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2013 Miami Dolphins Thread


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#621 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:25 PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000325895/article/wells-report-reflects-poorly-on-miami-dolphins-coach-joe-philbin

 

"What stands out, when taken in full, is the utter cluelessness of the most important members of this franchise. How could Joe Philbin, the head coach, have no idea that there was a "pattern of harassment" being directed at two of his players, plus a member of his training staff. He apparently did not know that his offensive line coach Jim Turner, astonishingly, texted Martin after he left the team -- after the whispers about what had led him to check himself in for mental health care -- and asked him to issue a statement in support of his tormentor. Philbin asked Turner if there was bullying and Turner denied it. Turner told his boss that no one was being called vulgar names. The report said Turner was aware of a running "joke" that a player was gay and that on at least one occasion, Turner participated in the joke. He participated by giving a male blow-up doll to the player. Turner then played dumb with investigators while head trainer Kevin O'Neill grew hostile with them. Those are the people Philbin trusted with responsibility? This points to a significant issue in management, which leads straight to Philbin's door: There was no sense of accountability, no sense of fear that lying to a higher-up would have consequences, no sense that those in charge were supposed to lead by example and not plummet down to the depths of the lowest common denominator in their midst. Philbin's lieutenants failed him at the most important moment the franchise was facing, but that raises significant questions about why Philbin put them in positions of authority in the first place, and how he had nobody inside the building who could tell him what was happening under his nose. One of the sadly laughable aspects of the entire affair is that Incognito was on a leadership committee. That speaks volumes about the complete vacuum Philbin was operating in.

The general manager, Jeff Ireland, is already gone. The owner, Stephen Ross, has vowed to review the findings, although he must do more than that. Ross must review his own leadership of the team, to determine whether he has put in place people with the values he wants to represent -- and people with the fortitude to implement these values. Earlier this week, he issued a statement saying the Dolphins would welcome Michael Sam, the Missouri product who last week came out as the first openly gay NFL prospect, "with arms wide opened". If that sentiment is sincere, Ross has a long way to go, and not much time, to establishing a workplace that would not immediately set upon Sam."

 

..you guys can say what you feel, and I respect all your opinions regarding the Dolphins on this board. But the lynch-mob(s) are already out in full force, and the horse has left the barn. There is no way Philbin survives this imo.

 

Think about what a pro football team is here.  53-61 players (counting practice squad), 20-30 coaches and other personnel...it's a traveling circus practically...and you're telling me that there's an expectation that he knows everything that goes on around the team at all times?

 

I don't know what will happen with Philbin...I honestly think he should get the crack at one more year running the team from a football perspective, and IMO what's in the Wells report isn't a sack-able offense...but I can guarantee you that no Head Coach knows everything about their team, especially when the players make actual efforts to hide it. 

 

If Philbin gets canned, it should have more to do with the info on "Player A" than it does with Martin, because Martin himself admitted to only talking to his family about the issue.  And unless your name is Charles Xavier, there's no way you could know that something THAT serious is going on, especially when the only indicator of it (foul language) is considered commonplace in the NFL culture.


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#622 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:47 PM

Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald; some of this sh!t is just insane... http://miamiherald.t...l#storylink=cpy


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#623 devilsrule33

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 06:12 PM

I don't get how anyone thinks Pouncey stays. He's a goner. No chance. This is an embarassment to the Dolphins, and if Philbin is lucky enough to keep his job, (the reason would be because he would never stand for this stuff if he did know)...well he is booting Pouncey off the team because he knows now.

 

That entire line has to be destroyed.


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#624 Beezer34

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:21 PM

I don't get how anyone thinks Pouncey stays. He's a goner. No chance. This is an embarassment to the Dolphins, and if Philbin is lucky enough to keep his job, (the reason would be because he would never stand for this stuff if he did know)...well he is booting Pouncey off the team because he knows now. That entire line has to be destroyed.


Pouncey's gone.. pure and simple. Reading the entire report, you really get to understand that he's just as wrong as Richie. There is no chance in hell that Miami will go and say: "okay.. Jonathan Martin, Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Jim Turner will all be shown the door.. but we'll single out Mike Pouncey and spare him" because he's a Probowler. That ain't happening.. sorry. The fact that this has all been made public in the wake of Michael Sam puts massive pressure on Ross to act quickly, and decisively. Miami needs to look like they take the brand seriously. By cutting\releasing all parties involved, they're showing that they're a no-nonsense professionally run organization, that weighs character above performance. It will be a PR nightmare if everyone except Pouncey gets released, and Ross knows that.

Philbin's trickier. He obviously is going to play the "I didn't know anything" card, and whether you want to believe him, or think he's full of sh!t, it's his only recourse at this point. I still think he gets fired.. but either way, he's dead-man-walking for 2014. If Philbin somehow coaches into this season, he'll be on an extremely short leash, and get the ax if his team starts the year poorly.. ala 0-4, 1-5 type start.
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#625 MadDog2020

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:30 PM

Yeah after reading the Jackson stuff, Pouncey is probably gone. And we'd be better for it probably. It's probably just best to cut bait with everyone involved in this fiasco and start fresh. But I'm telling you Beez, Ross won't fire Philbin. I'd fall on the floor if he did. Ross loves Philbin. He'll get 2014.


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#626 Beezer34

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:44 PM

In the short-term, 2014 is going to be a very rough season for Miami. You can't lose 4/5 of your offensive line in one offseason, and think you're going to be fine the following year.
In the long-term, Miami will benefit from bleeding out the cancer. Pouncey & Incognito are not the type of guys you want around young players.
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#627 Daniel

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:39 AM

In the short-term, 2014 is going to be a very rough season for Miami. You can't lose 4/5 of your offensive line in one offseason, and think you're going to be fine the following year.
In the long-term, Miami will benefit from bleeding out the cancer. Pouncey & Incognito are not the type of guys you want around young players.


The O-line was terrible to begin with. In any event Pouncey isn't going anywhere. Jerry is easily replaceable. Incognito left when the o-line improved slightly.

Remember when the story broke and the whole thing was supposed to fall apart? Well eventually it did, but not because of "bullying".

The Phins may very well be a crap team next year. It just won't be because of this. And I guarantee you, half the players in the league are happy that it wasn't them that got caught.

In the end, as much as a lawyer will want to think it, an NFL lockerroom is not like any other work place. That is why absolutely no one on the Dolphins, even those that didn't have a dog in the fight like Hartline refused to take Martin's side.

I really hope that Ross says thank you very much Mr. Wells, we'll take it from here.


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#628 Beezer34

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 12:49 AM

http://www.miamihera...to-pouncey.html

"Pouncey and Turner lied outright to Wells and his staff when pressed about details that others had corroborated. That could be the most damaging fact for Pouncey. The NFL has no tolerance for players or coaches who aren’t truthful with league investigators, as evidenced by the suspensions levied against the Saints in their bounty scandal."

Pouncey's gone Dan.. either by the hand of Ross, or a lengthly suspension by Goodell so long, that it won't even pay for Pouncey to suit up at all. He's battling multiple issues here beyond just the anti-gay slurs, and harassment charges. He lied throughout the investigation. That's grounds of a coverup, and there's no chance in hell Ross will provide a safe-harbor for MP in the face of Judge Roger.

Edit: NFL Network's Paul Burmeister even said how a Pouncey decision could be imminent within the next 24 hours.

Edited by Beezer34, 15 February 2014 - 12:50 AM.

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#629 Daniel

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 01:13 AM

http://www.miamihera...to-pouncey.html

"Pouncey and Turner lied outright to Wells and his staff when pressed about details that others had corroborated. That could be the most damaging fact for Pouncey. The NFL has no tolerance for players or coaches who aren’t truthful with league investigators, as evidenced by the suspensions levied against the Saints in their bounty scandal."

Pouncey's gone Dan.. either by the hand of Ross, or a lengthly suspension by Goodell so long, that it won't even pay for Pouncey to suit up at all. He's battling multiple issues here beyond just the anti-gay slurs, and harassment charges. He lied throughout the investigation. That's grounds of a coverup, and there's no chance in hell Ross will provide a safe-harbor for MP in the face of Judge Roger.

Edit: NFL Network's Paul Burmeister even said how a Pouncey decision could be imminent within the next 24 hours.


The big "lie" that Pouncey supposedly told was not knowing anything about comments about Martin's sister. Not exactly Watergate. Turner claimed not to have any recollection about a blow up doll.

As I've always said, the press has a narrative. You can tell from the article about the Christmas "physical attack" on Martin that this writer is playing up, but which the Wells report actually said was much ado about nothing.

You're right ough that I didn't consider what Goodel might do. So he ultimately might force Ross's hand.


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#630 MadDog2020

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 08:44 AM

The fact that Pouncey is connected to Aaron Hernandez and illegal guns won't help is case in the Court of Goodell either.


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#631 Daniel

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

The fact that Pouncey is connected to Aaron Hernandez and illegal guns won't help is case in the Court of Goodell either.


That's true.

My guess is that Ross will probably realize, after talking with Hickey, that Pouncey is too good to cut bait on, especially since the oline otherwise stinks. So I think they'll leave the discipline to Goodell, and just put it behind them. In a way, Ross is playing with house money. Everyone expects him to tear it all down. Might as well see what you have, and give Philbin another chance. It was an 8-8 team, which is not awful. And you might have something in your QB especially if the coordinator is as good as people think.

The Hernandez stuff doesn't help, but you can only go so far on guilt by association.




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#632 MantaRay

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:39 PM

Incognito is finished.   Not sure what is going to be done to Pouncy, I could see him suspended or traded.


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#633 CarterforPresident

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:22 PM

Obvious lack of leadership down in MIA.
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#634 Daniel

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

Obvious lack of leadership down in MIA.


Their leadership isn't any better or worse than your average team. The problem is that they had an overly sensitive and slimed player in Martin that caused it to get this far. Notice how the other supposedly "bullied"player was quick to dispute the Wells report.


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#635 CarterforPresident

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:58 PM

Head coach Joe Philbin was not aware of what was going on, but that the offensive line coaches were aware of the situation. In assessing this, I'm not entirely sure what would be worse: Philbin being in the dark, or Philbin covering up the situation.

Whatever Philbin did or did not know, this entire scenario shows a jaw-dropping lack of leadership. It shows a lack of leadership from the coaching staff, and it shows a lack of leadership within the players themselves. I understand the idea that a coach will remain outside the loop on certain things, and let players police themselves. The problem is that this involved the exact of players self-policing.
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#636 Daniel

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:48 AM

Head coach Joe Philbin was not aware of what was going on, but that the offensive line coaches were aware of the situation. In assessing this, I'm not entirely sure what would be worse: Philbin being in the dark, or Philbin covering up the situation.

Whatever Philbin did or did not know, this entire scenario shows a jaw-dropping lack of leadership. It shows a lack of leadership from the coaching staff, and it shows a lack of leadership within the players themselves. I understand the idea that a coach will remain outside the loop on certain things, and let players police themselves. The problem is that this involved the exact of players self-policing.


Oye vey, he basically didn't realize that Martin was a gigantic pansy. He wasn't monitoring people's text messages. And again, buried at the bottom of every story is one of the supposed victims saying he didn't think any of it was a big deal.

It's more certain that Pete Carroll is aware that half of his team is roided up, and that he ran one of the most corrupt college programs in the country. But he's a smiley faced guy, so he's someone we should hold up as an example of character. Puhleeze.


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#637 devilsrule33

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:50 AM

Their leadership isn't any better or worse than your average team. The problem is that they had an overly sensitive and slimed player in Martin that caused it to get this far. Notice how the other supposedly "bullied"player was quick to dispute the Wells report.


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You seem like a smart guy..but are you fvcking serious?!?!? "Their leadership isn't any better or worse than your average team."

 

I can almost guarantee that it was the worst in the NFL. I hate that people are saying that. Richie is the leader of the offense and maybe the captain of the entire offense because Tanny was only a first and second year QB who probably didn't feel comfortable to step in and tell Richie to shut the fvck up. Incognito is as big of a meathead you'll ever see with any leadership role.

 

This stuff dos not happen in other NFL locker rooms anywhere close to this extent.

 

The other player to dispute it did so because he is collateral damage. He had his name dragged in to this when he is just trying to make an NFL team and follow his dream. He's willing to suck it up because he is no longer on the Dolphins and near Richie's abuse and probably had a really nice time in Carolina under Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil, two great veteran lineman), where he was free from insults. He might even be able to handle it better, but it doesn't make it right.

 

Daniel, not sure why you want to diminish this. Because it happened on your favourite team? Who gives a crap. Richie is a fvcking idiot. He was a horrible leader. What happened was awful. Everyone part of it should be gone. No need to lessen it.


Edited by devilsrule33, 17 February 2014 - 10:37 AM.

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#638 Daniel

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:10 AM

You seem like a smart guy..but are you fvcking serious?!?!? "Their leadership isn't any better or worse than your average team."

I can almost guarantee that it was the worst in the NFL. I hate that people are saying that. Richie is the leader of the offense and maybe the captain of the entire offense because Tanny was only a first and second year QB who probably didn't feel comfortable to step in and tell Richie to shut the fvck up. Incognito is as big of a meathead you'll ever see with any leadership role.

This stuff dos not happen in other NFL locker rooms anywhere close to this extent.

The other player to dispute it did so because he is collateral damage. He had his name dragged in to this when he is just trying to make an NFL team and follow his dream. He's willing to suck it up because he is no longer on the Dolphins and near Richie's abuse and probably had a really nice time in Carolina under Jordan Gross and Ryan Kalil, two great veteran lineman)l, where he was free from insults. He might even be able to handle it better, but it doesn't make it right.

Daniel, not sure why you want to diminish this. Because it happened on your favourite team? Who gives a crap. Richie is a fvcking idiot. He was a horrible leader. What happened was awful. Everyone part of it should be gone. No need to lessen it.


First, you're using circular logic. Guy complains he's obviously a bullying victim. Guy doesn't complain and says he didn't think it was a big deal he's obviously hiding his true feelings.

I was never and Incognito fan, and as anyone can tell, I never shy away from sh!tting on my own team when they deserve it, and even when they don't. But if the leadership were so bad, the rest of the team would not be coming to Incgonitos defense. And frankly the only reason why everyone else in the league didn't brush this aside was because a lot of other players don't like Incognito for other reasons, same way the rest of hockey did not like Claude Lemieux. You notice no one is saying that Jon Jerry (who the Wells report says did stuff even worse than incognito) will have trouble playing for another team.

Its the press narrartive here really has my blood boiling, probably because I see how they do it everywhere. First it was racism. Then of course, it turned out other black players were involved so that narrative didn't work. Then it was extorting money from rookies, until it turns out every team does it, and some teams even worse, like Dallas. And that Martin participated in it himself. Even the bullying narrative fell apart for a while, when we saw Martin's vulgar texts and pictures of him living it up in strip clubs.

In the end, half of the league is probably breathing a sigh of relief that it was the Dolphins that got caught, and that Jonathan Martin was not their teammate.


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#639 MadDog2020

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

Incognito is a fvcking piece of sh!t. That much is abundantly clear. His career is over. Done. Finished.


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#640 SS#4-Life

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:04 PM

The fact that Pouncey is connected to Aaron Hernandez and illegal guns won't help is case in the Court of Goodell either.

didnt think of that. good point.


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