Jump to content

Photo

2013 NHL Draft


  • Please log in to reply
1269 replies to this topic

#941 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,521 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:35 PM

I love Greene, but if Devils internal scouting agrees with more external scouting then I'd give up Greene to move up.  Devils internal scouting may not like whoever is left at 5 that much though, compared to what will be left at 9.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#942 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:37 PM

If you're getting picked at #9, by default you're probably not likely to be a sure fire improvement to the team, especially in the short term. The recent best case for that pick is Couture and even he didn't come up right away and be a gamebreaker. You just take the best player you can there and if you're not comfortable w/ the value you trade back and get a Domi/Lazar/Horvat/whoever. If Monahan/Lindholm/whoever are taken and it's Shinkaruk and the defensemen, I'd probably rather have the defensemen but what do I know. It's not like whoever you take at 9's going to come in and win the Calder anyway and 99% likely they won't even be in NJ next year

 

Without taking a detailed look, going back a long time now, there has always been at least one player drafted in the vicinity of 9 that makes a team a lot better, whether you want to call them a first pairing defenseman, a top line or top six forward. 

 

But really, getting this pick right, and having that pick be a forward, is particularly imporant given where the Devils stand right now.  There are no forwards in the system that you can expect to be any better than a second line forward, and that's if everything turns out well.  And you realistically only have two players -- Boucher and Mattaeu -- that have a shot at being that.  And there isn't a ton of scoring punch at forward on the roster right now, much less forwards that you can expect to dramatically improve.  You couple this with the fact that there's no first round pick next year, having number 9 turn into Justin Bailey or Karl Azner will be a huge setback for the franchise. 

 

Looking from the outside, there's a realistic shot at getting a top line player without paying a king's ransom.  I would be very disappointed if Lou leaves any stone unturned in pursuing Carolina's pick. 


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#943 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,079 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:07 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Alzner are both real good NHL players, Alzner especially.  I'd be just fine if pick #9 turned into either of those.

 

Either way, getting back to the point, the defense without Greene, even if you include Zidlicky, is Zidlicky Salvador Fayne Tallinder Larsson Volchenkov, which doesn't strike me as all that great and is relying on 3 players well past their prime to hold down serious minutes.  If Larsson's ready to make the jump then it's better, but it looks pretty bad without him.

 

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.


Edited by Triumph, 26 June 2013 - 03:15 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#944 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,506 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

Was the 2011 draft more stacked than this one? I ask because you never know. Couterier was expected to go higher than he did. I mean you're not going to get a Hall or Landeskog at #9, but I think it's completely feasible that you can get a solid role player that can put up decent numbers at 9.


  • 0

#945 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,521 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:15 PM

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

 

I think moving up to 5 only makes sense if the Devils are one of the groups that believe Nichushkin is a special player that is the overlooked player in the top group.  Opinions are all over the map on him, it seems.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#946 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,506 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

Logan Couture and Mikael Granlund were taken at #9. It's such a toss up. You could draft at #1 and end up with John Tavares or draft at #1 and end up with Alexander Daigle.


  • 0

#947 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:25 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Alzner are both real good NHL players, Alzner especially.  I'd be just fine if pick #9 turned into either of those.

 

Either way, getting back to the point, the defense without Greene, even if you include Zidlicky, is Zidlicky Salvador Fayne Tallinder Larsson, which doesn't strike me as all that great and is relying on 3 players well past their prime to hold down serious minutes.  If Larsson's ready to make the jump then it's better, but it looks pretty bad without him.

 

Regarding the #5 - I don't see who's going to be there who's really worth that kind of moving up.  I like Nichushkin, but not enough to sacrifice Greene for him.  I like Lindholm and Monahan, but again, not enough to sacrifice Greene.  You're not getting one of the top 4 guys with that pick unless somehow Seth Jones falls, in which case the Canes will probably keep the pick.

 

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.


Edited by Daniel, 26 June 2013 - 03:30 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#948 DH26

DH26

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,730 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:33 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

 

If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.


  • 0
Follow Me on Twitter @mtorino75 I Need Followers!

Visit My Devils Blog! www.theTrapezoidConspiracy.com
Rutgers-New Brunswick '11, Rutgers School of Law-Newark '14

#949 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

If you could get an Alzner level player here, I don't care about need you take him no questions asked. Alzner's the best defenseman on a team that was pretty good last year and should've gone farther. And by the time Nurse or whoever got to teh NHL, we wouldn't have a bunch of top 4 guys anymore, Volchenkov would be shot, Salvador would be gone and Tallinder would be gone. Greene and Fayne could be too who knows.

 

Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#950 Devilsfan118

Devilsfan118

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,276 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

I'm with Daniel on this.  The Devils rarely pick in the top-10 (..with the these two years being an exception, I guess), they need to take advantage.  They NEED to try and get a special player.  Not a serviceable one.


  • 0

rsz_2ru-uc9709.jpg

Rutgers:  The Birthplace of College Football

First B1G Season: 7-5


#951 DH26

DH26

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,730 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

Great, you get Karl Azner type player, and that's it, and watch your team hover on the playoff bubble for the next five years.  If that's the best we can do in this draft, it is what it is.  It doesn't mean it's something to get all that excited about, because it isn't.

 

I don't think you guys know how good Alzner is. He's not "serviceable" he's a hell of a defenseman and if you get someone that good here, no matter what position he plays, you take him. If you think Nurse/whoever's that good for sure, you jump on him. Alzner's better than anyone we have now probably except maybe Greene

 

And when you only have a few picks, you don't use them all to trade up 4 spots when the player you take there is probably not much better if at all better than the guy you're getting at 9


Edited by DH26, 26 June 2013 - 03:45 PM.

  • 0
Follow Me on Twitter @mtorino75 I Need Followers!

Visit My Devils Blog! www.theTrapezoidConspiracy.com
Rutgers-New Brunswick '11, Rutgers School of Law-Newark '14

#952 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,079 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:56 PM

Josh Bailey and Karl Azner are assuredly not "real good NHL players".  Neither of them have had much to do with their teams' success, at least above replacement, much more so with Bailey.  And for what the Devils need their equivalents would be huge disappointments.  Karl Azner is a top four defenseman.  We have plenty of those.  Josh Bailey is a third line forward.  Outside of Kovlachuk and Elias, the Devils have plenty of those guys as well.  If the Devils go either of them for nothing, the improvement would be marginal, at best.

 

Regarding the return, as I keep saying I'm not a scout and am only going on what I've read.  Mr. Debbi Downer, Corey Pronman, ranks Nischuskin ahead of Barkov, and raves about both.  The assumption is that you'd be getting one of those two with the number 5 pick.  (Some have speculated that Tampa will take Nischuskin assuming Jones is gone, and that you might even end up with Drouin).

 

So far as what the defense would look like without Greene, there would be a step back in the short term.  I understand.  But among Merrill, Urbom, Gelinas, you could expect at least one of them to be an adequate replacement in two years, and perhaps this year with some luck.  That's not including Severson, who I suppose is still a couple of years away from the NHL.  You could also make a reasonable bet that Fayne and Larsson will improve to the point that you could take the sting out of losing Greene.

 

The ISS head scout just labeled Nichushkin an 'enigma'.  Again, I think he's a strong player from what I've seen of him (Super Series, World Juniors), but he doesn't have a 'sure thing' pedigree.  No prospect is a sure thing, but I think you'd want one if you are going to trade a player of Greene's caliber to get one.

 

We shouldn't expect Fayne to improve significantly.  He might, but there's no reason to expect it, he's 26 and has 3 years as a pro.

 

I'm not sure were I in the Islanders shoes that I would trade Josh Bailey for Adam Henrique (not considering service time considerations).  Bailey came on very strong at the end of the year and is a fine player, but of course since the Islanders threw him into the league at 18 and he's now had several average seasons, he's a bust and no good.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#953 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:57 PM

I don't think you guys know how good Alzner is. He's not "serviceable" he's a hell of a defenseman and if you get someone that good here, no matter what position he plays, you take him. If you think Nurse/whoever's that good for sure, you jump on him. Alzner's better than anyone we have now probably except maybe Greene

 

And when you only have a few picks, you don't use them all to trade up 4 spots when the player you take there is probably not much better if at all better than the guy you're getting at 9

 

Prospect risks being what they are, who you'd be getting at 5 is going to be much better than who you're getting at 9, if not by an order of magnitude, especially if you're talking about Nurse.  Everyone you talk to says that, among the forwards, there's not that much separating Drouin, MacKinnon, Barkov and Nishushkin.  From team scouting executives to third party types like hockeyprospectus, all are called future stars, and each of them would be in the running for the number 1 pick in your average draft.  After these players, and maybe you can add Lindholm, you get into the territory of typical prospect risk -- for lack of a better term. 

 

Also, Alzner got twenty minutes a game on a team that gave up more goals than the Devils and probably had better goaltending than the Devils.  Whatever he is, he is not Chara, Seabrook, Doughty, Keith, Letang, McDonough, Kronwall or Karlson, who are the number 1 defeseman on the other teams that made it to the second round, and who are the types of defensemen a team the Devils could draft and feel made their team a lot better when the smoke clears.


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#954 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

The ISS head scout just labeled Nichushkin an 'enigma'.  Again, I think he's a strong player from what I've seen of him (Super Series, World Juniors), but he doesn't have a 'sure thing' pedigree.  No prospect is a sure thing, but I think you'd want one if you are going to trade a player of Greene's caliber to get one.

 

We shouldn't expect Fayne to improve significantly.  He might, but there's no reason to expect it, he's 26 and has 3 years as a pro.

 

I'm not sure were I in the Islanders shoes that I would trade Josh Bailey for Adam Henrique (not considering service time considerations).  Bailey came on very strong at the end of the year and is a fine player, but of course since the Islanders threw him into the league at 18 and he's now had several average seasons, he's a bust and no good.

 

You are twisting what I'm saying about Bailey.  I did not say he is a "bust and no good", and not even in so many words.  To this point though, he is a disappointment for a number 9 pick.  That he came into the league at 18, cry me a river.  Josefson made a much better Devils team as a 19 year old.  But hey, if it turns out that we had a shot to get a first line forward, feel free to say we made out just as well because we got a good defensive forward. 


  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#955 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,617 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:04 PM

When has a Russian player or prospect NOT been labeled "enigmatic"?


  • 1

#956 Zubie#8

Zubie#8

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,724 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:09 PM

I thought Alzner was absolutely AWFUL in the first round against the Rags.

 

EDIT: whoops I was thinking of Erskine haha nvm.


Edited by Zubie#8, 26 June 2013 - 04:10 PM.

  • 0

believe-zubrus.jpg

 


#957 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,420 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:13 PM

I'm with Daniel on this.  The Devils rarely pick in the top-10 (..with the these two years being an exception, I guess), they need to take advantage.  They NEED to try and get a special player.  Not a serviceable one.

 

im with you on this. Thats pretty much all we have in NJ and in our prospect pool "serviceable guys" except maybe 2-3 guys. At some point you need game changers


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#958 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,506 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:17 PM

It's not just the fact that we've got a rare draft position, Lou has to quit spending money on the Steve Sullivans and Cam Janssens. He's gotta move some pieces and bring in something from the market. Kovalchuk is the only outstanding player we have. The rest of the team is average to downright bad. Most of the recent Stanley cup winners have at least two players that are top level talent.


  • 0

#959 devilsrule33

devilsrule33

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,281 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:46 PM

Sorry to change the subject slightly, but just realized the Rangers don't pick to the 65th pick. That's disappointing that Sather escapes thunderous boos on TV (and that late into the draft, from the crowd too).


Edited by devilsrule33, 26 June 2013 - 06:44 PM.

  • 0

"The Stanley Cup has fallen from the Stars. The new millennium has its first Stanley Cup Champion, and it's the New Jersey Devils." Mike Miller calling the Devils winning the Stanley Cup.

"It goes to the captain and then there are handoffs during a skate around the ice" Mike Emrick as Scott Stevens is being presented the Stanley Cup.


#960 SMantzas

SMantzas

    Assistant Coach

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,929 posts

Posted 26 June 2013 - 04:59 PM

I think there's an obvious shift in team philosophy. With an uncertain financial future and aging players on the way out the Devils are building a big, young D. I foresee a Nashville and Phoenix-esque team that doesn't give up a lot of chances but doesn't necessarily give them up. Although we don't have sure fire young offensive stars we know Josefson, Henrique and Mateau should be at least serviceable in the future. Unless they breakout in the next few years, they shouldn't be too expensive in the future.

Enter our first round pick. We could swing for the fences and choose Shinkaruk or Domi, but I think Lou likes "safer" picks. Horvat has Mike Richards/Patrice Bergeron upside and will face tough competition. He probably has the greatest chance of having a lengthy NHL career in the range of 8-15.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users