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2013 NHL Draft


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#921 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:25 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Alzner are both real good NHL players, Alzner especially.  I'd be just fine if pick #9 turned into either of those.

 

Either way, getting back to the point, the defense without Greene, even if you include Zidlicky, is Zidlicky Salvador Fayne Tallinder Larsson, which doesn't strike me as all that great and is relying on 3 players well past their prime to hold down serious minutes.  If Larsson's ready to make the jump then it's better, but it looks pretty bad without him.

 

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

 

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.


Edited by Daniel, 26 June 2013 - 03:30 PM.

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#922 DH26

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

 

If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.


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#923 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.

 

Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.


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#924 Devilsfan118

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

I'm with Daniel on this.  The Devils rarely pick in the top-10 (..with the these two years being an exception, I guess), they need to take advantage.  They NEED to try and get a special player.  Not a serviceable one.


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#925 DH26

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.

 

I don't think you guys know how good Alzner is. He's not "serviceable" he's a hell of a defenseman and if you get someone that good here, no matter what position he plays, you take him. If you think Nurse/whoever's that good for sure, you jump on him. Alzner's better than anyone we have now probably except maybe Greene

 

And when you only have a few picks, you don't use them all to trade up 4 spots when the player you take there is probably not much better if at all better than the guy you're getting at 9


Edited by DH26, 26 June 2013 - 03:45 PM.

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#926 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

 

The ISS head scout just labeled Nichushkin an 'enigma'.  Again, I think he's a strong player from what I've seen of him (Super Series, World Juniors), but he doesn't have a 'sure thing' pedigree.  No prospect is a sure thing, but I think you'd want one if you are going to trade a player of Greene's caliber to get one.

 

We shouldn't expect Fayne to improve significantly.  He might, but there's no reason to expect it, he's 26 and has 3 years as a pro.

 

I'm not sure were I in the Islanders shoes that I would trade Josh Bailey for Adam Henrique (not considering service time considerations).  Bailey came on very strong at the end of the year and is a fine player, but of course since the Islanders threw him into the league at 18 and he's now had several average seasons, he's a bust and no good.


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#927 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

I don't think you guys know how good Alzner is. He's not "serviceable" he's a hell of a defenseman and if you get someone that good here, no matter what position he plays, you take him. If you think Nurse/whoever's that good for sure, you jump on him. Alzner's better than anyone we have now probably except maybe Greene

 

And when you only have a few picks, you don't use them all to trade up 4 spots when the player you take there is probably not much better if at all better than the guy you're getting at 9

 

Prospect risks being what they are, who you'd be getting at 5 is going to be much better than who you're getting at 9, if not by an order of magnitude, especially if you're talking about Nurse.  Everyone you talk to says that, among the forwards, there's not that much separating Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov and Nishushkin.  From team scouting executives to third party types like hockeyprospectus, all are called future stars, and each of them would be in the running for the number 1 pick in your average draft.  After these players, and maybe you can add Lindholm, you get into the territory of typical prospect risk -- for lack of a better term. 

 

Also, Alzner got twenty minutes a game on a team that gave up more goals than the Devils and probably had better goaltending than the Devils.  Whatever he is, he is not Chara, Seabrook, Doughty, Keith, Letang, McDonough, Kronwall or Karlson, who are the number 1 defeseman on the other teams that made it to the second round, and who are the types of defensemen a team the Devils could draft and feel made their team a lot better when the smoke clears.


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#928 Daniel

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

The ISS head scout just labeled Nichushkin an 'enigma'.  Again, I think he's a strong player from what I've seen of him (Super Series, World Juniors), but he doesn't have a 'sure thing' pedigree.  No prospect is a sure thing, but I think you'd want one if you are going to trade a player of Greene's caliber to get one.

 

We shouldn't expect Fayne to improve significantly.  He might, but there's no reason to expect it, he's 26 and has 3 years as a pro.

 

I'm not sure were I in the Islanders shoes that I would trade Josh Bailey for Adam Henrique (not considering service time considerations).  Bailey came on very strong at the end of the year and is a fine player, but of course since the Islanders threw him into the league at 18 and he's now had several average seasons, he's a bust and no good.

 

You are twisting what I'm saying about Bailey.  I did not say he is a "bust and no good", and not even in so many words.  To this point though, he is a disappointment for a number 9 pick.  That he came into the league at 18, cry me a river.  Josefson made a much better Devils team as a 19 year old.  But hey, if it turns out that we had a shot to get a first line forward, feel free to say we made out just as well because we got a good defensive forward. 


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#929 DJ Eco

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

When has a Russian player or prospect NOT been labeled "enigmatic"?


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#930 Zubie#8

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:09 PM

I thought Alzner was absolutely AWFUL in the first round against the Rags.

 

EDIT: whoops I was thinking of Erskine haha nvm.


Edited by Zubie#8, 26 June 2013 - 04:10 PM.

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#931 SterioDesign

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:13 PM

I'm with Daniel on this.  The Devils rarely pick in the top-10 (..with the these two years being an exception, I guess), they need to take advantage.  They NEED to try and get a special player.  Not a serviceable one.

 

im with you on this. Thats pretty much all we have in NJ and in our prospect pool "serviceable guys" except maybe 2-3 guys. At some point you need game changers


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#932 CarpathianForest

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

It's not just the fact that we've got a rare draft position, Lou has to quit spending money on the Steve Sullivans and Cam Janssens. He's gotta move some pieces and bring in something from the market. Kovalchuk is the only outstanding player we have. The rest of the team is average to downright bad. Most of the recent Stanley cup winners have at least two players that are top level talent.


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#933 devilsrule33

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

Sorry to change the subject slightly, but just realized the Rangers don't pick to the 65th pick. That's disappointing that Sather escapes thunderous boos on TV (and that late into the draft, from the crowd too).


Edited by devilsrule33, 26 June 2013 - 06:44 PM.

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#934 SMantzas

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

I think there's an obvious shift in team philosophy. With an uncertain financial future and aging players on the way out the Devils are building a big, young D. I foresee a Nashville and Phoenix-esque team that doesn't give up a lot of chances but doesn't necessarily give them up. Although we don't have sure fire young offensive stars we know Josefson, Henrique and Mateau should be at least serviceable in the future. Unless they breakout in the next few years, they shouldn't be too expensive in the future.

Enter our first round pick. We could swing for the fences and choose Shinkaruk or Domi, but I think Lou likes "safer" picks. Horvat has Mike Richards/Patrice Bergeron upside and will face tough competition. He probably has the greatest chance of having a lengthy NHL career in the range of 8-15.
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#935 caron14

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

Depend on who we draft... many believe that nichuskin is nhl ready... so if we draft him at 5 bingo...

 

Sean monahan could be our pick at 5 (if we trade with carolina...)


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#936 Triumph

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

You are twisting what I'm saying about Bailey.  I did not say he is a "bust and no good", and not even in so many words.  To this point though, he is a disappointment for a number 9 pick.  That he came into the league at 18, cry me a river.  Josefson made a much better Devils team as a 19 year old.  But hey, if it turns out that we had a shot to get a first line forward, feel free to say we made out just as well because we got a good defensive forward. 

 

Josefson 'made' (by make, he was an injury callup) a cap-strapped team with 0 depth.  He's going to be a good player, but please don't use that as an example.

 

A disappointment for a #9 pick is a guy who's not capable of playing in the NHL, which there are lots of scattered among top picks, and that it's entirely possible that someone like Shinkaruk or even Nichushkin is.


Edited by Triumph, 26 June 2013 - 05:16 PM.

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#937 njdevsftw

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:14 PM

Would it be plausible to move Greene or Fayne to get another 1st rounder?


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#938 Onddeck

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:20 PM

Would it be plausible to move Greene or Fayne to get another 1st rounder?

not if its not another top 10 pick.

 

and not if its Greene.  Fayne, absolutely


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#939 MadDog2020

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:21 PM

Sorry to change the subject slightly, but just realized the Rangers don't pick to the 65th pick. That's disappointed that Sather escapes thunderous boos on TV (and that late into the draft, from the crowd too).

I wouldn't put it past those jerk-offs to trade into the first round by pawning off some sh!tty roster player on someone. Sather always seems to find patsies who- for reasons beknownst only to God- are willing to make a horrible trade to help him out.
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#940 SMantzas

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

Would it be plausible to move Greene or Fayne to get another 1st rounder?

Devils aren't rebuilding so no
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