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GDT:2/10/13 New Jersey Devils @ Pittsburgh Penguins


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#141 njd3b1ink

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:45 PM

The thing that annoyed me the most during the post game was that instead of talking about why the devils won and what makes them one of the top teams in the east instead they talked about "what did the pens do that made them lose." It makes it sound like the pens played a terrible game when it reality they played a damn good game but the devils were just that much better.
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#142 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 04:51 PM

The thing that annoyed me the most during the post game was that instead of talking about why the devils won and what makes them one of the top teams in the east instead they talked about "what did the pens do that made them lose." It makes it sound like the pens played a terrible game when it reality they played a damn good game but the devils were just that much better.

 

That's just always how it will be for the Devils. I don't know if there's a team in sports as underrated as the Devils are most seasons. When they had the bad start and missed the playoffs a couple of years ago, the hockey media basically reacted with relief that the 'inevitable collapse' finally happened. Two years later, they are in the Stanley Cup Finals. And it seems all the respect they earned during last year's run has been forgotten.

 

I mean, wasn't Pittsburgh the team that got absolutely throttled by the same Philly team the Devils took out in 5 games? Jersey will always be the Rodney Dangerfield of hockey.


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#143 newarkdev01

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 05:28 PM

I think there is a bit of resentment for how effective the devils rebuild their teams through a strong defensive system every year. I am sure announcers would love 4-5 and 6-5 games with end to end rushes but that style would only produce wins for maybe 5-6 teams in this league. The devils system changed over time but over the past 5 years its evolved into a forcheck and pin the other team in the zone and run the cycle for possesion system. The beauty of what this team does is displayed by the almost resentful way the announcers call our hockey boring and frustrating.


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#144 Devilsfan118

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

By the way, Kovy is +5 through 12 games.

 

Quite the transformation he's made.


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#145 Triumph

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:09 PM

By the way, Kovy is +5 through 12 games.

 

Quite the transformation he's made.

 

If he keeps playing the way he's playing, he won't be a plus player for long.


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#146 EdgeControl

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:23 PM

By the way, Kovy is +5 through 12 games.

 

Quite the transformation he's made.

take away that one bad pittsburgh game and he's +8 through 11


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#147 Blown01NJ

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

If he keeps playing the way he's playing, he won't be a plus player for long.

Care to elaborate?


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#148 Bryan

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 11:13 PM

I'm curious too. Because hasn't the way he's been playing made him +5?
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#149 SterioDesign

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:00 AM

Tri's fav activity is to say the opposite of what the majority is saying here, you guys have never noticed that? lol

He'll likely bring up some shooting % stat or something similar pointing out that he cant keep up his productiom at that rate or wtv... You get to know him with time :P

I still like you though <3

Edited by SterioDesign, 12 February 2013 - 12:02 AM.

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#150 Zubie#8

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:05 AM

Tri's fav activity is to say the opposite of what the majority is saying here, you guys have never noticed that? lol

He'll likely bring up some shooting % stat or something similar pointing out that he cant keep up his productiom at that rate or wtv... You get to know him with time :P

I still like you though <3

Kovy does only has one 5on5 goal and only four or five 5on5 points. Thats one reason right there. He needs to pick it up in that regard.


Edited by Zubie#8, 12 February 2013 - 12:11 AM.

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#151 Devils731

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:12 AM

I went to check out why someone may feel that way about Kovy.  

 

Kovy's Corsi isn't very good this year and his PDO is 1036, so other teams are outshooting the Devils when he's out there and the Devils goalies have been crazy good when he's been out there, which is where his +/- is benefiting which has more to do with randomness than his own play.

 

On the flip side Kovy is only starting in the offensive zone 46.8% of the time but finishing in the offensive zone 50.0% of the time, which is pretty nice.

 

Zajac's Corsi is pretty good and his offensize zone start % is 49.5% so I wonder if a lot of Kovy's bad Corsi is due to exta defensive zone starts with the 4th line.

 

Kovy is also 15th in points per 60 minutes.  That's unrelated to +/- but I think it shows how useless it is putting him out there with the 4th line.


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#152 DJ Eco

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:32 AM

If he keeps playing the way he's playing, he won't be a plus player for long.

 

:doh1:


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#153 Triumph

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

Is Kovalchuk's back-checking and defensive zone play way better than in past years?  Absolutely.  You'll get no argument from me on that score.  What's gone down is his offensive play.  It's been getting better in recent games, but the Devils are still only getting 46% of the shots taken with him on the ice at even strength.  Players who are outshot by that large a margin tend to be minus players.  Part of it is, as 731 said, playing with the 4th line (the Devils are getting 29% of the shot attempts with Kovalchuk and Ryan Carter on the ice, 35% with Kovalchuk and Stephen Gionta in the very brief time they've had together).  But yeah, unless the offense picks up, it's going to be another minus year for Ilya.


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#154 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:14 PM

Re:  the +/- thing...as Tri pointed out some time ago, when a player gets that + or - for being on ice when his team gives up or scored a goal, he usually has five other teammates on the ice with him, including his goalie.  Sometimes it's all about being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time, as far as that stat goes...the goalie can give up a softie, one player can make a mistake that causes the other players on the ice to get a -1 on any given goal.  Or of course, a forward can get the puck in his own end, make a couple of phenomenal moves, put the puck home, then BAM!  Everyone who watched as that player did his thing gets a +1.

 

The baffling case this season remains Jacob Josefson.  The Devils have five players at -1, a sixth at -2, and there's Josefson at -6.  He has yet to be a plus player in any given game this season (to his credit, he has been even in 7 games, -1 in four other games, in -2 in just one game).  The guess here is that he can EVER find a way to score a little, he'll find his way back up to even.  But with just 12 SOG for the season, and not looking like he has great hands, the guess here is that probably isn't happening anytime soon.


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#155 Devilsfan118

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

It's looking like JJ might just become that prototypical Madden-esque 3rd line center in a few years. Just doesn't seem to have any finish.
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#156 Triumph

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:36 PM

Re:  the +/- thing...as Tri pointed out some time ago, when a player gets that + or - for being on ice when his team gives up or scored a goal, he usually has five other teammates on the ice with him, including his goalie.  Sometimes it's all about being in the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time, as far as that stat goes...the goalie can give up a softie, one player can make a mistake that causes the other players on the ice to get a -1 on any given goal.  Or of course, a forward can get the puck in his own end, make a couple of phenomenal moves, put the puck home, then BAM!  Everyone who watched as that player did his thing gets a +1.

 

The baffling case this season remains Jacob Josefson.  The Devils have five players at -1, a sixth at -2, and there's Josefson at -6.  He has yet to be a plus player in any given game this season (to his credit, he has been even in 7 games, -1 in four other games, in -2 in just one game).  The guess here is that he can EVER find a way to score a little, he'll find his way back up to even.  But with just 12 SOG for the season, and not looking like he has great hands, the guess here is that probably isn't happening anytime soon.

 

Josefson and other players with him on the ice are shooting 2.56%.  The Devils' goalies are also stopping 88% of shots with Josefson on the ice, versus a much higher percentage when everyone else is on the ice.  It's a fluke.  Just like it was a fluke last year when Devils' goalies stopped 97% of shots when Josefson was on the ice.


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#157 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Josefson and other players with him on the ice are shooting 2.56%.  The Devils' goalies are also stopping 88% of shots with Josefson on the ice, versus a much higher percentage when everyone else is on the ice.  It's a fluke.  Just like it was a fluke last year when Devils' goalies stopped 97% of shots when Josefson was on the ice.

 

2.56% for and 12% against...yep, that would do it.  Kind of odd that no one else is in his neighborhood.  And that's not an indictment on Josefson...just that the anomaly really is that odd.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#158 SterioDesign

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

Is Kovalchuk's back-checking and defensive zone play way better than in past years?  Absolutely.  You'll get no argument from me on that score.  What's gone down is his offensive play.  It's been getting better in recent games, but the Devils are still only getting 46% of the shots taken with him on the ice at even strength.  Players who are outshot by that large a margin tend to be minus players.  Part of it is, as 731 said, playing with the 4th line (the Devils are getting 29% of the shot attempts with Kovalchuk and Ryan Carter on the ice, 35% with Kovalchuk and Stephen Gionta in the very brief time they've had together).  But yeah, unless the offense picks up, it's going to be another minus year for Ilya.

 

You're putting WAY too much into those stats WAYYYYY too much, it's ridiculous, bringing up stats does not tell all the story unlike baseball or wtv.

 

A shot on goal does not mean that all players on the ice we're Mario Lemieux out of a sudden for that sequence, you can cycle the puck and have possession and simply come near a scoring chance, miss the net, miss the puck on a pass in front, get tripped, etc etc. While you can just happen to be on the ice when a player shoot the puck in the chest of a goalie from the blue line to get an offensive zone faceoff. Or you just get on the ice and go to the net and here come a rebound at the door step and you put it in. Way too many variables to put that much faith in those shooting % stats.


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#159 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:47 PM

You're putting WAY too much into those stats WAYYYYY too much, it's ridiculous, bringing up stats does not tell all the story unlike baseball or wtv.

 

A shot on goal does not mean that all players on the ice we're Mario Lemieux out of a sudden for that sequence, you can cycle the puck and have possession and simply come near a scoring chance, miss the net, miss the puck on a pass in front, get tripped, etc etc. While you can just happen to be on the ice when a player shoot the puck in the chest of a goalie from the blue line to get an offensive zone faceoff. Or you just get on the ice and go to the net and here come a rebound at the door step and you put it in. Way too many variables to put that much faith in those shooting % stats.

 

In fainess, and I think Tri will correct if I'm wrong, I think the numbers Tri looks up factors in ALL shots taken, including ones that miss the net. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#160 SterioDesign

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:50 PM

In fainess, and I think Tri will correct if I'm wrong, I think the numbers Tri looks up factors in ALL shots taken, including ones that miss the net. 

 

even then, OF COURSE if you simply look at it, "they took 5 shots while i was on the ice and we only took 1" it doesnt look good and you need in most case to shoot the puck to score".

 

It's STILL not telling the story and eventhough it can be a "good indication" it's seriously not everything and you can't put too much into it. There's wayyyyy too many variables.


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