90 replies to this topic

[Zubie#8]

And zubie didnt you make the post to get rid of clarkson? yeah please evaluate talent some more buddy, you seem to be great at it hahaha

Yes in 2010 when he was bad.

 

You have the right to criticize players, I have the right to criticize players but I dont start pissing contests against fellow members.

Edited by Zubie#8, 15 February 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Bartholomew Hunt]

You hit it on the head stereo design. This post was to point out how josefson is on an equal grade wuth teddy

[Bartholomew Hunt]

Zubie clarky was never bad, he was just younger and not a veteran in this system. Just like JJ and teddy. So thank you for proving my point that i can just skip over zubie8's comments everytime theyre about evaluating a player.

[Zubie#8]

Zubie clarky was never bad, he was just younger and not a veteran in this system. Just like JJ and teddy. So thank you for proving my point that i can just skip over zubie8's comments everytime theyre about evaluating a player.

Good.

 

EDIT: easier said now about Clarkson. He was beyond bad in 2010 and everybody knows that. And for what its worth I have so much humility that I bumped that thread multiple times to say I was wrong and I was happy to be wrong, and I also grew up since then. You should do the same.

Edited by Zubie#8, 15 February 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[sundstrom]

JJ 44.3%. yeah put him out there when we need a big faceoff.

 

there is likely nobody that overvalues faceoffs more than me and I can tell you that putting a number down without looking at the real data is misleading.

 

JJ's ES FO is 47w-55l - that's a difference of 8 faceoffs.

Where he's weak is SH where he's 13w - 26l. but PK faceoffs are notoriously harder to win. (jj's PP faceoffs are 6w-2l). even the mighty zajac is under 50% on the PK.

 

as for "big faceoffs", without someone specifically tracking those (sort of like close and late in baseball statistics), you can't tell. there are plenty of times where players lose meaningless faceoffs on purpose to not show their best moves.

 

the best way to tell if a player like josefson is any good is to see how a (smart) team uses him. and i consider the devils a smart team. he plays in all situations and in close and late situations. The devils aren't trusting him because he stinks and they have nobody better. he is the number one PK w/ zajac. This is BEFORE elias and Henrique. that should tell you plenty.

[NJDevs4978]

They literally have nobody else better when it comes to faceoffs, other than Zajac:

 

 

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice

Without Zajac going 139-94 (59.6%), the Devils are 210-310 (40.4%) on faceoffs as a team.

 

 

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice

No other Devil who has taken more than 15 faceoffs has won more than 43.3 percent. As a team, Devils rank 27th at 46.4 percent.

[sundstrom]

here's something else about faceoffs to think about and it will probably make triumph's blood boil because i'm trusting everyone to use confirmation bias and their memories instead of hard numbers because they don't exist.

 

point to a goal that you can remember where losing the faceoff was an undeniable direct result. i'm talking a loss where the puck gets drawn back to the point and the shot goes in. or where a won faceoff was able to hit a skater on stride leading to a goal. now sure, losing a faceoff in your d zone giving possession to the other team and then they cycle for a while or build a play started with the faceoff win but there's so much more to winning faceoffs besides the center. if wings don't do their part, the center's best intentions can be rendered moot. if a faceoff isn't won straight back, it's out of the center's hands who "wins" it.

 

my point - JJ's faceoff numbers should be like the 10th thing you look at to measure his contributions.

[Devils731]

I'm pretty sure face offs rank fairly low on what wins or loses a hockey game. They're nice to have, but the numbers suggest they're not critical in the long run.

[SterioDesign]

You hit it on the head stereo design. This post was to point out how josefson is on an equal grade wuth teddy

Well thats not what i said really lol

I agree with what blink said, but im pretty disgusted by most of our first round picks in the last 10 years, thank god we got good players from later rounds

[capo]

Josefson has talent but he needs play with more of an edge and be harder on the puck. He could take a page out of Clarkson's book with puck, style aside.  If Tedenby had Josefson's size he would be a bonifide NHLer.

[RangersSuck23]

Good.

 

EDIT: easier said now about Clarkson. He was beyond bad in 2010 and everybody knows that. And for what its worth I have so much humility that I bumped that thread multiple times to say I was wrong and I was happy to be wrong, and I also grew up since then. You should do the same.

THIS

[RangersSuck23]

One little miniscule thing i want to point out. The Devils are in first place are we not? Let's not get too cute with our lineup changes. I dont care if jj goes -20 and scores one point all season.  IF WE KEEP WINNING DONT CHANGE ANYTHING

[DH26]

Yes in 2010 when he was bad.

 

You have the right to criticize players, I have the right to criticize players but I dont start pissing contests against fellow members.

 

lol Clarkson was awful and wasnt a 21 year old former first round pick either. As if to say that what we have now was just his development curve is ridiculous. A lot of people were trying to hope that Burke would take him off our hands in Toronto for his truculence when we were having cap problems post Kovy-signing. 

[nessus]

Eh, I wouldn't give up on either of Tedenby or Josefson yet. Tedenby has shown he is not fit for the NHL right now, but he could very well be a late bloomer after some serious coaching in the AHL. It's too hard to tell at the moment.

 

I agree that Josefson's numbers have looked pretty disappointing this year, but I have been more impressed with his play with each passing game. It's also pretty hard to argue that he should be putting up more points when you look at the opportunities he has been given. He's received very limited minutes, and a lot of PK time. I don't know if he's ever been out there on the PP, but his even strength minutes are almost always accompanied by Barch, which speaks for itself.

 

Aside from getting a bit bigger and stronger, I think his shot is the only part of his game that REALLY needs improvement. To call him a bust is ridiculous. He is simply a role player now. His job isn't to score a lot of points as of lately. I do believe he would be better suited for a third line role, but that isn't going to happen until CBGB gets broken up. It makes me wonder whether a full AHL season would have been good for him, so that he has an opportunity to spend time on improving the aspects of his game that need work: scoring. But regardless, it seems that there will have to be some mixing up of the bottom 6 so that Loktionov gets a fair shot, too.

[Marshall]

Kid's obviously a bust, he's 22 and gets the most time on the PK of all forwards. Bust, bust, bust, bust. Who cares about great (and possibly elite in the future) defensive skill at that age?

[mouse]

IMHO JJ's offensive game needs chemistry to work. He's a pass first center with a lousy shot. He needs to be with guys he can feed and who will get him the puck in the right spot. He's playing the most minutes with Barch, the worst player on the ice, and is bouncing around a lot, so he hasn't had a chance to get comfortable with anyone. If they bench Barch and play him on a real 3rd line for a couple of weeks (Matteau and Butler for example), I see his production going up. Either way, he is doing a lot of good things for a team that is winning.

[njd3b1ink]

What the hell is with these threads? First a kovy should be benched thread then from the next game on he's a beast again. Then a zubrus thread and he gets injured. Then this thread about how teddy is just as good as JJ (false) and he ends up getting severely injured in the AHL and then also a Zajac thread and he scores 40 seconds into the flyers game and just had a really solid game overall.

[Zubie#8]

What the hell is with these threads? First a kovy should be benched thread then from the next game on he's a beast again. Then a zubrus thread and he gets injured. Then this thread about how teddy is just as good as JJ (false) and he ends up getting severely injured in the AHL and then also a Zajac thread and he scores 40 seconds into the flyers game and just had a really solid game overall.

We have the power!

[Devs1965]

If one thing I see that is different is the way we play the game, not every player we draft or trade for are going to be strong on the boards, forcheck, etc they May play well on a different style of play team. Both JJ and Teddy can be successful but just maybe not on this team.
IMO we brought Teddy up way to quick and maybe even JJ smaller players need to figure the team out more in the AHL first.

[capo]

Clarkson has never been a bad player.  His role has changed significantly from when he first came up.  He's evolved from a middleweight enforcer with a good stick to a goal scorer in the Dave Andreychuck mold.  When it's all said and done his career will probably be centered more along the enforcer path than the goal scorer but we can hope for the latter.