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#281 '7'

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:08 PM

http://m.espn.go.com...storyId=9913324

This Martin story's an odd one.

 

Yes, hazing is nothing new in the NFL (in all sports really) and I suppose it could be a case of Martin being a bit too sensitive...but there have also been some rumors about the hazing having to do with Martins sexual orientation, and perhaps it wasn't just ribbing and pranks.


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#282 Daniel

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:59 PM

Evidently Martin would participate in hazing incidents himself. Anti-bullying training coming to the NFL. Lord save us.


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#283 MadDog2020

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:54 AM

The Martin story is very bizzare, and its becoming a national news story. They did a feature on Martin on the Today Show yesterday. The team claims there was no 'bullying' so to speak, going on and that the NFLPA isn't investigating, contrary to reports. Who knows. All I know is I doubt Martin's on this team much longer, we'll probably just release him in the offseason, which is I'd imagine what he wants at this point.


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#284 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:42 PM

Tell me precisely what Tannehill has accomplished. We all know that he had nothing to do with this win.


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Tell me what Mark Sanchez...a then-5th year veteran who's been mind-screwed, is coming off of shoulder surgery, and is basically being thrown out the door by his former team because he couldn't do the simple things like not turn the ball over...could offer this team on the field that Ryan Tannehill couldn't.  Unless the answer is "comic entertainment value", I don't see it.  

 

I think you're off the deep end with Tannehill, but you're entitled to your opinion and I won't have anything new to add to the conversation that MadDog hasn't brought up.  Sanchez?  GTFO.  He's not an upgrade.  He may not be an upgrade over Matt Moore, but I'd be happy to bring him in to compete for that.


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#285 MadDog2020

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 11:37 PM

And now Incognito has been suspended indefinitely. https://mobile.twitt...=JeffDarlington


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#286 '7'

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:13 AM

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout10m
Garafolo: "Multiple sources told me Martin's camp informed Dolphins and NFLPA that Incognito sent threatening and racially charged texts"

 

also there are rumors of Incognito forcing Martin to pay 15k for some Vegas vacation of his.
 


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#287 Daniel

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 12:50 PM

And now reports that Icognito's father was posting on Finheaven.

 

http://deadspin.com/...on-m-1457997230


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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

ESPN has a "confirmed transcript" of one of Richie's voicemails to Jonathan Martin here.

 

I'm not c/p'ing it here, but suffice it to say it would make Riley Cooper blush.

 

I highly doubt he ever plays for Miami again.  Whether or not he plays for anyone...well, that's their choice, but unlike when he came to Miami from St. Louis, the writing's on the wall nationally.


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#289 '7'

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:28 PM

And now reports that Icognito's father was posting on Finheaven.

 

http://deadspin.com/...on-m-1457997230

 

that's not really news though. I mean how is it any different than all the celebs and their parents/wives/kids on twitter. Wayne Gretzky's daughter is basically a twitter porn star

 

honestly I hope incidents like this end the old school hazing garbage


Edited by '7', 04 November 2013 - 01:35 PM.

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#290 Beezer34

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:31 PM

This all casts Philbin in a very negative light imo. A Head Coach should know this type of stuff is going on with his team\players.

..never would've happened under Tony Sparano. :closedeyes:


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#291 Daniel

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:19 PM

ESPN has a "confirmed transcript" of one of Richie's voicemails to Jonathan Martin here.

I'm not c/p'ing it here, but suffice it to say it would make Riley Cooper blush.

I highly doubt he ever plays for Miami again. Whether or not he plays for anyone...well, that's their choice, but unlike when he came to Miami from St. Louis, the writing's on the wall nationally.


I'm not an Incognito fan, regardless of his antics, but it sounds to me anyway that he was trying to do the mock-gangster ironic thing.


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#292 Daniel

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:22 PM

This all casts Philbin in a very negative light imo. A Head Coach should know this type of stuff is going on with his teamplayers.
..never would've happened under Tony Sparano. :closedeyes:

I'm reminded of what Clinton Portis said when Vick was caught. Basically that there were a lot of NFL players that did the same thing, but Vick just got caught.

I'm sure this sort of thing happens with all teams and to the same degree. Incognito was just exceedingly stupid about it.

I'll also add that Martin appears to have something more of a fragile personality than most NFL lineman. Had he not left the team we wouldn't have been hearing about this.

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Edited by Daniel, 04 November 2013 - 06:39 PM.

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#293 Daniel

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

that's not really news though. I mean how is it any different than all the celebs and their parents/wives/kids on twitter. Wayne Gretzky's daughter is basically a twitter porn star

honestly I hope incidents like this end the old school hazing garbage


I think what makes it different is that it was an attempt, half baked as it might be, is that he attempted to do it anonymously.


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#294 MantaRay

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

Listening to Rex Ryan today on the Don Legreca show. He basically said it was impossible with all planning and practices to keep tabs on this type of thing.

Tony Dungee and a few other GM's had Him on a DO NOT draft list because of his conduct.
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#295 CRASHER

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 10:29 PM

Listening to Rex Ryan today on the Don Legreca show. He basically said it was impossible with all planning and practices to keep tabs on this type of thing.

Tony Dungee and a few other GM's had Him on a DO NOT draft list because of his conduct.

 

Dikta said the same on NFL Radio on XM....I can understand that....I can NOT understand the O-Line coach not knowing this with 2 of his 9-13 bodies he needs deal with if the problem was THIS bad.....


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#296 Daniel

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:12 PM

My thoughts on the latest Incognito/Martin news:

 

Basically, it confirms what we all know about Incognito (as well as a lot of other pro football players) -- that he's a big dumb animal.  The hazing that Martin went through, if you want to call it that, was probably worse than the average 1st/2nd player gets, but probably not beyond the bounds of what anyone would have thought was acceptable prior to the story breaking.  To me, it seems like Martin is more thin-skinned than your average NFL offensive lineman.  It's not an excuse.  Even assuming Incognito thought it was all in good fun or a necessary rite of passage, you still have to have some sense of other peoples' limits, especially when your talking about a teammate that you want to perform to the best of his abilities. 

 

The racial stuff doesn't bother me all that much.  There's apparently video of Incognito using the same language in front of Mike Pouncey, who's laughing the whole time.  I'll venture a guess that Martin wasn't really offended by the racial language in the texts at the time, and understood it was a joke too.  Now though that lawyers or "advisers" are presumably involved, it's going to be portrayed as Martin being afraid that burning crosses were going to start showing up on his lawn.  I'll also add that the reports, take them for what you will, are that the rest of the O-Line is firmly on Incognito's side, even when it's clear that he won't be playing for the Phins ever again, so they don't have much to worry about so far as reprisals. 

 

I also am not all that outraged by Philbin or Ireland "not acting sooner".  I doubt that either of them knew what was in the texts, or that otherwise what was going on was any worse than what they've seen their entire careers.  At some point, they have the right to go on the presumption that the players are adults and don't have to go around monitoring their texts. 

 

In the end, until more information comes out, I'm not losing any sleep over this. 


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#297 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:31 PM

Daniel, you're probably right about the racial stuff.  Probably looks a LOT more malicious in a transcript than it was intended to be.  Yeah, Incognito is a big dumb animal that's probably oblivious to the fact that some people can actually get hurt by words.  I think if someone tried to explain this to him 10 times, he'd still be confused and wouldn't understand. 

 

Right or wrong, I'm guessing most NFLers think Martin is a thin-skinned pansy who can't hack it, and I think he'll be ostracized in a lot of circles.  But if it wasn't Martin, it was going to be someone else eventually who would've reacted in a similar fashion.  Boomer Esiason said it perfectly...he basically said NFL locker rooms are full of loons who have little to no idea how the world outside their own really works...they live in their own little protected fantasy bubble. 

 

But yeah, lawyers will sensationalize this and distort this, right along with the media, who as they always do, will use this opportunity to try to sound more profound, outraged, poetic and sensitive than the next guy.  Not saying Incognito is any swell guy who deserves a pass, but he's going to be made out to be Satan before much longer.    


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#298 Beezer34

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:38 AM

Basically, it confirms what we all know about Incognito (as well as a lot of other pro football players) -- that he's a big dumb animal.  The hazing that Martin went through, if you want to call it that, was probably worse than the average 1st/2nd player gets, but probably not beyond the bounds of what anyone would have thought was acceptable prior to the story breaking.  To me, it seems like Martin is more thin-skinned than your average NFL offensive lineman.  It's not an excuse.  Even assuming Incognito thought it was all in good fun or a necessary rite of passage, you still have to have some sense of other peoples' limits, especially when your talking about a teammate that you want to perform to the best of his abilities. 

 

The racial stuff doesn't bother me all that much.  There's apparently video of Incognito using the same language in front of Mike Pouncey, who's laughing the whole time.  I'll venture a guess that Martin wasn't really offended by the racial language in the texts at the time, and understood it was a joke too.  Now though that lawyers or "advisers" are presumably involved, it's going to be portrayed as Martin being afraid that burning crosses were going to start showing up on his lawn.  I'll also add that the reports, take them for what you will, are that the rest of the O-Line is firmly on Incognito's side, even when it's clear that he won't be playing for the Phins ever again, so they don't have much to worry about so far as reprisals. 

I also am not all that outraged by Philbin or Ireland "not acting sooner".  I doubt that either of them knew what was in the texts, or that otherwise what was going on was any worse than what they've seen their entire careers.  At some point, they have the right to go on the presumption that the players are adults and don't have to go around monitoring their texts. 

 

Bullies are empowered by their surrounding peers. If Incognito was acting on this alone, I highly doubt it would've gone as far as it has Daniel. What's being reported here is that there are several players that let this go on, and Incognito was only the ring-leader.

 

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/while-a-bully-raged-dolphins-enabled-him/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24181321/dolphins-t-jonathan-martin-harassment-was-ongoing-leave-could-be-lengthy

"According to reports, Incognito was the ring-leader of on-going bullying, acting menacing towards Martin. Mike Pouncey was also said to be involved. If Mike Pouncey was also involved in bullying Martin, we should mention that; (a.) Pouncey's roommate at Florida was Aaron Hernandez. (b.) Pouncey was wearing a; "Free Aaron Hernandez" cap over the summer.. and; (c.) He was just recently served a Grand-Jury Subpoena in October for the Hernandez murder case in Massachusetts."

 

..ask yourself this question; How bad must this have gotten for Martin to blow the whistle? Why would a professional athlete walk away from his job? --unless; #1. He felt his life was being threatened. #2. The players doing it had information that Martin did not want to get out in the public. (say for example that Martin is gay) -or- #3. BOTH!

Incognito was voted Leadership Council by his own players from the Dolphins. :huh: How in the blue fvck does that happen?!

 

Furthermore, what you have here goes much deeper than just racial charged bullying.. you also have shakedown\extortion claims.

Rookie players were being pressured and threatened to pay exorbitant sums of money for dinners\trips\outings of the veteran players on the Miami Dolphins. THIS is why the NFLPA is getting directly involved with their investigation.. because this not only violates a safe working environment, it goes into criminal offense. NOW (follow me on this) if the investigation findings discover that the shakedown of Martin ties into the bullying, (ie; If you don't fork over $30,000.00 for this dinner, I'm telling people that you're gay) ..then what you have here is Blackmail! I'm just speculating.. but THIS is what I think was happening in Miami.


Edited by Beezer34, 06 November 2013 - 10:39 AM.

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#299 Daniel

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 10:51 AM

Bullies are empowered by their surrounding peers. If Incognito was acting on this alone, I highly doubt it would've gone as far as it has Daniel. What's being reported here is that there are several players that let this go on, and Incognito was only the ring-leader.

 

http://www.sportstalkflorida.com/while-a-bully-raged-dolphins-enabled-him/

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/24181321/dolphins-t-jonathan-martin-harassment-was-ongoing-leave-could-be-lengthy

"According to reports, Incognito was the ring-leader of on-going bullying, acting menacing towards Martin. Mike Pouncey was also said to be involved. If Mike Pouncey was also involved in bullying Martin, we should mention that; (a.) Pouncey's roommate at Florida was Aaron Hernandez. (b.) Pouncey was wearing a; "Free Aaron Hernandez" cap over the summer.. and; (c.) He was just recently served a Grand-Jury Subpoena in October for the Hernandez murder case in Massachusetts."

 

..ask yourself this question; How bad must this have gotten for Martin to blow the whistle? Why would a professional athlete walk away from his job? --unless; #1. He felt his life was being threatened. #2. The players doing it had information that Martin did not want to get out in the public. (say for example that Martin is gay) -or- #3. BOTH!

Incognito was voted Leadership Council by his own players from the Dolphins. :huh: How in the blue fvck does that happen?!

 

Furthermore, what you have here goes much deeper than just racial charged bullying.. you also have shakedown\extortion claims.

Rookie players were being pressured and threatened to pay exorbitant sums of money for dinners\trips\outings of the veteran players on the Miami Dolphins. THIS is why the NFLPA is getting directly involved with their investigation.. because this not only violates a safe working environment, it goes into criminal offense. NOW (follow me on this) if the investigation findings discover that the shakedown of Martin ties into the bullying, (ie; If you don't fork over $30,000.00 for this dinner, I'm telling people that you're gay) ..then what you have here is Blackmail! I'm just speculating.. but THIS is what I think was happening in Miami.

 

All of this stuff goes on on every other team.  Dez Bryant supposedly got zinged for a $50,000 dinner bill.  Apparently the same getting up from the table prank that caused Martin to flip out was played on Nate Gardner. 

 

As far as "bullying", as Antrelle Rolle said, these people are grown ups, not geeky high school freshmen.  Jonathan Martin is 6'4" 320 lbs, and is participating in one of the more violent occupations in world.  While, as I said, Incognito should have realized that some people can take more than others, Martin ought to have thicker skin if he wants to last in the NFL.

 

I suppose if there's blackmail the analysis changes.  But it seems kind of implausible.  As homophobic as some players might be, they still aren't rats.  That's probably why the rest of the team is siding with Incognito over Martin.  And also why I've never heard of a situation where a teammate publicly outed another teammate for being gay.


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#300 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:57 PM

Considering the Dolphin vets used other players as ATM's too I doubt this was about any kind of 'blackmail'.  Unfortunately that part of it's going to get overlooked and this whole thing is going to be about Martin being weak mentally.  The other players aren't just throwing Martin out to the wolves, to a man they're driving over him in a bus.

 

Ryan Tannnehill: "if you ask Jonathan Martin about Richie two weeks ago he would've said he's his best friend."

 

Hartline is outraged because he says Martin was passing the voicemail around earlier in the year and laughing about it.

 

Randy Starks on why they're speaking up after initially being told not to talk: We want to clear Richie's name

 

I understand Martin left the team so that's part of what's going on...but for them to vehemently defend Incognito like this, either there's some kind of cult going on over there, or this thing's been completely blown out of proportion by a sensitive flake.  And clearly this wasn't just one player going rogue either, this - Incognito being told to 'toughen him up' - was (as some have said) like the code red in A Few Good Men.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 06 November 2013 - 06:05 PM.

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