102 replies to this topic

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

You can include a lot of other players besides Parise as the price for the Kovy acquisition. It changed the culture of the team under Lemaire and lead to a locker room mutiny as Kovy got preferential treatment.

Daniel already tackled this, but this is pretty silly. Blaming Kovy for Langs sulking is wild speculation based on nothing other than your single minded desire to blame everything that has gone wrong with the Devils on Kovy's acquisition (not even his signing, just the acquisition).

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 13 December 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Daniel]

Daniel already tackled this, but this is pretty silly. Blaming Kovy for Langs sulking is wild speculation based on nothing other than your single minded desire to blame everything that has gone wrong with the Devils on Kovy's acquisition (not even his signing, just the acquisition).

LOL. The Devils could win four cups in a row, it'll still be fluke.

[MantaRay]

Daniel already tackled this, but this is pretty silly. Blaming Kovy for Langs sulking is wild speculation based on nothing other than your single minded desire to blame everything that has gone wrong with the Devils on Kovy's acquisition (not even his signing, just the acquisition).

LOL. This is pretty silly. Langs was unfortunatly scapegoated for expressing the teams displeasure (as Captain) and exposing the complete hypocrisy of the organizations long term standards. But this is just one of the many issues in the chain.

If we win 4 Cups in a row, then this would be considered a great deal. Until then this is just another deal to be evaluated overtime.

[sundstrom]

You can include a lot of other players besides Parise as the price for the Kovy acquisition. It changed the culture of the team under Lemaire and lead to a locker room mutiny as Kovy got preferential treatment.

this is 100% untrue. not only was kovy NEVER a locker room issue, he is a well respected member of the locker room.

The locker room mutiny I think you're referring to had nothing to do with Kovalchuk. (I have yet to hear anyone on the team, even anonomously say Kovy is a bad teammate or a cancer). It was a rift between Langs and Lemaire that well predated Kovy even coming to the team. And even if you're right, the mutiny started to pay huge dividends when Langs was traded and Lemaire came back. It's really impossible to dispute that the 2010-2011 failure was 95 percent attributable to MacLean.

And, Parise aside, there is not a single player that the Devils were unable to get/retain because of Kovalchuk. And even Parise, as an opportunity cost is not a certainty.

The fourth line, "inflating" Kovy? LOL. You remember Carter's game winning goal in Game 5? I seem to recall that the whole thing was set up by Kovy's aggressive forechecking.

this pretty much nails it. the 09-10 team issues in the room were all about lou's cap issues and langenbrunner. that lou tried to trade him in the offseason and langs said no put a bad cloud over the whole season because white, rolston, parise, and zajac were all langenbrunner disciples. and even though it was kovy's $6MM cap that made it an issue, NOBODY blamed him.

edit: i wanted to come back and also acknowledge the fact that MacLean was simply an awful coach - that team had no idea what it was doing under him. this is also 100% fact.

Edited by sundstrom, 13 December 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Zubie#8]

It feels like two years ago all over again. If people are still blaming Kovy for 2010-2011 then I do not even know what to say. If you cannot tell that Johnny Mac was 99% of the problem then you are crazy. There was absolutely no system, I remember the Red Wings game at home and there was absolutely no defense, they left Datsyuk uncovered the entire game. That coach was a joke, that 'team' was a joke until Lemaire came back and gave the team an identity. If we had a good half season with the likes of Sestito Mair Pelley Rolston Tedenby Palmieri and Salmela then we will be solid with this group of guys with Deboer. Plus Lou is in a great position to trade a Dman for some depth or pick up a guy off of waivers or buyouts.

Kovalchuk a cancer? The fourth line inflating Kovalchuk?...

Edited by Zubie#8, 13 December 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[devilsrule33]

edit: i wanted to come back and also acknowledge the fact that MacLean was simply an awful coach - that team had no idea what it was doing under him. this is also 100% fact.

This from another source of yours? Maybe MacLean was a bad coach and maybe not. But that was an impossible situation for him to come into with everything you named and him being the good cop with so many of the players for so many years. Look back at the rosters being dressed those nights early in the year. It was a disaster.

Not sure why anyone even responds to Manta when it comes to anything Kovalchuk.

[MantaRay]

this is 100% untrue. not only was kovy NEVER a locker room issue, he is a well respected member of the locker room.

If your going to make up your own arguments to debate. Go for it.

[njd3b1ink]

If your going to make up your own arguments to debate. Go for it.

how is he making stuff up? Ive never heard any player say kovy is a bad teammate. In fact a lot of players on the devils say he's one of the best teammates they have ever had.

[Triumph]

This from another source of yours? Maybe MacLean was a bad coach and maybe not. But that was an impossible situation for him to come into with everything you named and him being the good cop with so many of the players for so many years. Look back at the rosters being dressed those nights early in the year. It was a disaster.

Lemaire got some better players but not by that much. It seems kinda clear that MacLean wasn't a good coach. It was an impossible situation to succeed perhaps, but that team should never have been close to as bad as it was.

['7']

Does anybody remember Lou pulling a fast one on Atlanta...I think they picked up Brylin in the entry draft and then Lou offers them some scrub and we get Brylin back. Not the best trade, but a sly move.

I'm not sure if this actually happened though. ha

[Zubie#8]

Kovy is such a bad guy he makes poor Marty hang out with him.
http://www.cbc.ca/pl.../ID/2239511154/

Clarkson: “He’s one of the best teammates I’ve ever had. He’s a very big-hearted person, he’s caring. He’s a great guy to have in this room. He’s just one of those guys that if a guy’s down, he goes over. I’ve had a bad night, and he comes over and laughs about it. He loosens things up.” Man what a phony that Clarkson is.

...oh and Ilya kills kittens.

Edited by Zubie#8, 13 December 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Triumph]

Does anybody remember Lou pulling a fast one on Atlanta...I think they picked up Brylin in the entry draft and then Lou offers them some scrub and we get Brylin back. Not the best trade, but a sly move.

I'm not sure if this actually happened though. ha

Yes, it did. Atlanta took Brylin, we traded them Sergei Vyskedevich and Kevin Dean to avoid that.

[sundstrom]

Does anybody remember Lou pulling a fast one on Atlanta...I think they picked up Brylin in the entry draft and then Lou offers them some scrub and we get Brylin back. Not the best trade, but a sly move.

I'm not sure if this actually happened though. ha

tri confirmed it but that is a great memory - very smart of lou there, obviously

[devilsfan26]

Although not the best Cam Janssen for Bryce Salvador worked out nicely.

Agreed, I'm surprised this deal wasn't mentioned earlier. Cam was a healthy scratch all season long, so we pretty much got Salvador for free, and then we ended up getting Janssen back anyway.

[devilsrule33]

Agreed, I'm surprised this deal wasn't mentioned earlier. Cam was a healthy scratch all season long, so we pretty much got Salvador for free, and then we ended up getting Janssen back anyway.

That was obviously a fantastic deal, but getting Janssen back sucked. He's the worst Devil since Eric Boulton or Andrew Peters, or Dan LaCouture, or Darren Langdon or Krzysztof Oliwa (the 2nd time).

Holy crap Lou...stop signing sh!tty goons that can't fight who end up always being dressed.

[NJDevs4978]

Agreed, I'm surprised this deal wasn't mentioned earlier. Cam was a healthy scratch all season long, so we pretty much got Salvador for free, and then we ended up getting Janssen back anyway.

It was mentioned much earlier in the thread.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 14 December 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[devilsfan26]

Crap, you're right, I missed it in my skimming through this thread.

[MantaRay]

how is he making stuff up? Ive never heard any player say kovy is a bad teammate. In fact a lot of players on the devils say he's one of the best teammates they have ever had.

Making ups stuff as in: I have never ONCE said that Kovy was a bad teammate,

In fact, for those paying attention, I have stated on numerous occassions how impressed I was with his earnest effort to fit, learn the system and be a good teammate.

I have never made any reference to Kovy the player (with the except his turnovers and his defensive lapses prior to coming here). My whole argument against the trade was the organizations attempt to fit what I considered a square peg (offense first player) in a round whole (Defense first style of play). That is it.

For those ACTUALLY following my statements the past few years I have only mentioned the Kovy "Acquistion" never the player.

I was commenting on the change in organizational dynamics and the resulting shift within the lockerroom (right or wrong), the financial problems attaining a position we did not need (our Defense was always my main concern), and the implosion of one of my favorite coaches in Jacques Lemaire in making bad decisions with Kovy to show he was "in charge" as the team tunned him out more and more.

For the final time it is too early to define this trade as a success or failure at this point in time.

[mouse]

Unless you also want to make the argument that signing Kovalchuk resulted in not re-signing Parise. That's been what TG has argued.

I feared that at the time of the trade, but the way things played out makes me more glad to have Kovy. Bascially, I think Zach was going to go to free agency. I think that the desire to play with Suter and near daddy had more of a pull on than the Devils, or even his money, not unlike Nieds' need to please Carol and Special Nieds (I'm more pissed at Zach for bsing us than I am at either of them for leaving, btw). Considering we offered Zach good money and it certainly appears Zach enjoyed playing on a line with Kovy, I don't see how Kovy made signing Zach any tougher. So assuming Zach would have left anyway, we're damn lucky we locked down a superstar winger long term.

Furthermore, if TG's right (and he obviously knows more than I do), I would rather have Kovy with his size and style of play long term than Zach, who has been great, but is an injury waiting to happen considering he's too small to take the beatings he needs for his garbage goals.

[Triumph]

For the final time it is too early to define this trade as a success or failure at this point in time.

The trade is a giant success, the contract is a giant question mark. Right now all Atlanta has to show for the deal was 2 years of Johnny Oduya, 1 year of Niclas Bergfors, 1 year of Radek Dvorak, a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, and Patrice Cormier. Given that Bergfors is the only significant money discount among these players, and draft picks are whatever - it's a great trade.