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#1 brickwall30

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice

According to TG and multiple other sources the NHL has preempted the NHLPA's attempt to force the leagues hand by threatening to file a disclaimer of interest. Instead the league is filing a claim that the PA is not negotiating in good faith because of that threat. Major backfire for the players IMO. If you aren't familiar with the legal jargon (i know i wasn't) check the link to TSN. They did a great summary of what it is and what it means and the whole bit from back when there was rumors they were considering this back around thanksgiving.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410312
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#2 chrisg19

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

Look I am not siding with the owners, but the players are fools to be following Fehr at this point. Fehr is "a negotiator" , but he is an attorney first, and most attorneys will keep up the fight for ever, especially one who has no ties to whether or not the NHL ever plays again. The players better well understand that he will have no problem taking this thing right over the cliff. The scariest thing is, I think the owners also don't have a problem with that. Today was paycheck day, #5 of 13. So that means roughly 40% of this seasons salaries are gone, to never return. This thing really gets in the courts, this season is gone, and probably a couple more. By the time it comes back most of these players will be done. I'm not saying what the owners are asking for is right, just that at a certain point many of these players will be left with nothing. Fools....
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#3 Colin226

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:54 PM

I really don't see why the players should have to just lay down right now and give up on the issues that are important to them.. They hired Fehr, a well-known tough negotiator, to advocate for them and get these issues in the next CBA.. Why should they give in because the owners won't? If they do, then they set a precedent that the owners can continue to play hardball in the future and wait for the players to give up

The players have collectively shown that this CBA represents more than their immediate best interests, it's partially about getting a deal and setting precedents that are good for future players and I find it incredibly admirable that they're willing to lose some money for it
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#4 Triumph

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 07:29 PM

Colin's got it, but beyond that, they hired Fehr to tell them what to do in this case. The owners' best deal has yet to come. And if it's going to be a 10 year CBA, Fehr had better make damn sure it's the best one he can get, because he won't have another crack at it.

The players' only leverage is threatening the season themselves. That's what they're doing now.
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#5 aylbert

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:42 PM

Its very simple. If the collective owners dont want to give what the collective players want, they wont. The players cant break the owners... the owners can easily break the union by time alone.

Take the deal... or wait longer and take a worse deal (like
last time). The NHL was ready for this, and all the talks of getting this into a pro labor court can stope now.
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#6 Triumph

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

Its very simple. If the collective owners dont want to give what the collective players want, they wont. The players cant break the owners... the owners can easily break the union by time alone.

Take the deal... or wait longer and take a worse deal (like
last time). The NHL was ready for this, and all the talks of getting this into a pro labor court can stope now.


The deal the players union got was way better in July of 2005 than it was at any other point. It cost the current players more but rewarded future players far more. Remember, the NHL was offering a DELINKED cap of $42M in February 2005.
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#7 NJDevs4978

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer. We'll see how good a lawyer Fehr really is now going against the mafia lawfirm of Bettman/Daly and Batterman.

The full class-action suit:

http://www.sportsnet.../nhlvsnhlpa.pdf

Edited by NJDevs4978, 14 December 2012 - 11:25 PM.

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#8 Zubie#8

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

NHL using the PA's own words and beliefs for their own benefit...love it. B )
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#9 NJDevs4978

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:37 PM

NHL using the PA's own words and beliefs for their own benefit...love it. B )


On the one hand I can't get enough of Fehr and the PA getting their a$$ handed to it. On the other hand, I do agree with the unionites that the owners can't be allowed to just dictate a CBA without any real 'negotiation'.

This must be what a Ranger-Flyer Stanley Cup Final would feel like. You want to revel in one going down in flames, but that means the other's going to win. And this is one side of rich fvcks (Rangers) against another side of slightly less rich but more whiny fvcks (Flyers). Come to think of it, that's actually not too far off from what both teams really are :P

Edited by NJDevs4978, 14 December 2012 - 11:38 PM.

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#10 Triumph

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer. We'll see how good a lawyer Fehr really is now going against the mafia lawfirm of Bettman/Daly and Batterman.

The full class-action suit:

http://www.sportsnet.../nhlvsnhlpa.pdf


The NHL doesn't want this going to court. Kessler has the right quotes here: http://www.winnipegf...-183470231.html

"With Kessler at the helm, NBA players filed a disclaimer of interest while they were locked out in November 2011. Almost immediately, the owners changed their stance on 'maybe 15 or 20 different issues,' according to Kessler."
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#11 njd3b1ink

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:07 PM

The NHL doesn't want this going to court. Kessler has the right quotes here: http://www.winnipegf...-183470231.html

"With Kessler at the helm, NBA players filed a disclaimer of interest while they were locked out in November 2011. Almost immediately, the owners changed their stance on 'maybe 15 or 20 different issues,' according to Kessler."

Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against. They are saying they are just using this as a threat in negotiations, and therefore not negotiating in good faith. I dont see who kessler's quote here helps the players in anyway.
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#12 Triumph

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:28 PM

Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against. They are saying they are just using this as a threat in negotiations, and therefore not negotiating in good faith. I dont see who kessler's quote here helps the players in anyway.


The NBA filed the same suit in August 2011 - and I mean literally, word for word, many sections are exactly the same, although they didn't have a bunch of quotes to back them up - the NBAPA didn't disclaim until November 2011. It still worked.

Edited by Triumph, 15 December 2012 - 12:31 PM.

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#13 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

Yeah, good luck to the players trying to win this in court when they had Ryan Miller and others spouting off about decertification publicly WEEKS ago, before the PA ever made a real offer.


Isnt kessler saying right there that this is just a ploy to get more in negotiations? Im pretty sure that is what the NHL is arguing against.


I don't understand the law and I do think this is a ploy by the NHLPA, but I simply do not understand how a court could rule that a union does not have the ability to disclaim interest / decertify. That seems absolutely fundamental to the entire concept of unions. Also I don't understand why negotiation ploys are necessarily off limits and a court could prevent a union from trying to get the best deal by any legal means necessary.

The NHLPA tried to negotiate, it hasn't worked, they've missed 5 pay checks. Doesn't that justify on the face disclaimining interest / decertifying? If collective bargaining has failed to get this players employment so far I don't see how they could argue this move is unjustified and not negotiating in good faith. It all seems like empty threats from the NHL to me.
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#14 LucifersDog

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

I really don't see why the players should have to just lay down right now and give up on the issues that are important to them.. They hired Fehr, a well-known tough negotiator, to advocate for them and get these issues in the next CBA.. Why should they give in because the owners won't? If they do, then they set a precedent that the owners can continue to play hardball in the future and wait for the players to give up

The players have collectively shown that this CBA represents more than their immediate best interests, it's partially about getting a deal and setting precedents that are good for future players and I find it incredibly admirable that they're willing to lose some money for it


Amen, right on
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#15 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

http://www.torontosu...nhlpa-dissolves

mmm is this legit?

"The NHL requests a declaration that, if the NHLPA's decertification or disclaimer were not deemed invalid by the NLRB, and the collective bargaining relationship between the parties were not otherwise to continue, all existing contracts between NHL players and NHL teams (known as Standard Player's Contracts or "SPCs") would be void and unenforceable," wrote the league.


Edited by SterioDesign, 15 December 2012 - 08:40 PM.

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#16 Triumph

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 09:58 PM

No, that won't happen, just an attempt to scare the PA.
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#17 SterioDesign

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 02:06 AM

No, that won't happen, just an attempt to scare the PA.


Yeah well if YOU know that well Fehr knows it too

fvck those godamn games they are playing
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#18 moustic

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:14 PM

Does it really scare the players ? All players free agent with no salary cap in place ?

Worst bluff ever ?
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#19 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

Does it really scare the players ? All players free agent with no salary cap in place ?

Worst bluff ever ?


It would scare a lot of players who are in favorable contract situations (like say Anton Volchenkov). Also losing your job is scary no matter how good you are at it.
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#20 moustic

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

http://sports.nation..._medium=twitter

It would scare a lot of players who are in favorable contract situations (like say Anton Volchenkov). Also losing your job is scary no matter how good you are at it.


You are totally right... fair enough !
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