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Official 2013 New York Mets Thread


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#1681 '7'

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:42 AM

Just broke on WFAN. Granderson a Met. 4 years...no $$$ reported yet

 

haha. As soon as Cano flew off the board the Mets panicked and gave that 4th year

 

4 years 60 mil reported


Edited by '7', 06 December 2013 - 11:46 AM.

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#1682 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:45 AM

Kubel had nice power numbers in 2012.  Davis doesn't seem to do any one thing particularly well...doesn't hit for average, doesn't draw walks, doesn't slug at all...which means Sandy probably loves him already.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#1683 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:47 AM

Mets do sign him for 4-60, I know nobody likes the length but it does at least make sense in that we finally have a real OF'er and a lefty power bat that isn't Ike/Duda.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1684 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

Just broke on WFAN. Granderson a Met. 4 years...no $$$ reported yet

 

haha. As soon as Cano flew off the board the Mets panicked and gave that 4th year

 

Oh man, not good, unless the average value is $11 million or so (probably not).  All we can do is hope for the best, but this was a definitely a roll-the-dice type move that could come up snake eyes.  I would've rather have seen an Aoki type, but it looked like Sandy had tunnel vision on this one, and was going boom-or-bust. 

 

4 years 60 million?!  15 per?!  Ouch.


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 06 December 2013 - 11:49 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1685 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

Just broke on WFAN. Granderson a Met. 4 years...no $$$ reported yet

haha. As soon as Cano flew off the board the Mets panicked and gave that 4th year

4 years 60 mil reported


Yeah I had the same thought vis-a-vis panicking now that the Yankees lost Cano.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1686 nmigliore

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:52 AM

Sigh.

We'll be regretting it.
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LETS GO METS
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#1687 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:53 AM

That's exactly what this was...panic move.  No other way to put it. 


Sigh.

We'll be regretting it.

 

Couldn't agree more.  Hope Granderson surprises. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1688 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:53 AM

I'm not as down on it as you two because I'm just tired of seeing AA dreck and retreads man the outfield. But yeah it did seem as if Granderson was option A,B, and C.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1689 Daniel

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 11:56 AM

I think it's fine.  Maybe it's too much money, but there's no cap, and it's not coming out of the fans' pocket.  Is there any other big name free agent the Mets are going to be in a position to throw a ton of money over the next four years?  Highly doubtful, so it really doesn't cost the Mets that much. 


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#1690 '7'

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:00 PM

He's still only a year removed from a 43 hr season...and 41 the year before that. Plus his injuries last year were more freakish than nagging/old player stuff...I guess we can look at that as positives

 

plus right field isn't as ridiculous as it was before with the work done at the Mo's zone. Granderson is also the perfect candidate to hit some home runs in that notch that the Phillies 2b usually hits them (I refuse to call it his corner) it's only 330 right down the line


Edited by '7', 06 December 2013 - 12:03 PM.

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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
Posted Image Posted Image

#1691 nmigliore

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 12:21 PM

That's exactly what this was...panic move. No other way to put it.


Couldn't agree more. Hope Granderson surprises.

As down on Sandy as I am, I felt like he'd never panic. Not anymore.

I wish Granderson the best, but, ugh.
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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#1692 thefiestygoat

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

I hope Granderson works outs well for you guys. I think 4/60 is actually pretty decent considering the market right now and that you guys really could use a player like him. I became a big fan of his on and off the field during his time with the Yankees. Besides being a solid player he seems like a really great person for what it's worth.


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#1693 nmigliore

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:28 PM

Dan Szymborski ran some ZiPS projections on Granderson. They like his chances of aging, and the forecasted playing time is probably a bit light, so you can even bump it up a little: https://twitter.com/...012322233876480
https://twitter.com/...015722853924864

Still an overpay with +8 total WAR, but not by terribly much, and it at least it projects him to be an average or better regular for 3 of the 4 years.

Eno Sarris of Fangraphs thinks the deal is fine: http://www.fangraphs...ake-granderson/

Still not a fan of this deal but it looks a bit better when you take a couple steps back.

Edited by nmigliore, 06 December 2013 - 01:31 PM.

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LETS GO METS
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"Take all that clubhouse [expletive] and all that, throw it out the window. Every writer in the country has been writing about that [expletive] for years. Chemistry don't mean [expletive]."

- Jim Leyland

#1694 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:28 PM

I think it's fine.  Maybe it's too much money, but there's no cap, and it's not coming out of the fans' pocket.  Is there any other big name free agent the Mets are going to be in a position to throw a ton of money over the next four years?  Highly doubtful, so it really doesn't cost the Mets that much. 

 

There IS a pseudo-cap, as far as the Mets are concerned...not an official one from MLB of course (other than the lux tax threshold), but the Mets clearly don't have a lot of money to spend (especially for a big-market team), so every decision that involves an 8-digit per year deal needs to be made with great care, and be as close to a sure thing as possible.  I don't feel like that happened in this case, at all.  2012 and 2013 point to possible decline.  He's failed to hit .250 or get on base 33% of the time in four out of the last five seasons, and it will be a lot more noticable now that he won't be hitting 40+ home runs anymore.  He strikes out a ton, and the strikeouts have gone up at lot the last three seasons. 

 

Like nmig hints at, this is a move that is very un-Sandy-like, and not in a good way...I could obviously be wrong, but like I said, it doesn't seem like he did much hunting around, trying to find far less risky and more cost-effective options.

 

 

I'm not as down on it as you two because I'm just tired of seeing AA dreck and retreads man the outfield. But yeah it did seem as if Granderson was option A,B, and C.

 

I hear you, believe me I do, but at least those guys weren't payroll killers.  Not only might Grandy turn out to be a bust, but he could wind up being a very expensive bust at that.  $22.25 million of the 2014 payroll is being spent on two VERY iffy outfielders, and neither of them are very good on getting on base.  An outfield of Grandy, Lagares, and Young will probably get on base about 31-32% of the time, and if EY is the fourth guy, it's not going to get any better off the bench.  Murph doesn't get on base.  Tejada doesn't get on base.  The one guy who is a lock to get on base in the entire Met lineup is David Wright.  d'Arnaud and Davis are question marks in that regard until further notice.  And oh yeah, the guys the Mets are adding strike out a ton too.    


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1695 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:42 PM

I listened to Francesa's open for like five minutes, he intimated ownership went 'beyond' Sandy's recommendation to get the deal done. Could be PR but it wouldn't shock me either.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#1696 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:45 PM

I listened to Francesa's open for like five minutes, he intimated ownership went 'beyond' Sandy's recommendation to get the deal done. Could be PR but it wouldn't shock me either.

 

If this is true, I wonder when Sandy snaps.  


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1697 nmigliore

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:51 PM

That's definitely believable. Sandy just isn't the type to rush into deals like this, for better or worse.
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- Jim Leyland

#1698 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 01:53 PM

That's definitely believable. Sandy just isn't the type to rush into deals like this, for better or worse.

 

We'll never know it, but I would love to see what Sandy's true Plan A was.  Because I firmly believe that he had one, and the Wilpons have basically sh!t all over it from the moment he likely pitched his ideas to them.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#1699 nmigliore

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:22 PM

I was just looking over Oliver's 2014-and-beyond forecast on Granderson. Like ZiPS, it's not super high on him, but thinks he'll age pretty decently over the life of the deal, and be worth +7.5 WAR total. ZiPS liked him a little more and had him at +7.9, though again, that was on the light side due to playing time projections that were off. So if we bump that up a bit and project Grandy to be worth something between +7.5 and +8.5 WAR total, the deal should actually be okay. Maybe a $10M-ish overpay at most, but given the current price of a win and likely inflation hitting baseball due to  TV deals, I doubt even that much. 

 

This deal still makes me uneasy, and projection systems are just that: projection systems, but I've definitely warmed up to this a bit. Hopefully we add more and don't declare the offseason over after the front office got "their guy." Still need 2 starting pitchers, a SS, and maybe a 1B.


Edited by nmigliore, 07 December 2013 - 12:24 PM.

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#1700 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 12:23 PM

Isn't this the exact same contract given to Bay?
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