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It has been awhile...(2013 Starting Roster Discussion)


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#181 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:39 PM

I don't think people quite understand how little the Devils got from their fluke scorers like Clarkson and Sykora in the playoffs. Granted, they got a ton out of people like Gionta, Carter, and Salvador, who aren't going to repeat their performance. But Clarkson had 3 goals in the playoffs, one of which was the one Ilya Bryzgalov put off his stick. The Devils got basically nothing out of Zajac and Josefson last year, and I think that will change this year.


I think we're overlooking the fact that guys like Clarkson and Sykora were one of many reasons we made the playoffs. Without them we're out 50 goals and probably some points too.
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#182 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

I think we're overlooking the fact that guys like Clarkson and Sykora were one of many reasons we made the playoffs. Without them we're out 50 goals and probably some points too.


The Devils got 2 goals from their entire 4th line. They got 8 goals from the 3rd line LW. They got 8 goals from the 3rd line C. They got 16 goals from defensemen. I expect all of these sources to increase their goal production relative to what they did last year. It may not be enough, but last year was a very strange year in many respects (the year before, too, obviously).
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#183 coldply123

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

Perhaps "bombed" was a bad word to use. The book is still to be written on some guys, but it's been underwhelming thus far, and I have to disagree on Tedenby, as I do view him as a lost cause. Thus far, he has not exhibited himself to be able to play in the NHL in any capacity. When he was up here, he was playing undisciplined and had to be benched and thus far he cannot even produce in the AHL which really is a terrible sign, when you also account for the fact that his time is pretty much up this year to either make it or break it. Urbom has yet to crack the NHL so in reality he probably should be left off the list for now, but there's a glut of defensemen in our system with not too many spots opening up, so I'm not sure he's going to pan out for the Devils at the very least, despite the fact I really liked him when I watched him a bit. Urbom might be a logical candidate for packaging in a trade.

Larsson is obviously the linchpin of the bunch. I have very high hopes as I'm sure all of us do for him developing. I also really like Josefson, but I'm not sure he's going to take that "next step" as Tri alludes to above and that's not a knock on him, just a lot of caution considering he has yet to stay healthy and put together a full season and I'm not sure he's going to be a comparable as a #2 C, but we will see.
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#184 coldply123

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:14 PM

I think we're overlooking the fact that guys like Clarkson and Sykora were one of many reasons we made the playoffs. Without them we're out 50 goals and probably some points too.


Yes, but that's also because DeBoer gave them incredible amounts of ice time throughout a good portion of the year, so that does have to be taken into account here, with the full grant that they did provide some nice production (which is the most important thing). Clarkson clearly ended up playing hurt throughout the entire playoffs. He looked crippled on some of his shifts. While you have to admire it, there were times especially in the Rangers and Kings serie, I felt his presence on the ice became a detriment where he was caught in the offensive zone or missed pucks.

Sykora was pretty close to being gassed the last 15-20 games of the year though. Even when he was scoring the occasional goal, he was negative value in other areas as he was soft along the boards, lost quite a few pucks, and also was not much of a skater, relying on Zubrus and Elias to do the dirty work in the corners and carrying the puck into the zone. Outside of the one goal in the Flyers series, I thought Sykora was our worst forward.
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#185 Zubie#8

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

To be fair Sykora had two big goals in that Flyer series. He tied the game in that crazy first game loss and he had a big goal when we were down 2-0 early in game 4.
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#186 mouse

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:25 PM

mouse: I think you are sleeping on Josefson - he has been really good in the AHL. He's still only 21 and he had 20 points in 30 games with 2.75 shots per game and a +10. He's a 3rd line center in the NHL now - it's just a question whether he takes that next step.


I'm not so much questioning his ability as his ability to stay on the ice. I think unless he has somebody out there with him who can raise some hell, he's got a big ass target on his back, hence I'd like to see him on a line with Clarkson. As far as ability goes, I was more talking about Tedenby, who put together his best stretch of hockey playing with Clarkson.
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#187 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

In 121 pro games in North America, Josefson is +27. He's gotten a ton of luck - I wouldn't expect him to be +10 in his next 121 pro games, but still. He was killing penalties last year before his 21st birthday. I think he's going to be an excellent defensive forward. I try not to think of players in terms of 2nd line/3rd line, but my questions would be about his goal scoring and offense - his defense will certainly play, he doesn't need to provide too much more offense to be a valuable 16-18 minute player at the NHL level.

mouse: He's had broken bones, but he hasn't had muscle pulls or strains or anything else that would suggest he is injury prone in the long-term.

Edited by Triumph, 09 January 2013 - 10:28 PM.

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#188 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

I think y'all are missing the point. Clarkson and Sykora did eventually flame out, but they put up solid offense which in turn led us to the playoffs. Sykora, maybe he's too old, but Clarkson has a history with DeBoer and I'm sure that had a hand in his improved offense. I'm not saying Clarkson will put up 30 goals again, but I wouldn't be shocked if he puts up 20 during a full season.
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#189 Devils731

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

In Tedenby's draft year there are only 7 players drafted after him that have played more NHL games. There are 9 players drafted ahead of him that have played less games.

Tedenby has 14 points in 28 AHL games this season, and from what I've read he's playing on the 3rd line which has been put in a checking role. Josefson has 20 points in 30 games and has been playing with the offensive guys on the team. Tedenby is also outscoring Chris Kreider, who I think Ranger fans have putting up 30 goals this season :lol:

I don't think you write a guy off who has unique abilities at 23, who had a decent rookie season and I think if you look at his draft year, this pick wasn't some horrible screw up as there weren't many guys after him that were easy picks and there were more ahead of him that haven't done as much.
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#190 Devils731

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

I think y'all are missing the point. Clarkson and Sykora did eventually flame out, but they put up solid offense which in turn led us to the playoffs. Sykora, maybe he's too old, but Clarkson has a history with DeBoer and I'm sure that had a hand in his improved offense. I'm not saying Clarkson will put up 30 goals again, but I wouldn't be shocked if he puts up 20 during a full season.


Clarkson played a lot of 1st PP time last season. The second unit was a horror show last year so that would have been probably 4 or 5 goals and 9 or 10 points off Clarkson's total if he hadn't been on the first unit and that's with Clarkson playing exactly the same.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

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#191 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:39 PM

I've always like Clarkson despite his tendency to fall and be a puck hog. He's cut from an old school cloth that you don't see anymore and he's got "loyal Devil" written all over him. With the Parises and Kovys coming and going I think he should be appreciated a little bit more.
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#192 mouse

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

mouse: He's had broken bones, but he hasn't had muscle pulls or strains or anything else that would suggest he is injury prone in the long-term.


Fair, but he's still a fairly skinny finesse player. I would try to push him around if I were a coach. I feel more comfortable giving him some protection. This would be easier if we still had Poni.
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#193 Devils731

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

I've always like Clarkson despite his tendency to fall and be a puck hog. He's cut from an old school cloth that you don't see anymore and he's got "loyal Devil" written all over him. With the Parises and Kovys coming and going I think he should be appreciated a little bit more.


What's great about Clarkson is also what stops him from being an even better player. Clarkson can be a one man show, he's getting those garbage goals from working hard, he's winning puck control on the boards, and he's putting pucks at the net. Clarkson doesn't do that much better when you put him with really good linemates and Clarkson's linemates don't benefit that much when they play with Clarkson. So Clarkson is helping your team the most when you put him with the lesser players on the team and let him do this thing, while the top guys are hopefully creating a synergy that boosts the top 2 lines to greater things.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


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The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

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#194 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:42 PM

In Tedenby's draft year there are only 7 players drafted after him that have played more NHL games. There are 9 players drafted ahead of him that have played less games.

Tedenby has 14 points in 28 AHL games this season, and from what I've read he's playing on the 3rd line which has been put in a checking role. Josefson has 20 points in 30 games and has been playing with the offensive guys on the team. Tedenby is also outscoring Chris Kreider, who I think Ranger fans have putting up 30 goals this season :lol:

I don't think you write a guy off who has unique abilities at 23, who had a decent rookie season and I think if you look at his draft year, this pick wasn't some horrible screw up as there weren't many guys after him that were easy picks and there were more ahead of him that haven't done as much.


That's all well and good, but besides Teders inconsistency in the O department he's not very strong on the puck.
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#195 Devils731

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

Fair, but he's still a fairly skinny finesse player. I would try to push him around if I were a coach. I feel more comfortable giving him some protection. This would be easier if we still had Poni.


I'm not sure why having Clarkson or Poni on the ice would protect Josefson from getting a broken bone. Those players don't get to take the hits that Josefson is about to receive. I don't think a NHL player is going to pass up a chance to hit Josefson because a guy on his line has a bigger body.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#196 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

What's great about Clarkson is also what stops him from being an even better player. Clarkson can be a one man show, he's getting those garbage goals from working hard, he's winning puck control on the boards, and he's putting pucks at the net. Clarkson doesn't do that much better when you put him with really good linemates and Clarkson's linemates don't benefit that much when they play with Clarkson. So Clarkson is helping your team the most when you put him with the lesser players on the team and let him do this thing, while the top guys are hopefully creating a synergy that boosts the top 2 lines to greater things.


Clarkson can do really well if you put him with guys like Poni, Zubrus, Sykora or Elias. He did only get 3 goals in the playoffs, but he was good for 9 assists. He's also showed flourishes of being a solid set up man. He had some dandy assists this season.
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#197 Devils731

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Clarkson can do really well if you put him with guys like Poni, Zubrus, Sykora or Elias. He did only get 3 goals in the playoffs, but he was good for 9 assists. He's also showed flourishes of being a solid set up man. He had some dandy assists this season.


Only one of those guys is really a solid top line guy, Elias. Maybe it's easier to see at the games, but Clarkson has a few set things and he does those same things almost every time, that's not conducive to creative offensive play that you want your top lines to be able to do. Once in a blue moon he'll do something different than one of his presets, but it's not going to happen often.
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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#198 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

I'm not saying that Clarkson is going to replace Parise on the top line, but I could see him getting 2nd line time. Especially if Lou doesn't do anything to replace Parise, someone is going to have to be up on that first line whether it's Elias or Zubrus or whoever else.
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#199 '7'

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

I don't think people quite understand how little the Devils got from their fluke scorers like Clarkson and Sykora in the playoffs. Granted, they got a ton out of people like Gionta, Carter, and Salvador, who aren't going to repeat their performance. But Clarkson had 3 goals in the playoffs, one of which was the one Ilya Bryzgalov put off his stick. The Devils got basically nothing out of Zajac and Josefson last year, and I think that will change this year.



Never happen. The Devils aren't going to replace Parise, so they can forget about that now, but they weren't a fluke in the playoffs - they were outplaying teams by a considerable margin. They don't have the ability to get that kind of scorer, but they can certainly get a stopgap - they should be looking to replace Ponikarovsky, not Parise.


Parise was a part of that though. With his tenacious board work, chipping pucks past defenders to create 2 on 1's, winning battles and keeping the cycle going in the offensive zone. He was a workhorse for us all over the ice.

Ponikarovsky may be replaced by himself with Lou's penchant for reacquiring old spare parts.

Grabner from NYI is the guy to watch. I sincerely hope he gets off to a slow start or hits a streak of bad luck. They'll be calling him a one year wonder and the Isles will look to move him. He's the home run hitter I want here.
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#200 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

731: He shouldn't be on a 3rd line in the AHL. He should be on a 1st line. He's waiver-eligible next year. He has unique talents but I don't see how an NHL player comes out of what he is. He has 2 shots per game for god's sake.

^7^: I agree with that, you won't find me underrating Parise's contributions. My point is that you don't find guys like that very often, anywhere - I think Henrique plays a similar game, and yeah, he won't be Parise, but if he can be 75% of the player in his prime, and the Devils get better in other parts of the roster, they'll be all right.

Edited by Triumph, 09 January 2013 - 11:07 PM.

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