161 replies to this topic

['7']

Jets also sign RB Mike Goodson from the Raiders

 

good pickup. True explosive playmaker with amazing speed. Can he be an every down guy? Well at worst I think he can be what Leon Washington was for us

[MantaRay]

From I have read, most teams realize how desperate the Jets are to unload Revis, not too many teams want "the baggage" that comes with him, especially after last years injury, and the teams that were interested have moved on. Don't see them getting anything greater than this. Goodson is a career backup on losing teams. Jets will only be able to attract this low end option, considering Rex is done after this year.

[NJDevs4978]

That's not the whole story and you know it.  Fact is the market being flooded with other CB's like Asomugha, etc is also driving the Revis price down.  If there are other decent options where you only have to pay money as opposed to paying a lot more money and high pick(s) for a premium, most teams will opt for the former.  Once those other guys come off the market then you'll see a couple of teams who missed out on the B options get desperate to overpay for the A option.

 

I don't see why the Jets can't just hold onto him for the first few weeks, then trade him before the deadline once he proves he's healthy and elite again and after some other teams start losing guys though.  Unless they're that afraid he won't be what he was.  I'm just sick and tired of us always having to trade our talented players.  Hugh Douglas, John Abraham, Keyshawn, Vilma, now Revis.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 15 March 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[MantaRay]

Not sure what I missed. I said teams that were interested have moved on, implying that there is more on the marketplace. But, not of the stature of Revis.

['7']

Jets have signed NT Antonio Garay as well as OT Willie Colon from Pittsburgh. Both are low risk high reward, and above average at their position when healthy.

[MantaRay]

Colon is a smart pick-up.

[MantaRay]

What a lukewarm response by Woody Johnson on keeping Revis at the GM Meetings.

['7']

Jets are apparently close to signing Antwan Barnes

['7']

What a lukewarm response by Woody Johnson on keeping Revis at the GM Meetings.

 

And you expected what? They are trying to trade him, you can't come out and say that nor can you say YES HE'LL BE A JET FOREVER because that's not looking like the case. Woody's comments were fine

[Beezer34]

What a lukewarm response by Woody Johnson on keeping Revis at the GM Meetings.

It was interesting hearing the new GM speak in Arizona yesterday regarding some of the roster moves thus-far.
Idzik said he felt Willie Colon's backside awareness was identical to Moore's. He praised Antonio Garay's momentum pressing opponents OL.. and compared his "contact with QB after the throw" to that of Pouha. He also said Mike Goodson's "1st downs per touch" equaled Greene & Kellers. (so essentially, one player fills the void of two?) Now I'd gather that the Barnes is set to replace Pace.

I want to believe Idzik's just selling the fans a bunch of sh!t here, (particularly when he plugs Tebow) but the statistics he's using to gauge players demonstrates sabermetrics. Backside awareness? OL contact? 1st downs per touch?? These are more analytical evaluations than just: *sacks, *yards, *TD's, etc.
..I don't know if Goodson, Colon, Barnes, & Garay can just step in and fill the gaps seamlessly. However.. I can't say I disagree with Idzik playing moneyball on a team\roster that the previous General Manager completely wiped his ass with.

Edited by Beezer34, 18 March 2013 - 05:01 PM.

['7']

It's official, Barnes is a Jet signing a very team friendly contract. 900k signing bonus, 1.2 mil in year 2 and 1.2 mil in year 3.

 

re: Idzik plugging Tebow.

 

He has to, if you're trying to trade he guy you have to make it look like he is a commodity of value even if he isn't. The Jets can cut Tebow and save on the salary cap, but that's a last resort. What they're trying to do now is unload the salary in a trade and get a low pick for him

[NJDevs4978]

Somewhat OT, I'm not as resistent to sabermetrics in football as I am in baseball or hockey, I don't know why.  Maybe in the case of baseball, that sport's always been dependent on regular statistics for so long, and I think some of the new age stats certainly have merit but others are just stats for the sake of having different stats imo.  Hockey, there's just too many different variables from game to game and team to team for me to take sabermetrics seriously at this point.

 

Maybe it's because the NFL isn't as dependent on stats as the other two sports are to start with.  Especially with guards and nose tackles, who has 'normal' stats for those guys anyway? 

[Daniel]

Somewhat OT, I'm not as resistent to sabermetrics in football as I am in baseball or hockey, I don't know why. Maybe in the case of baseball, that sport's always been dependent on regular statistics for so long, and I think some of the new age stats certainly have merit but others are just stats for the sake of having different stats imo. Hockey, there's just too many different variables from game to game and team to team for me to take sabermetrics seriously at this point.

Maybe it's because the NFL isn't as dependent on stats as the other two sports are to start with. Especially with guards and nose tackles, who has 'normal' stats for those guys anyway?

Most of the advanced stats in football are ridiculous. Maybe QBR means something, but otherwise you really need to use your eyes and common sense.

They're shaky enough in hockey.

['7']

Most of the advanced stats in football are ridiculous. Maybe QBR means something, but otherwise you really need to use your eyes and common sense.

They're shaky enough in hockey.

 

You do have a point there. The bigtime playmakers (perhaps in hockey they would be play "drivers" or whatever it's called) are very obvious to the naked eye. Brandon Marshall, Dez, Brady, Megatron etc.

 

However in the NFL a lot of stats can be compiled in garbage time. Yards, sacks, TD's...when teams just flat out stop playing and try to run the clock out. In hockey it's tough to rack up garbage points.

['7']

Also, Jets seem to be interested in Darrius Heyward-Bey. He had a good season in 2011 under Sanjay Lal, our current WR coach. Seems like a natural fit. Still young, untapped potential, and a coach that had him going in the right direction. They should sign him

[Daniel]

You do have a point there. The bigtime playmakers (perhaps in hockey they would be play "drivers" or whatever it's called) are very obvious to the naked eye. Brandon Marshall, Dez, Brady, Megatron etc.

 

However in the NFL a lot of stats can be compiled in garbage time. Yards, sacks, TD's...when teams just flat out stop playing and try to run the clock out. In hockey it's tough to rack up garbage points.

 

The big difference between football and the other major sports in the US is that coaching and supporting cast is much more important than in any of the other sports.  For example, before he got to New England, Wes Welker was a pretty good player on the Dolphins but nothing spectacluar.  When he went to NE, he didn't all of the sudden grow into his body, put on more muscle or anything like that.  He played in a system that would make any quick slot receiver put up monster numbers and be a nightmare for opposing defenses.  If he went to any other team besides the Broncos, or maybe Green Bay, I bet there would be a huge drop off in his numbers and he'd be much less noticeable on the field.

 

You could say the same things even about most QBs.  Do you think that Brady or even Montana would even be perennial Pro Bowlers had they been thrown into the fire playing for the 2001 Texans?  Frankly, I don't even know if they would have lasted as starters for all that long.  (A conversation for another day, but that's why I'll always say Peyton Manning is better than Brady and Montana, in that he was thrown into the fire immediately, and could take an expansion team with mediocre coaching and turn them into a Super Bowl contender.  The Niners won a Super Bowl and were perennial contenders when Montana left, and the Patriots finished 10-6 with a mediocre backup in Matt Cassell) 

 

In football, you really have to use your eyes.  A lot of what Vince Wilfork does will not show up on any stat sheet that I can think of.  Watch a game though, and you'll know how good he is. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Daniel, what you're forgetting about the Patriots re:  Brady...in Belichick's first 18 games (with Bledsoe as the starting QB), the Pats went 5-13, and were looking every bit like a team that should go 5-13.  It didn't look like they were going to improve significantly anytime soon.  An informal poll of GMs said, going into the 2001-02 season, that the Patriots would be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years.  Brady definitely had training wheels on when he came in for an injured Bledsoe that first season (Brady's second in the NFL), but he was a huge reason why the Patriots suddenly went from a team that looked like they were going to have a rough time for a few years to a three-time Super Bowl winner.  The biggest difference was his ability to read defenses...Bledsoe was slow in this regard.  When Bledsoe was the starting QB in Belichick's tenure, the feeling was that the Pats' offensive line needed serious re-tooling before the Pats could contend.  When Brady took over, suddenly, just like that, the line was no longer an issue. 

 

Re:  getting "thrown into the fire"...Brady was a 6th-round pick who was never supposed to have gotten the shot that he did.  He only got one because Bledsoe was injured.  Even though Bledsoe could be a maddening player (especially with his annual seasonal second-half dropoffs), almost to a fan, anyone who supported NE at the time thought he gave the team the best chance to win.  Not one NE fan thought the team would be better off when Brady first came into that game against the Jets...how could we?  One guy was picked 199th overall and was a complete unknown, the guy who got hurt was a 1st-overall and had had some success.  Brady DID get thrown into the fire, and helped a team that NO ONE thought had even a remote chance of winning Super Bowl do just that. 

 

As for Manning, like Bledsoe, he was picked #1 overall.  With pedigrees like theirs, guys like them are always going to get thrown into the fire...QBs picked that high are only picked as such because they are projected long-term franchise QBs.  That's how it goes.  When you're a #1 overall drafted in the first round and you're a QB, chances are very high you're going to start right off the bat.  When you're a 6th-rounder and 198 guys are chosen before you, and the guy playing ahead of you is considered to be the franchise (as Bledsoe was at that time, flaws and all), it's going to take either 1) that guy playing so badly that the coach doesn't have a choice but to give the backup a shot, or 2) that guy getting hurt and leaving his coach with no other choice.  Brady getting a shot was never going to be in Brady's hands...he needed something to break his way, and when Bledsoe was hurt, he got that break.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 20 March 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[MantaRay]

Brady is a great example of working hard to prepare for when the moment hits.

[Daniel]

Daniel, what you're forgetting about the Patriots re:  Brady...in Belichick's first 18 games (with Bledsoe as the starting QB), the Pats went 5-13, and were looking every bit like a team that should go 5-13.  It didn't look like they were going to improve significantly anytime soon.  An informal poll of GMs said, going into the 2001-02 season, that the Patriots would be the least likely team to win a Super Bowl in the next five years.  Brady definitely had training wheels on when he came in for an injured Bledsoe that first season (Brady's second in the NFL), but he was a huge reason why the Patriots suddenly went from a team that looked like they were going to have a rough time for a few years to a three-time Super Bowl winner.  The biggest difference was his ability to read defenses...Bledsoe was slow in this regard.  When Bledsoe was the starting QB in Belichick's tenure, the feeling was that the Pats' offensive line needed serious re-tooling before the Pats could contend.  When Brady took over, suddenly, just like that, the line was no longer an issue. 

 

Re:  getting "thrown into the fire"...Brady was a 6th-round pick who was never supposed to have gotten the shot that he did.  He only got one because Bledsoe was injured.  Even though Bledsoe could be a maddening player (especially with his annual seasonal second-half dropoffs), almost to a fan, anyone who supported NE at the time thought he gave the team the best chance to win.  Not one NE fan thought the team would be better off when Brady first came into that game against the Jets...how could we?  One guy was picked 199th overall and was a complete unknown, the guy who got hurt was a 1st-overall and had had some success.  Brady DID get thrown into the fire, and helped a team that NO ONE thought had even a remote chance of winning Super Bowl do just that. 

 

As for Manning, like Bledsoe, he was picked #1 overall.  With pedigrees like theirs, guys like them are always going to get thrown into the fire...QBs picked that high are only picked as such because they are projected long-term franchise QBs.  That's how it goes.  When you're a #1 overall drafted in the first round and you're a QB, chances are very high you're going to start right off the bat.  When you're a 6th-rounder and 198 guys are chosen before you, and the guy playing ahead of you is considered to be the franchise (as Bledsoe was at that time, flaws and all), it's going to take either 1) that guy playing so badly that the coach doesn't have a choice but to give the backup a shot, or 2) that guy getting hurt and leaving his coach with no other choice.  Brady getting a shot was never going to be in Brady's hands...he needed something to break his way, and when Bledsoe was hurt, he got that break.

 

We're veering off topic, which is undoubtedly my fault, but all I'll say is, everything you're saying about Brady applies to Kurt Warner.  (I'm trying to find it, but I remember there was an espn the magazine page 2 mock of covers you weren't likely to see in three months titled "battering ram" with Kurt Warner after Trent Green went down in the preseason).  And Kurt Warner was a few points from being the only starting QB to win the Super Bowl with two teams, but also got benched by the Giants. 

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

We're veering off topic, which is undoubtedly my fault, but all I'll say is, everything you're saying about Brady applies to Kurt Warner.  (I'm trying to find it, but I remember there was an espn the magazine page 2 mock of covers you weren't likely to see in three months titled "battering ram" with Kurt Warner after Trent Green went down in the preseason).  And Kurt Warner was a few points from being the only starting QB to win the Super Bowl with two teams, but also got benched by the Giants. 

 

Yeah, that was pretty much my point...there are guys who have the physical ability in all sports, as we've seen, but for a number of reasons get overlooked and only get the chance to show what they can do when Plan A goes horribly wrong.  

 

Sanchez was a Plan A guy...where he was drafted made that a certainty, that he was going to get multiple years to prove himself, no matter what, and get to do it right away.  The Plan B guys don't enjoy that luxury...they have to work at it and hope they can shine when the chance comes their way.  Not implying that Plan A guys don't work just as hard...Peyton Manning is a testament to that...just saying Plan B types really have to not only work their asses off to get a look, but they need some breaks (often one that's unfortunate for a teammate) to get a shot.