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#601 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:21 PM

Well if there was any doubt that John Jerry was going to walk in free agency...

 

Like Daniel, I'm disappointed that this report on the Wells report was so one-sided that it was basically a scapegoating tool for the 3 linemen. 

 

Unfortunately I don't think this is the end of this story; it's simply the beginning of the lawsuits.  Martin is going to come down hard looking for damages from someone.

 

Pouncey will play somewhere unless suspended by the NFL.  Jerry and Incognito, however, may be looking for new careers.

 

EDIT: The full 144 page document is here.


Edited by Hi, I'm VALUE!, 14 February 2014 - 12:23 PM.

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#602 SS#4-Life

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:27 PM

The Martin\Incognito investigation has concluded.. and it looks like the Martin camp wins!

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10455447/miami-dolphins-bullying-report-released-richie-incognito-others-responsible-harassment

 

“NFL investigator Ted Wells' search and inquiry on the Johnathan Martin -- Richie Incognito events, has officially been finalized. Wells' report on the Miami Dolphins' bullying scandal concluded that Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Mike Pouncey engaged in a pattern of harassment directed at not only Jonathan Martin, but another young Dolphins offensive lineman and an assistant trainer. The findings of Wells' report were released Friday, February 14. Wells said in a press release: "The Report finds that the assistant trainer repeatedly was the object of racial slurs and other racially derogatory language, that the other offensive lineman was subjected to homophobic name-calling and improper physical touching; and that Martin was taunted on a persistent basis with sexually explicit remarks about his sister and his mother and at times ridiculed with racial insults and other offensive comments." Dolphins owner Stephen Ross has already released a statement since Wells' report was submitted this morning. "We have just received the report from Ted Wells and will review it in detail before responding relative to the findings." Ross said. "When we asked the NFL to conduct this independent review, we felt it was important to take a step back and thoroughly research these serious allegations. As an organization, we are committed to a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another."

 

Expect Jerry & Pouncey to be the next Ross casualties. At least this can now be put behind them, and the Dolphins organization can move on.

this is unreal that so much was made out of so little. theres a dif between being pc and just being obnoxiuos. society is becoming downright silly


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#603 Beezer34

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:32 PM

There is no way anything happens to Pouncey.  He's a Pro Bowl center on a crappy offensive line. 

 

..don't be so sure about that Dan. This is an ultra-sensitive subject right now, and the fact that the investigation went public days after Michael Sam, could lead to serious ramifications for Pouncey. If there is anything homophobic and\or homosexual slur(s) in those transcripts, it could out Ross in a spot where his hand is forced.

Ross acted quickly with Incognito.. I expect him to do the same here.


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#604 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

Nope, no agenda there from 'ol Ted. Lmfao, what a joke... Although everyone knew Wells would side with Martin, Martin's mom is a good friend of his. Glad this ordeal is almost over now, get these two assclowns off my team. I never wanna hear their fvcking names again.


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#605 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:39 PM

Glancing over the executive summary, I can see the two OLine coaches and the head trainer will be gone by end of business for sure.

 

On Pouncey, they're not cutting him, or if they do they're out of their mind.  However, this being the last year on his current contract, he could be moved in a trade, and I suspect that Ross would be motivated for his employees to move him post-haste.  From a football stance, it makes no sense, but I can see Ross going over and above to try and move Pouncey.


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#606 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:43 PM

Yeah, Pouncey is going nowhere. And if the league has a problem with that, they can suck a fat one. Jim Turner's gone though. Fine by me, he sucks as an o-line coach anyway. Hence the hiring of Benton.


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#607 Daniel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:07 PM

If Martin does bring a lawsuit, I hope there's someone that has the balls not to settle immediately.  Martin's deposition, which I imagine could not be confidential, would be amazing. 

 

So Mr. Martin, it is true that you would brag about "shooting ___ in a woman's face"?  "Do you enjoy shooting __ in womens' faces?"  Mr. Martin, it's true that you were playing very poorly during the 2013 season and you got benched?  How many sacks would you estimate you gave up during 2013?  Would it surprise you that you ranked near the bottom of the NFL in this category?  It's true that you were worried about getting a new contract?  It's true that you would frequently go to strip clubs with Mr. Incognito?  It's true that you would tell Mr. Incognito that you were going to ___ his sister's __ with sandpaper?  Did you discuss your decision to leave the team with your mother?  Did you consider it legal advice from your mother? 

 

These questions will go on and on. 


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#608 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

If Martin does bring a lawsuit, I hope there's someone that has the balls not to settle immediately. Martin's deposition, which I imagine could not be confidential, would be amazing.

So Mr. Martin, it is true that you would brag about "shooting ___ in a woman's face"? "Do you enjoy shooting __ in womens' faces?" Mr. Martin, it's true that you were playing very poorly during the 2013 season and you got benched? How many sacks would you estimate you gave up during 2013? Would it surprise you that you ranked near the bottom of the NFL in this category? It's true that you were worried about getting a new contract? It's true that you would frequently go to strip clubs with Mr. Incognito? It's true that you would tell Mr. Incognito that you were going to ___ his sister's __ with sandpaper? Did you discuss your decision to leave the team with your mother? Did you consider it legal advice from your mother?

These questions will go on and on.

Lmfao, I'd watch that depo. It would be hilarious.


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#609 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

Richie is an idiot. How dumb could he be that he thought this report would show his innocence.  I think Martin is a victim who tried to do whatever to fit in. I think everyone should read the full report before commenting. The report is pretty damaging to a lot of people.

 

The Dolphins need to hit the reset button and that might include Philbin too. 


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#610 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:49 PM

They're all idiots. Everyone involved. No exceptions. But Martin isn't just some innocent victim. His parents are employment lawyers, they're buddies with Wells... Wells delayed the release of the report another week after it was already announced it would be released right after the Super Bowl (gee, I wonder why, probably needed a bigger check from the Martin clan since info was coming out that made Martin look like he was full of sh!t)... Bottom line- don't believe this report like it's gospel or something. Wells had an agenda in this whole thing. People always have agendas. Plus Martin never told any of the coaches about his problems either, so I'm not sure what anyone wants Philbin to do.


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#611 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:49 PM

Not that Philbin has done tremendously with regards to in-season performance, but I think it would be a shame for him to lose his job for an incident that, despite lawyers looking to lay blame on someone's head, he was exonerated for.  It's not an endorsement, but it shouldn't be that bad for him either.


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#612 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:08 PM

Not that Philbin has done tremendously with regards to in-season performance, but I think it would be a shame for him to lose his job for an incident that, despite lawyers looking to lay blame on someone's head, he was exonerated for. It's not an endorsement, but it shouldn't be that bad for him either.

I agree. Philbin will lose his job when the team lets us down AGAIN next season and only wins 7 games AGAIN and misses the playoffs AGAIN. And then we'll be have abother forced marriage because Ross will refuse to fire Hickey after only one year. This franchise gives me grey hairs, I swear...


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#613 Beezer34

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:18 PM

The Dolphins need to hit the reset button and that might include Philbin too. 

 

..and I think that's exactly what's going to happen here. Ross come out with the heavy hand, and the Dolphins will look fantastic from a PR standpoint.


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#614 Daniel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:19 PM

Richie is an idiot. How dumb could he be that he thought this report would show his innocence.  I think Martin is a victim who tried to do whatever to fit in. I think everyone should read the full report before commenting. The report is pretty damaging to a lot of people.

 

The Dolphins need to hit the reset button and that might include Philbin too. 

 

I really don't have the time or the inclination to read the whole thing.  However, if it makes no mention of the fact that Martin was playing poorly, that he was more than happy to go to strip clubs, that he sent the same tasteless text messages to Incognito, that Martin himself would participate in pranks, etc, etc., then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

 

The Phins might have to hit the reset button, but it would be an absolute joke if it was because of this.  If anything it would be a sign that the owner will just make decisions based on the media zeitgeist at any particular time, which is absolutely the worst way to run a team.


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#615 Daniel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

..and I think that's exactly what's going to happen here. Ross come out with the heavy hand, and the Dolphins will look fantastic from a PR standpoint.

 

He will do no such thing, because he's largely done it already.  There's a new GM, a new offensive coordinator, probably a new offensive line coach, and the scape goat for the whole thing will be gone.

 

What should Ross do now, fire the head coach based on a report that exonerated him anyway?  Get rid of the QB because of the allegations of a giant baby that couldn't block a defensive lineman if his mama brought a lawsuit on his behalf?  That's what would "hitting the reset button" would entail in this case. 

 

Really if the Wells report leads Ross to do anything other than implement a code of conduct or other things to placate the lawyers, he's a worse owner than even I thought.


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#616 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

..and I think that's exactly what's going to happen here. Ross come out with the heavy hand, and the Dolphins will look fantastic from a PR standpoint.

No chance. Turner will be fired and that's it.


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#617 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:58 PM

I really don't have the time or the inclination to read the whole thing.  However, if it makes no mention of the fact that Martin was playing poorly, that he was more than happy to go to strip clubs, that he sent the same tasteless text messages to Incognito, that Martin himself would participate in pranks, etc, etc., then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

 

The Phins might have to hit the reset button, but it would be an absolute joke if it was because of this.  If anything it would be a sign that the owner will just make decisions based on the media zeitgeist at any particular time, which is absolutely the worst way to run a team.

 

From what little I've digested of this, the stock reason given for most of the time that Martin went along with it is that he wanted to be accepted as a member of the team.  It depicts Martin as a man who has little spine to stand up to his aggressor (frequently he would commit to offseason activites and then try to cancel the last minute) but who also didn't know how to deal with things in other more productive ways.  It wasn't until he realized that this wasn't rookie hazing that he started to freak out and such.

 

The one big black mark for Martin on this is that the Wells report admits he should have gone to the Dolphins brass and reported it instead of going AWOL and through the media. 


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#618 Beezer34

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:07 PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325895/article/wells-report-reflects-poorly-on-miami-dolphins-coach-joe-philbin

 

"What stands out, when taken in full, is the utter cluelessness of the most important members of this franchise. How could Joe Philbin, the head coach, have no idea that there was a "pattern of harassment" being directed at two of his players, plus a member of his training staff. He apparently did not know that his offensive line coach Jim Turner, astonishingly, texted Martin after he left the team -- after the whispers about what had led him to check himself in for mental health care -- and asked him to issue a statement in support of his tormentor. Philbin asked Turner if there was bullying and Turner denied it. Turner told his boss that no one was being called vulgar names. The report said Turner was aware of a running "joke" that a player was gay and that on at least one occasion, Turner participated in the joke. He participated by giving a male blow-up doll to the player. Turner then played dumb with investigators while head trainer Kevin O'Neill grew hostile with them. Those are the people Philbin trusted with responsibility? This points to a significant issue in management, which leads straight to Philbin's door: There was no sense of accountability, no sense of fear that lying to a higher-up would have consequences, no sense that those in charge were supposed to lead by example and not plummet down to the depths of the lowest common denominator in their midst. Philbin's lieutenants failed him at the most important moment the franchise was facing, but that raises significant questions about why Philbin put them in positions of authority in the first place, and how he had nobody inside the building who could tell him what was happening under his nose. One of the sadly laughable aspects of the entire affair is that Incognito was on a leadership committee. That speaks volumes about the complete vacuum Philbin was operating in.

The general manager, Jeff Ireland, is already gone. The owner, Stephen Ross, has vowed to review the findings, although he must do more than that. Ross must review his own leadership of the team, to determine whether he has put in place people with the values he wants to represent -- and people with the fortitude to implement these values. Earlier this week, he issued a statement saying the Dolphins would welcome Michael Sam, the Missouri product who last week came out as the first openly gay NFL prospect, "with arms wide opened". If that sentiment is sincere, Ross has a long way to go, and not much time, to establishing a workplace that would not immediately set upon Sam."

 

..you guys can say what you feel, and I respect all your opinions regarding the Dolphins on this board. But the lynch-mob(s) are already out in full force, and the horse has left the barn. There is no way Philbin survives this imo.


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#619 Daniel

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:28 PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325895/article/wells-report-reflects-poorly-on-miami-dolphins-coach-joe-philbin

 

"What stands out, when taken in full, is the utter cluelessness of the most important members of this franchise. How could Joe Philbin, the head coach, have no idea that there was a "pattern of harassment" being directed at two of his players, plus a member of his training staff. He apparently did not know that his offensive line coach Jim Turner, astonishingly, texted Martin after he left the team -- after the whispers about what had led him to check himself in for mental health care -- and asked him to issue a statement in support of his tormentor. Philbin asked Turner if there was bullying and Turner denied it. Turner told his boss that no one was being called vulgar names. The report said Turner was aware of a running "joke" that a player was gay and that on at least one occasion, Turner participated in the joke. He participated by giving a male blow-up doll to the player. Turner then played dumb with investigators while head trainer Kevin O'Neill grew hostile with them. Those are the people Philbin trusted with responsibility? This points to a significant issue in management, which leads straight to Philbin's door: There was no sense of accountability, no sense of fear that lying to a higher-up would have consequences, no sense that those in charge were supposed to lead by example and not plummet down to the depths of the lowest common denominator in their midst. Philbin's lieutenants failed him at the most important moment the franchise was facing, but that raises significant questions about why Philbin put them in positions of authority in the first place, and how he had nobody inside the building who could tell him what was happening under his nose. One of the sadly laughable aspects of the entire affair is that Incognito was on a leadership committee. That speaks volumes about the complete vacuum Philbin was operating in.

The general manager, Jeff Ireland, is already gone. The owner, Stephen Ross, has vowed to review the findings, although he must do more than that. Ross must review his own leadership of the team, to determine whether he has put in place people with the values he wants to represent -- and people with the fortitude to implement these values. Earlier this week, he issued a statement saying the Dolphins would welcome Michael Sam, the Missouri product who last week came out as the first openly gay NFL prospect, "with arms wide opened". If that sentiment is sincere, Ross has a long way to go, and not much time, to establishing a workplace that would not immediately set upon Sam."

 

..you guys can say what you feel, and I respect all your opinions regarding the Dolphins on this board. But the lynch-mob(s) are already out in full force, and the horse has left the barn. There is no way Philbin survives this imo.

 

He will be the coach next season. Period. 

 

The woman who wrote this analysis you linked to is a first rate bimbo that is just regurgatating the same PC garbage that we've read everywhere else.  I mean, she's talking about the leadership committee, blaming it on Philbin, when its the players that choose the leadership committee (and Martin actually voted for Incognito).  Like everyone else, she's had a narrative, and she's sticking to it. 

 

And reading the whole piece, it would, if I were a GM, make me scared to death of drafting Michael Sam.  Not because he's gay, as such, because if he turns out to not be that good (which is more likely than not considering he projects as a mid-round pick, and some didn't even have him being drafted) and you have to cut him, just imagine all the PC that we'll be inundated with.


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#620 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:15 PM

Statement from Ross: “We have just received the report from Ted Wells and will review it in detail before responding relative to the findings. When we asked the NFL to conduct this independent review, we felt it was important to take a step back and thoroughly research these serious allegations. As an organization, we are committed to a culture of team-first accountability and respect for one another.“


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