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#141 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:47 AM

The Woody Johnson hate is a bit misguided. He's not a perfect owner, but he's much better than Hess. Look at the Jets records since Johnson became owner. It's better than league average. 

 

With Johnson we have a hiccup and are then good again

 

With Hess we went through endless stretches of horrible play. And not 6-10 bad. 1-15, 3-13, 4-12 bad.

 

This was a very weak draft for top end offensive talent, and Tavon Austin is a midget. Even smaller than Desean Jackson. He's not going up to get any footballs. And I'm not sure he can stand up to an NFL beating

 

Since 1997, the Jets are 134-122, and have made the playoffs 7 times in 16 seasons, including three AFC Championship games (0-3 in those games, but all were on the road, and the Jets weren't the favorite in any of them).  They've been .500 or better in 12 out of those 16 seasons.  It's not dynasty stuff, but it's far from embarrassing, and much better than what they were overall before '97.     

 

The problem with the Jets is when they DO fail, they do it in a way that seems to make for entertaining headline fodder and radio talk, which has a way of making the Jets seem like much a less successful franchise, and more of a laughingstock, than they've really been.  It also doesn't help that the Patriots seem put to up gaudy regular-season records almost every season...178-78 and 12 playoff appearances since '97.  But that kind of sustained success is very rare, and if the Patriots didn't have Brady (who only got a shot due to freak accident), it wouldn't have ever happened. 

 

The Giants are 141-115 over the same time frame (not really THAT much better in the regular season...7 wins difference over 16 years), with 8 playoff appearances, but they of course won the Big One twice, were the underdog both times, and pulled off one of the greatest Super Bowl upsets of all time, so the fact that they were one-and-done in five of those playoff appearances and failed to win a playoff game the season after winning the Super Bowl gets glossed over (by comparison, the Jets have won at least once playoff game in five out of their seven playoff appearances since '97).   

 

BTW, the Bills are 109-147 since '97, and haven't sniffed the playoffs since '99.  Haven't won a playoff game since '95.  Now THAT'S futility!


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 03 May 2013 - 07:48 AM.

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#142 MantaRay

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:49 AM

The Woody Johnson hate is a bit misguided. He's not a perfect owner, but he's much better than Hess. Look at the Jets records since Johnson became owner. It's better than league average. 

 

With Johnson we have a hiccup and are then good again

 

With Hess we went through endless stretches of horrible play. And not 6-10 bad. 1-15, 3-13, 4-12 bad.

 

This was a very weak draft for top end offensive talent, and Tavon Austin is a midget. Even smaller than Desean Jackson. He's not going up to get any footballs. And I'm not sure he can stand up to an NFL beating

 

I think a lot of Jets fans would heartily disagree with you on Johnson, especially season ticket holders.

 

Hess was not as greedy as Johnson and the fans are the ones now paying for Johnson in overpaying for the team.  Hess was the last owner not to make fans pay for exhibition games, what Johnson has impliemented is for increased parking fees, trying to mandate NO TAILGATING policies and PSL's.  

 

if Hess still owned the Jets their is no telling how great the Jets could have been with Parcells and Bellichek over the long term.

 

The only reason these two left was because they did not like Johnson.   Parcell's actually turned this laughing stock franchise around, Woody has basically changed to profile to that of an insecure management and now the team be forever associated with the "Clown Car".


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#143 '7'

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

I think a lot of Jets fans would heartily disagree with you on Johnson, especially season ticket holders.

 

Hess was not as greedy as Johnson and the fans are the ones now paying for Johnson in overpaying for the team.  Hess was the last owner not to make fans pay for exhibition games, what Johnson has impliemented is for increased parking fees, trying to mandate NO TAILGATING policies and PSL's.  

 

if Hess still owned the Jets their is no telling how great the Jets could have been with Parcells and Bellichek over the long term.

 

The only reason these two left was because they did not like Johnson.   Parcell's actually turned this laughing stock franchise around, Woody has basically changed to profile to that of an insecure management and now the team be forever associated with the "Clown Car".

 


Parcells turned the franchise around...why? Because he had to, because idiot Hess never gave Pete Carroll a fair shake, because Hess told Dick Steinberg he only wanted "family friendly" players. His daughter saw on TV that Rich Kotite had been fired in Philly and Leon just had to have him! Is that a good decision? How about choosing Walton over Walt Michaels to coach the team through the 80's (Walton steadily destroyed the solid foundation that was put in place from 1979-1982). Hess was an enormous screwup.

 

Ask the Jets fans from Queens to Montauk what they think about Hess.


if Hess still owned the Jets he would have been 99. He was 85 when he died. The Jets never had Brady so if Belichick stuck around I doubt the results would've been positive.

 

parcells didn't like Johnson but he was ok working for Jerry Jones? How does that make sense?


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#144 Daniel

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

I think a lot of Jets fans would heartily disagree with you on Johnson, especially season ticket holders.

 

Hess was not as greedy as Johnson and the fans are the ones now paying for Johnson in overpaying for the team.  Hess was the last owner not to make fans pay for exhibition games, what Johnson has impliemented is for increased parking fees, trying to mandate NO TAILGATING policies and PSL's.  

 

if Hess still owned the Jets their is no telling how great the Jets could have been with Parcells and Bellichek over the long term.

 

The only reason these two left was because they did not like Johnson.   Parcell's actually turned this laughing stock franchise around, Woody has basically changed to profile to that of an insecure management and now the team be forever associated with the "Clown Car".

 

No one was complaining about Woody Johnson a few years ago when the Jets drafted Sanchez and made it to those two championship games.  And no one was complaining when the Jets were 8-2 when Favre was brought in. 

 

From everything you hear, Johnson actually wants that stability that the Giants have coaching wise.  Sometimes to a fault in that he's probably kept Rex around longer than he should have.

 

There's also a lot of hypocrisy from Jets fans.  They all hate Sanchez, but the Jets end up drafting a QB in the second round that a lot of analysists thought was the best QB in the draft, and it's also an awful move.  Not every team is lucky enough to need a QB and be in a position to draft Andrew Luck or RGIII. 

 

So far as greed, if you had to plop down hundreds of millions for a new stadium, you need to recoup those costs somehow when you can only hope to play something like 8 to 10 home games in a particular year. 

 

Jets have a lot of problems.  The owner really has little to do with it. 


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#145 MantaRay

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:14 AM

I am not a Jet fan, but I have tons of friends who are/were long time season ticket holders and they can't stand what Woody has done to their team.   I can't only reflect on their travails comparing the two owners.   Perhaps it is the new business climate of sports more so than anything.


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#146 Daniel

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:39 AM

I am not a Jet fan, but I have tons of friends who are/were long time season ticket holders and they can't stand what Woody has done to their team.   I can't only reflect on their travails comparing the two owners.   Perhaps it is the new business climate of sports more so than anything.

 

There was really never this golden age of owners.  Maybe tickets didn't cost as much, but the players got paid very little in comparison to what owners brought in.  Jim Irsay moved the Colts out of Baltimore in the middle of the night (quite justifiably in my mind, considering the city of Baltimore essentially wanted to confiscate the team) and Art Modell (one of the old time owners) moved the Browns out of Cleveland.  I remember them selling "George Must Go" t-shirts outside of Yankee stadium in the early 90s.

 

Or you can look no further than the Devils.  I remember McMullen getting booed when the Devils won their first cup with the relocation rumors.  I remember fans complaining that he was the ultimate cheap skate when it came to player salaries.  Then we get VBK, who got a new arena, assured the team would stay in NJ and was willing to spend big money on players.  He overextended himself in the process, and now everyone hates him.  There's also Charles Wang.  The man has sunk a lot of his own money into the team and kept the Isles in New York even when he could have made more money selling to someone who would have moved the team.  Yet, according to some Isles fans, he's history's greatest monster.


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#147 MantaRay

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

Fair enough, I was just repeating the issues that my season ticket holding groups had.

 

As I stated, it's a different sports/business era than the Hess one.


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#148 losdiablos103

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:08 AM

As much as I love/loved what Parcells did for us, I will never ever ever forgive him for quitting on us.  

 

I HATE Woody Johnson with a burning passion and HATE the circus he has created. 

 

 But here's the thing with Hess.. HE HIRED RICHIE KOTITE!  


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#149 NJDevs4978

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:49 PM

And apparently David Garrard has to retire due to knee issues.  Too bad, he was at least a nice insurance policy in case Sanchez blew up and Geno wasn't ready.  But it looks like it's all down to Sanchez-Geno for the starting role now.

 

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Text from Garrard: "Having to call it quits. My knee is not holding up. Continuing to swell after practices. Limiting what I can do."

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#150 '7'

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:45 PM

And apparently David Garrard has to retire due to knee issues.  Too bad, he was at least a nice insurance policy in case Sanchez blew up and Geno wasn't ready.  But it looks like it's all down to Sanchez-Geno for the starting role now.

 

@AdamSchein



Quote:
Text from Garrard: "Having to call it quits. My knee is not holding up. Continuing to swell after practices. Limiting what I can do."

 

All of a sudden the drafting of Geno Smith doesn't look quite as bad....

 

I would still like another vet brought in from somewhere. Tyler Thigpen perhaps


Edited by '7', 15 May 2013 - 05:48 PM.

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#151 Beezer34

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:37 PM

All of a sudden the drafting of Geno Smith doesn't look quite as bad..
I would still like another vet brought in from somewhere. Tyler Thigpen perhaps.


..either that or Byron Leftwich. They're the only 2 QB's I would be alright with signing given our situation. Knowing the Headline-Jets though and how they go about doing things.. do not be a bit surprised if they do something insane, like bring back Tebow, or sign Vince Young.

I never thought David Garrard would last 'till July, so I can't say I'm that surprised. Hell of a player, former Probowler in his day.. but the guy was completely shot. He was done before Miami signed him last year.
The appropriate thing for the Jets to do now is nothing! Don't sign anybody. Put Sims on the practice squad like they were going to do anyway, and let Geno, McElroy & Sanchez duke it out in a 3-way comp.
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#152 NJDevs4978

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:20 PM

There's no shot they bring back Tebow, he's even hard-pressed to get backup offers from the Arena league.  I mean in a way it's like the poor kid's getting blackballed, with all the ****ty QB's around you'd figure someone would take a shot on him, but they just don't want the circus that comes attached especially considering what it did to us last year.

 

I do think it's pretty fortuitous that Garrard didn't retire before we cut Tebow or we might still have him :P



All of a sudden the drafting of Geno Smith doesn't look quite as bad....

 

I would still like another vet brought in from somewhere. Tyler Thigpen perhaps

 

Yeah, I never trusted Garrard to stay healthy anyways.  If we didn't draft Geno it'd be round two of the Mark/Tim circus again.


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#153 Beezer34

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:30 AM

There's no shot they bring back Tebow, he's even hard-pressed to get backup offers from the Arena league.  I mean in a way it's like the poor kid's getting blackballed, with all the ****ty QB's around you'd figure someone would take a shot on him, but they just don't want the circus that comes attached especially considering what it did to us last year.
 

 

The biggest obstacle standing in Tebow’s way is Tebow. He may come of has having humility, but his insistence on playing quarterback contradicts it. Likewise, Tim’s ego loves his cult-following.. otherwise he’d embrace changing positions. As rabid as his fans are, I have a hard time believing they’d remain as passionate following Tim Tebow the fullback.. and believe me, Tebow knows that.

 

..on point, nothing would surprise me anymore with the Jets regarding the QB position. (especially given the fact that our owner is head-over-heels for TT) I know it would be a PR nightmare if Tebow were to come back, but after what happened last season with Braylon calling the entire organization idiots.. thus, THAT’S what got him to return.. I’ve learned that; **If it doesn’t make sense.. then the Jets will give it a try.**
If Geno Smith is named the starter, there’s no emergency hatch to open come Week 5 if the Jets suck. You couldn’t bench him and go to Sanchez, you’d kill the kids career before it’d even start. That’s why I think Sanchez starts opening day. #1) It gives Geno a longer time to absorb the playbook\offense. #2) If the Jets start the year 1-4, you could pull the plug on Sanchez and never look back.


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#154 '7'

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:28 AM

http://sports.yahoo....-153801547.html

 

What a fvcking idiot

 

now I doubt there was any criminal intent (actually this is the kind of thing rednecks do in the south all the time, get wasted, and then start shooting things)

 

but still, how stupid can you be?


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#155 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

There's no shot they bring back Tebow, he's even hard-pressed to get backup offers from the Arena league.  I mean in a way it's like the poor kid's getting blackballed, with all the ****ty QB's around you'd figure someone would take a shot on him, but they just don't want the circus that comes attached especially considering what it did to us last year.

 

I do think it's pretty fortuitous that Garrard didn't retire before we cut Tebow or we might still have him :P



 

Yeah, I never trusted Garrard to stay healthy anyways.  If we didn't draft Geno it'd be round two of the Mark/Tim circus again.

 

Tebow is probably as nice a guy off the field as one could ever meet, and he seems pretty genuine, but at the same time there's just something so damned ANNOYING about him, and I think more and more people, from fans to franchise's personnel decision-makers, are feeling that way about him.  It's like you say...it's like NO ONE in the NFL wants anything to do with him. 


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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#156 SS#4-Life

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

http://sports.yahoo....-153801547.html

What a fvcking idiot

now I doubt there was any criminal intent (actually this is the kind of thing rednecks do in the south all the time, get wasted, and then start shooting things)

but still, how stupid can you be?

lol 2 funny. thats 2 signings now that have been a wa$te of money for the jets in garard and goodson
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#157 '7'

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

lol 2 funny. thats 2 signings now that have been a wa$te of money for the jets in garard and goodson

 

Garrard retired before playing a game so they don't owe him anything. Technically he wasn't a waste of money. Goodson may be depending on where this goes...


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#158 MantaRay

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:36 PM

Do the Jet's not do their homework?  Background checks? Character assessments?  Or do they just sign anyone that desperate to sign with them.?


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#159 SS#4-Life

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:44 PM


Garrard retired before playing a game so they don't owe him anything. Technically he wasn't a waste of money. Goodson may be depending on where this goes...


signing bonuses
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#160 '7'

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

Do the Jet's not do their homework?  Background checks? Character assessments?  Or do they just sign anyone that desperate to sign with them.?

 

Ray Lewis killed a guy

 

as far as Goodson, he had no previous disciplinary issues

 

Rolando McClain who you JUST SIGNED was arrested 3 weeks ago and then retired


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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