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GDT:2/10/13 New Jersey Devils @ Pittsburgh Penguins


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#161 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:54 PM

even then, OF COURSE if you simply look at it, "they took 5 shots while i was on the ice and we only took 1" it doesnt look good and you need in most case to shoot the puck to score".

 

It's STILL not telling the story and eventhough it can be a "good indication" it's seriously not everything and you can't put too much into it. There's wayyyyy too many variables.

 

He's not saying it's everything.  He's saying players who tend to be on the ice for a lower percentage of shots taken than their opponents take tend to be minus players.  Kind of makes sense.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#162 Triumph

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:57 PM

You're putting WAY too much into those stats WAYYYYY too much, it's ridiculous, bringing up stats does not tell all the story unlike baseball or wtv.

 

A shot on goal does not mean that all players on the ice we're Mario Lemieux out of a sudden for that sequence, you can cycle the puck and have possession and simply come near a scoring chance, miss the net, miss the puck on a pass in front, get tripped, etc etc. While you can just happen to be on the ice when a player shoot the puck in the chest of a goalie from the blue line to get an offensive zone faceoff. Or you just get on the ice and go to the net and here come a rebound at the door step and you put it in. Way too many variables to put that much faith in those shooting % stats.

 

Okay, great.  Kovalchuk has been a negative player since the Fenwick era began (that's 2007-08).  Looking at his numbers between then and now (cut off at 2011-12), Kovalchuk's team has taken 47% of the shots while he's on the ice.  According to behindthenet, he's -24 goals 5 on 5 since 2007-08.  Now unfortunately this doesn't remove empty net goals, so I went and looked at timeonice, which does, and there he's -22.  Now you're right that Kovalchuk doesn't have a huge sample this year, but I'm not counting on him becoming some kind of territorial dynamo - if he can get himself up to 50% I'll be satisfied.


Edited by Triumph, 12 February 2013 - 01:58 PM.

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#163 Marshall

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:00 PM

 you need in most case to shoot the puck to score".

 

I'm trying to think of when you don't need to shoot the puck to score?


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#164 NJCroMag

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:13 PM

I'm trying to think of when you don't need to shoot the puck to score?

 

Sometimes, a slapper goes in off your ass.  Tough way to score goals, but they count.

 

Or my favorite:  Simply being the last player on your team to touch the puck before a delayed penalty occured and the other team stupidly put the puck into their own net.


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#165 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

Sometimes, a slapper goes in off your ass.  Tough way to score goals, but they count.

 

Or my favorite:  Simply being the last player on your team to touch the puck before a delayed penalty occured and the other team stupidly put the puck into their own net.

 

Rob Ramage did that with the Rockies, as did a Flyer against the Devils.  In both instances, it led to the goalies being credited with a goal (Billy Smith, and Brodeur of course). 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#166 NJCroMag

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:38 PM

Rob Ramage did that with the Rockies, as did a Flyer against the Devils.  In both instances, it led to the goalies being credited with a goal (Billy Smith, and Brodeur of course). 

 

I remember that.  Flyers player was coming out of his own zone, seemingly out of harm's way, when Sergei Brylin forechecked him.  The guy lost control, the puck hit a skate (or two?), and it went sliding backwards into their own net.

 

Only way that scenario could have been bettered is if it'd happened against the Rangers...


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"A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice o' coincidence that lays on top o' everything. Give you an example; show you what I mean: suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness."

#167 Marshall

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:41 PM

Sometimes, a slapper goes in off your ass.  Tough way to score goals, but they count.

 

Or my favorite:  Simply being the last player on your team to touch the puck before a delayed penalty occured and the other team stupidly put the puck into their own net.

Yeah, but a shot is still taken, which kinda was my point. Of course there's the "guy scores into his own own net because goalie is pulled"-nonsense that happens, but still.


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