he opened up and even cracked a few jokes. He roomed with Saros and had some fun with that. He joked that Saros was just a kid and so he was the boss. “ – Mark Edwards

You can read what Hockey Prospectus and Craig Button had to say on him with those links.


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#925 thefiestygoat

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:29 AM

Doing a lot of reading on Zadorov, Nurse, and Ristolainen. I feel like Nurse has the most potential out of the bunch but is the riskiest. He has a frame that should fill out nicely but there seem to be a lot of questions about his hockey sense. Natural athletic ability could take him to the NHL but will he end up a bottom or top pairing guy?

Ristolainen seems to have the most offensive polish out of the bunch without a doubt while Zadorov's is untapped as he focused only on his D game in Russia before joining the OHL. Ristolainen is aggressive and will take risks in all 3 zones and it sounds like he will have to learn to be more careful not to get burned. Still, sounds like he has the best offensive capabilities of the D in this draft after Jones.

Zadorov is also big (6'5, 221 lbs.) like Nurse and Ristolainen. He's a very good skater and physical. He's progressed well in his first OHL season, learning to let the play come to him and improving his puck skills. He uses his body effectively and intelligently. His shot needs work and his offensive game is still raw, causing some doubt to his overall potential. Even without the offensive game I think he could be a solid top 4 D. I actually think I prefer him over Nurse and Ristolainen.


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#926 maxpower

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:07 AM

Staal alone wouldn't fetch the 5th overall. They will want a relatively low pick along with a dman. Plus Staals eye injury is a huge concern. Word from a friend of mine who has some connections within the rangers is that Staal is having serious problems tracking the puck when it goes along the boards and he's extremely sensitive to light. They have been trying different things such as tinted visors but nothing has helped much. It would be a huge risk for Carolina to take him. Rags might move into the first round for something but definitely not as low as 5th

 

I don't have any sources, but I think Staal has big problems with the eye.   Along the lines of White.   If it doesn't go away he's going to have to re-learn the position.   Not saying he won't be able to play, but if you throw him into a playoff game and he feels it goes bad enough that he's done playing for the rest of the playoffs....


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#927 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:23 AM

I'm not sold on Shinkaruk either.  Smaller player, not a lot of God-given talent, but a hard-ass worker (we've seen this recipe before..recently..)

If possible, I want the Devils to grab a dynamic player, a game changer.  You don't come across them very often (especially if you're the Devils), and I really want the Devils to try and capitalize on this opportunity.  Even if it means parting ways with Fayne or another player in order to trade up into the 5th or 6th spot.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 26 June 2013 - 07:40 AM.

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#928 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:33 AM

I'm not huge on Nurse myself because in his numbers I don't see offense.  And while it'd be nice to get a Colin White type in the organization (and indeed, this is the one type of piece the Devils D is lacking, it's got plenty of offense), there's only so far you can go with this sort of player.


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#929 SMantzas

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:37 AM

I'm not huge on Nurse myself because in his numbers I don't see offense. And while it'd be nice to get a Colin White type in the organization (and indeed, this is the one type of piece the Devils D is lacking, it's got plenty of offense), there's only so far you can go with this sort of player.

Just curious, why aren't you sold on Shinkaruk. He put up very good numbers on a very meh team. Meanwhile, Domi put up similar numbers on a stacked team.

Is it because he's a boom or bust guy while Domi could probably play bottom six with his speed and physicality?
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#930 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:02 AM

Just curious, why aren't you sold on Shinkaruk. He put up very good numbers on a very meh team. Meanwhile, Domi put up similar numbers on a stacked team.

Is it because he's a boom or bust guy while Domi could probably play bottom six with his speed and physicality?

 

I don't like WHL scorers, I didn't like what i saw out of him against Swift Current in a game I watched, and I didn't like the profile Copper and Blue did on him.  Don't really care about his size, I just don't feel that he's different enough from the rest to take at 9.


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#931 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:40 AM

Cool article about estimating the quality of competition a prospect faces:  http://www.broadstre...-of-competition


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#932 SterioDesign

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 10:16 AM

I don't like WHL scorers, I didn't like what i saw out of him against Swift Current in a game I watched, and I didn't like the profile Copper and Blue did on him.  Don't really care about his size, I just don't feel that he's different enough from the rest to take at 9.

 

i already said it but for a reason or another when i see shinkaruk i see a mix of Skinner and Gallagher (Gallagher was from the WHL and came out in the 5th round too). 

 

It's just the energy they bring to a team, thats all you kept on hearing from MTL and from the players how Gallagher was bringing life / energy to the other guys and how much having this kid giving his 150% every shift was helping the team. Plus he can score and he never stops.

 

It's not something you can put numbers on as its an intangible but its absolutely something legit that you have to consider cause thats all character. Since we lost Zach i feel our lockeroom is still missing that "spark". Thats why i'd be all in for Shinkaruk personally.


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#933 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

Gallagher is a good player first and foremost - energy, great, he's got to be a good player first.  It's hard to construct an NHL team without one of these energy sorts of players.


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#934 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:34 PM

While I qualify this by saying that I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, what we're starting to hear about the Devils being interested in one of the defensemen is starting to make me nervous.  Lou has stated the obvious that he would prefer to draft a forward.  If the Devils end up drafting one of the defensemen, it means that they don't expect whatever forward is available at 9 to advance the ball so much in the short or long term.  And really, Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov, even if they meet their potential, don't project to be the game breaking defensemen that will be that much better than what the Devils have now, either in terms of prospects or current roster players, and certainly not in the near term. 

 

If I'm Lou, and my assumptions above are correct, I'm pressing very hard to get Carolina's pick.  Carolina has said that it wants an NHL ready, relatively cheap, top four defenseman as part of any package.  At this point, I'd be willing to trade Greene.  Yes, he's our best defenseman right now, but he's not Nick Lidstrom.  The Devils can survive without him, especially if Zidlicky is re-signed.  Whoever is available at 5 -- Drouin, Nischukin or Barkov -- should be first line forwards in the next 2-3 years, and can probably improve the team immediately. 

 

As I've said all along, it is hard to understate how important it is to get this pick right, if not have this pick be a homerun.  Another defenseman not named Seth Jones is not that.  Get it done Lou.


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#935 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:59 PM

Hm..

 

Maybe:

Devils:

9th overall

Greene

2nd rnd

 

Carolina:

5th overall

2nd rnd

3rd rnd

 

I usually avoid making trade proposals in fear of looking like a fool..but maybe something like the above would be appropriate? 

Devils send Greene, 9th, receive 5th and a 3rd, and the teams swap 2nd round picks.


Edited by Devilsfan118, 26 June 2013 - 01:59 PM.

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#936 DH26

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:09 PM

While I qualify this by saying that I'm not a scout or talent evaluator, what we're starting to hear about the Devils being interested in one of the defensemen is starting to make me nervous.  Lou has stated the obvious that he would prefer to draft a forward.  If the Devils end up drafting one of the defensemen, it means that they don't expect whatever forward is available at 9 to advance the ball so much in the short or long term.  And really, Nurse, Ristolainen or Zadorov, even if they meet their potential, don't project to be the game breaking defensemen that will be that much better than what the Devils have now, either in terms of prospects or current roster players, and certainly not in the near term. 

 

If I'm Lou, and my assumptions above are correct, I'm pressing very hard to get Carolina's pick.  Carolina has said that it wants an NHL ready, relatively cheap, top four defenseman as part of any package.  At this point, I'd be willing to trade Greene.  Yes, he's our best defenseman right now, but he's not Nick Lidstrom.  The Devils can survive without him, especially if Zidlicky is re-signed.  Whoever is available at 5 -- Drouin, Nischukin or Barkov -- should be first line forwards in the next 2-3 years, and can probably improve the team immediately. 

 

As I've said all along, it is hard to understate how important it is to get this pick right, if not have this pick be a homerun.  Another defenseman not named Seth Jones is not that.  Get it done Lou.

 

If you're getting picked at #9, by default you're probably not likely to be a sure fire improvement to the team, especially in the short term. The recent best case for that pick is Couture and even he didn't come up right away and be a gamebreaker. You just take the best player you can there and if you're not comfortable w/ the value you trade back and get a Domi/Lazar/Horvat/whoever. If Monahan/Lindholm/whoever are taken and it's Shinkaruk and the defensemen, I'd probably rather have the defensemen but what do I know. It's not like whoever you take at 9's going to come in and win the Calder anyway and 99% likely they won't even be in NJ next year


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#937 DevsMan84

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:14 PM

Hm..

 

Maybe:

Devils:

9th overall

Greene

2nd rnd

 

Carolina:

5th overall

2nd rnd

3rd rnd

 

I usually avoid making trade proposals in fear of looking like a fool..but maybe something like the above would be appropriate? 

Devils send Greene, 9th, receive 5th and a 3rd, and the teams swap 2nd round picks.

 

 

Ugh Greene right now is one of my top 3 Devils and to trade him would suck for me.  However, #5 pick in this year's draft might just to too good to pass up if he goes the other way.  I would prefer Fayne going but would deal with Greene being the one.


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#938 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:21 PM

Not trading Greene to move up - maybe if he had fallen out of favor somewhat, then sure, but he was probably NJ's best defenseman last year.


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#939 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:26 PM

I'd definitely be in favor of swapping Fayne for Greene in the above proposal (and perhaps removing the 3rd coming back from Carolina), but I don't know if Fayne is incentive enough for Carolina to move the 5th overall.


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#940 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:28 PM

Not trading Greene to move up - maybe if he had fallen out of favor somewhat, then sure, but he was probably NJ's best defenseman last year.

 

I get that, but again, he's still Andy Greene, not Brent Seabrook, Ryan McDonough or Drew Doughty.  (To reference Dennis Miller, Andy Greene being your number 1 defenseman is sort of like being the valedictorian of summer school).  The Devils defense is still good enough without him, especially if Zidlicky comes back. 

 

And we wouldn't be moving up to get a marginally better return than what would we get at 9.  You are talking about a player that projects pretty safely to be a number 1 forward, which the Devils aren't really bursting at the seams with.  I realize no matter how highly touted a prospect is, there are risks.  This is a risk worth taking.  Frankly, I don't see how you could dispute it.  I could just as well see Carolina laughing you out of the room even if you offer them Greene.


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