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It's time, Who gets fired?


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#41 Marshall

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:34 AM

We should fire Marty's back.


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#42 JWomp

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:37 AM

 Lou's about as oblivious as those on this board that still believe we're in a slump.

 

Getting to the Stanley Cup Final was not a fluke. The Devils are a good team, and they're just in a slump.

 

But I suppose you know more than Lou and the rest of the Devils staff. What NHL team do you work for again?


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#43 NJDevs4978

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:38 AM

Am I alone thinking maybe putting Stevens in charge of our defense is a mistake? It is the exact same group of guys as last year but they look noticeably worse this year. Either Stevens is bitin more than he can chew or Robinson really was that good or both.

 

Larry's a genius as an assistant, Stevens is a rookie.  I also think the defense eight-man merry-go-round doesn't help, different scratches and pairings every single game (certainly hasn't helped Fayne among others, whose play has dropped off the most).  Not to mention our two most mobile guys are paired with each other, leaving three old guys and Fayne, who's not particuarly mobile himself.



Getting to the Stanley Cup Final was not a fluke. The Devils are a good team, and they're just in a slump.

 

But I suppose you know more than Lou and the rest of the Devils staff. What NHL team do you work for again?

 

Correction, were a good team.  No Parise/Zubrus this year, and Zajac's offense went to Minnesota with Zach.  No Marty either for probably forever with the way things are going.


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#44 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

agreed.  There have been a number of things Lou has done over the years that has frustrated me.  the 2 you just mentioned.  Many of you have mentioned Sykora which I also agree with.

 

He has a lot to do with bringing our team 3 cups, but he's also cost us cups too.  All of you fans that have followed the devils as long as I have know how important Claude Lemieux was.  he was such a special player and after getting the Conn Smyth in 95 he gets traded and guess what devils miss the playoffs while his new team the Avs win the cup, then the devils don't show up and lose early 3 straight years while being a 1 seed.

 

Lou than wises up brings in Alexander Mogilny and brings back old # 22.  they win the cup again!  then he doesn't bring back #22 again!  I truly believe the devils would beat the Avs with Lemiuex and would have won another between 97-99 if he was a devil this whole time.  He was that important and with him as a devil for life the devils would now have 4 or 5 cups, most likely 5 during that stretch.

 

and after 01, it didn't make sense to let Sykora go and Mogilny.  I know he wanted Niedermayer back, but he was too great of a player to ever let be a free agent, he should have locked him up long term before the end of 04.  I remember Niedermayer even had to go to arbertration to get a raise from Lou.  How can you treat a player like him like that!

 

and then you give all this money to Zajak and Salvador while letting guys like Claude Lemieux, Niedermayer, sykora, Mogilny go over the years.  Those are players you keep for the rest of their careers not Salvador and Zajak!  that's always bothered me and then you see the ducks win in 07 with Niedermayer, during that stretch he could have led the devils to another cup as well.  there is no reason our team couldn't have 6 cups right now if #27 and #22 never left.

 

 

Lou's lost his touch. It's been evident for a while. It's definitely debatable, but I always thought he should have given Brylin and Madden at least another year.


Edited by GIANTS79, 06 March 2013 - 09:42 AM.

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#45 DevsMan84

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:58 AM

agreed.  There have been a number of things Lou has done over the years that has frustrated me.  the 2 you just mentioned.  Many of you have mentioned Sykora which I also agree with.

 

He has a lot to do with bringing our team 3 cups, but he's also cost us cups too.  All of you fans that have followed the devils as long as I have know how important Claude Lemieux was.  he was such a special player and after getting the Conn Smyth in 95 he gets traded and guess what devils miss the playoffs while his new team the Avs win the cup, then the devils don't show up and lose early 3 straight years while being a 1 seed.

 

Lou than wises up brings in Alexander Mogilny and brings back old # 22.  they win the cup again!  then he doesn't bring back #22 again!  I truly believe the devils would beat the Avs with Lemiuex and would have won another between 97-99 if he was a devil this whole time.  He was that important and with him as a devil for life the devils would now have 4 or 5 cups, most likely 5 during that stretch.

 

and after 01, it didn't make sense to let Sykora go and Mogilny.  I know he wanted Niedermayer back, but he was too great of a player to ever let be a free agent, he should have locked him up long term before the end of 04.  I remember Niedermayer even had to go to arbertration to get a raise from Lou.  How can you treat a player like him like that!

 

and then you give all this money to Zajak and Salvador while letting guys like Claude Lemieux, Niedermayer, sykora, Mogilny go over the years.  Those are players you keep for the rest of their careers not Salvador and Zajak!  that's always bothered me and then you see the ducks win in 07 with Niedermayer, during that stretch he could have led the devils to another cup as well.  there is no reason our team couldn't have 6 cups right now if #27 and #22 never left.

 

We really had no shot at Niedermayer no matter how much Lou threw money his direction because we didn't have Rob Niedermayer at that time.

 

Sykora was branded as soft in 2002 and was even questioned on his heart by Stevens during that year's playoffs.  That trade brought in Tverdovsky that brought in some depth at D and brought in Friesen who was huge in the 2003 playoffs so I think that trade worked out pretty well.

 

Mogilny was great during the season in the 2000-01 season but was nowhere to be seen after the 2nd round in that year's playoffs.  When he had his second swing with the team in 05-06 he was more harmful than helpful so I am not going to be all broken up about him.

 

If I remember right Lemieux there was some kind of contract issue with him after the 95 season so Lou was forced to trade him.  While he is one of my all time Devils and his 2nd swing with the Devils in 99-2000 proved to be one of the pieces in the puzzle, I wouldn't say he was the lucky charm.  We were also blessed with the emergence of the A-line being the top line in the NHL as well as the rookie years of Gomez, Rafalski, White and Madden who would all be key in the runs in 2001 and 2003 as well.


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#46 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:48 AM

I agree about all the 2000 season pts you made.  that team in 2000 and 2001 was truly stacked with the veterans and all the young players coming in that you mentioned.  and Claude wasn't as vital in 2000 as he was in 95, but he was important to the team.  I even remember Stevens saying how they missed him in 2001 when they played the Avs and that series was so close, I think he makes the difference there.  He's one of those guys I would have wanted him to stay a devil for his whole career (once they got him) like Scott Stevens did.  Even when you watch the 95 video, Lemieux makes comments about how they can be good for awhile (and he was right, but unfortanately he only had another half a year there in 2000).  Lou should have found a way to make things right and not trade him after 95.

 

and you know how special Niedermayer was.  A guy like that should never be a free agent in the first place.  You are right about his brother, but Scott was that good that you trade for his brother and if that is what he wants (they ended up getting Rob N a few years later anyway).  Look at the extension he gave to Zajak this year, that should have been done with Niedermayer before he became a free agent.  He should have been the air apparent to Scott Stevens.  I know Lou wanted him back, but he could have found a way.  Like I said a guy like #27 don't even let him hit free agency.  (he was suppose to be the next big captain after Stevens).  While Lou wanted him back he could have found a way.

 

Mogilny wasn't the player he was in 05/06 so you are right there, but still he had another year or 2 left of solid play.  I know he didn't show up in the 3rd round and the finals in 01, but he's still a threat on offense and he should have been there aother couple of years.

 

I didn't know the stuff about Sykora and you made some great pts there and like you said Friesen was huge, so I'll give you that one! And I never mentioned it, but I never had a problem with the other part of that line Arnott being traded because I was always a fan of Newendyk (however you spell that).  (and at least he kept Elias all these years)

 

but Claude and Niedermayer are the 2 that stung the most in my years of watching the devils (far more than Parise leaving)

 

 

We really had no shot at Niedermayer no matter how much Lou threw money his direction because we didn't have Rob Niedermayer at that time.

 

Sykora was branded as soft in 2002 and was even questioned on his heart by Stevens during that year's playoffs.  That trade brought in Tverdovsky that brought in some depth at D and brought in Friesen who was huge in the 2003 playoffs so I think that trade worked out pretty well.

 

Mogilny was great during the season in the 2000-01 season but was nowhere to be seen after the 2nd round in that year's playoffs.  When he had his second swing with the team in 05-06 he was more harmful than helpful so I am not going to be all broken up about him.

 

If I remember right Lemieux there was some kind of contract issue with him after the 95 season so Lou was forced to trade him.  While he is one of my all time Devils and his 2nd swing with the Devils in 99-2000 proved to be one of the pieces in the puzzle, I wouldn't say he was the lucky charm.  We were also blessed with the emergence of the A-line being the top line in the NHL as well as the rookie years of Gomez, Rafalski, White and Madden who would all be key in the runs in 2001 and 2003 as well.


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#47 losdiablos103

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

I wanted Sykora back before the season started.  It's too late now.


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#48 aylbert

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:10 AM

I agree about all the 2000 season pts you made.  that team in 2000 and 2001 was truly stacked with the veterans and all the young players coming in that you mentioned.  and Claude wasn't as vital in 2000 as he was in 95, but he was important to the team.  I even remember Stevens saying how they missed him in 2001 when they played the Avs and that series was so close, I think he makes the difference there.  He's one of those guys I would have wanted him to stay a devil for his whole career (once they got him) like Scott Stevens did.  Even when you watch the 95 video, Lemieux makes comments about how they can be good for awhile (and he was right, but unfortanately he only had another half a year there in 2000).  Lou should have found a way to make things right and not trade him after 95.

 

and you know how special Niedermayer was.  A guy like that should never be a free agent in the first place.  You are right about his brother, but Scott was that good that you trade for his brother and if that is what he wants (they ended up getting Rob N a few years later anyway).  Look at the extension he gave to Zajak this year, that should have been done with Niedermayer before he became a free agent.  He should have been the air apparent to Scott Stevens.  I know Lou wanted him back, but he could have found a way.  Like I said a guy like #27 don't even let him hit free agency.  (he was suppose to be the next big captain after Stevens).  While Lou wanted him back he could have found a way.

 

Mogilny wasn't the player he was in 05/06 so you are right there, but still he had another year or 2 left of solid play.  I know he didn't show up in the 3rd round and the finals in 01, but he's still a threat on offense and he should have been there aother couple of years.

 

I didn't know the stuff about Sykora and you made some great pts there and like you said Friesen was huge, so I'll give you that one! And I never mentioned it, but I never had a problem with the other part of that line Arnott being traded because I was always a fan of Newendyk (however you spell that).  (and at least he kept Elias all these years)

 

but Claude and Niedermayer are the 2 that stung the most in my years of watching the devils (far more than Parise leaving)

 

How you compare eras over different owners and financial situations astound me.    Also, Lou tried to get Rob Niedermayer but Burke knew the deal and then used that as leverage when Nieds hit the market.     

 

'01 went to game 7...  it's a toss up.   If we won that  ~1~ game (after we already won 3 against them), your arguement disapears?    Yet, that's such a bad Lou mistake?

The A Line had problems... and Lou got the best return he could...  bringinging us our '03 cup with Langenbrunner, Niewendyk, Friesen...


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#49 JWomp

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:13 AM

Mogilny was great during the season in the 2000-01 season but was nowhere to be seen after the 2nd round in that year's playoffs.  When he had his second swing with the team in 05-06 he was more harmful than helpful so I am not going to be all broken up about him.

 

Mogilny wasn't as bad in 05-06 as everybody seems to remember. The guy put up 12 goals and 25 points in 34 games.

 

But in general, I agree with you. Lou has done WAY more good than harm.


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#50 DevsMan84

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:17 AM

I agree about all the 2000 season pts you made.  that team in 2000 and 2001 was truly stacked with the veterans and all the young players coming in that you mentioned.  and Claude wasn't as vital in 2000 as he was in 95, but he was important to the team.  I even remember Stevens saying how they missed him in 2001 when they played the Avs and that series was so close, I think he makes the difference there.  He's one of those guys I would have wanted him to stay a devil for his whole career (once they got him) like Scott Stevens did.  Even when you watch the 95 video, Lemieux makes comments about how they can be good for awhile (and he was right, but unfortanately he only had another half a year there in 2000).  Lou should have found a way to make things right and not trade him after 95.

 

and you know how special Niedermayer was.  A guy like that should never be a free agent in the first place.  You are right about his brother, but Scott was that good that you trade for his brother and if that is what he wants (they ended up getting Rob N a few years later anyway).  Look at the extension he gave to Zajak this year, that should have been done with Niedermayer before he became a free agent.  He should have been the air apparent to Scott Stevens.  I know Lou wanted him back, but he could have found a way.  Like I said a guy like #27 don't even let him hit free agency.  (he was suppose to be the next big captain after Stevens).  While Lou wanted him back he could have found a way.

 

Mogilny wasn't the player he was in 05/06 so you are right there, but still he had another year or 2 left of solid play.  I know he didn't show up in the 3rd round and the finals in 01, but he's still a threat on offense and he should have been there aother couple of years.

 

I didn't know the stuff about Sykora and you made some great pts there and like you said Friesen was huge, so I'll give you that one! And I never mentioned it, but I never had a problem with the other part of that line Arnott being traded because I was always a fan of Newendyk (however you spell that).  (and at least he kept Elias all these years)

 

but Claude and Niedermayer are the 2 that stung the most in my years of watching the devils (far more than Parise leaving)

 

 

Lou tried pretty hard for a number of years to get Rob Niedermayer.  However the Anaheim GM knew that Lou wanted him badly and was asking an absurd price because he had the leverage over Lou.  I really do think Lou tried his hardest with Scotty Niedermayer but just couldn't do it.

 

I really do not think missing Claude was the reason we lost in 2001.  We were up 3 games to 2 in that series before the Devils had an epic meltdown and lost the last 2 games.  Claude wasn't scoring as much in those days so not sure what would have brought.



How you compare eras over different owners and financial situations astound me.    Also, Lou tried to get Rob Niedermayer but Burke knew the deal and then used that as leverage when Nieds hit the market.     

 

'01 went to game 7...  it's a toss up.   If we won that  ~1~ game (after we already won 3 against them), your arguement disapears?    Yet, that's such a bad Lou mistake?

The A Line had problems... and Lou got the best return he could...  bringinging us our '03 cup with Langenbrunner, Niewendyk, Friesen...

 

Exactly.  We lost a cup where we should have won one, but on the flip because of Lou we got the 03 cup when we should have lost one.  Winning these cups these days are just a perfect storm combination of hot streaks, timing and luck.



Mogilny wasn't as bad in 05-06 as everybody seems to remember. The guy put up 12 goals and 25 points in 34 games.

 

But in general, I agree with you. Lou has done WAY more good than harm.

 

He wasn't bad in 05-06 but all signs and quotes from that year point to him as a locker room cancer.  Why get rid of your best scorer by means of a mysterious long-term injury at the same time your previous best scorer Elias comes back into the lineup and the team gets noticibly better with him?


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#51 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:38 AM

Why do you feel the devils won a cup they shouldn't in 03?  was it the Senators series?  They definitely pulled out a miracle win in game 7, but don't forget they blew a 3-1 lead in that series to even get to game 7  (I do agree they should have won in 2001)

 

 

Lou tried pretty hard for a number of years to get Rob Niedermayer.  However the Anaheim GM knew that Lou wanted him badly and was asking an absurd price because he had the leverage over Lou.  I really do think Lou tried his hardest with Scotty Niedermayer but just couldn't do it.

 

I really do not think missing Claude was the reason we lost in 2001.  We were up 3 games to 2 in that series before the Devils had an epic meltdown and lost the last 2 games.  Claude wasn't scoring as much in those days so not sure what would have brought.



 

Exactly.  We lost a cup where we should have won one, but on the flip because of Lou we got the 03 cup when we should have lost one.  Winning these cups these days are just a perfect storm combination of hot streaks, timing and luck.



 

He wasn't bad in 05-06 but all signs and quotes from that year point to him as a locker room cancer.  Why get rid of your best scorer by means of a mysterious long-term injury at the same time your previous best scorer Elias comes back into the lineup and the team gets noticibly better with him?


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#52 DevsMan84

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Why do you feel the devils won a cup they shouldn't in 03?  was it the Senators series?  They definitely pulled out a miracle win in game 7, but don't forget they blew a 3-1 lead in that series to even get to game 7  (I do agree they should have won in 2001)

 

IMO I think the 2002-03 Devils on paper were the least talented team up-front to win the cup in the last 20 years.  They wont it because of goaltending, defense and the fact that Elias, Gomez, Friesen, Niedermayer and Langenbrunner played out of thier minds and were on hot-streaks.  It really was a perfect storm and timing that they won it and not all that dissimilar to the run they had last year, but with a different final result.


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#53 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:44 AM

I wasn't comparing any eras I was pretty much talking about the 95-03 era they had and just pretty much bringing up some things about Lou I didn't like (agreeing with one of the other members that mentioned he let John Madden go too soon, there has just been to much of that from Lou over the years and this year is another example of Sykora having a solid year last year not being brought back).  You make a good point about Niedermayer, but to me it's more than a coincidence that the devils won in 95 and 2000 with him and the Avs won in 96 with Claude while the devils missed the playoffs in 96 and then played poorly as a 1 seed three straight years in 97-99.  They would have won more if they kept him those years

 

 

How you compare eras over different owners and financial situations astound me.    Also, Lou tried to get Rob Niedermayer but Burke knew the deal and then used that as leverage when Nieds hit the market.     

 

'01 went to game 7...  it's a toss up.   If we won that  ~1~ game (after we already won 3 against them), your arguement disapears?    Yet, that's such a bad Lou mistake?

The A Line had problems... and Lou got the best return he could...  bringinging us our '03 cup with Langenbrunner, Niewendyk, Friesen...


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#54 DevsMan84

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

I wasn't comparing any eras I was pretty much talking about the 95-03 era they had and just pretty much bringing up some things about Lou I didn't like (agreeing with one of the other members that mentioned he let John Madden go too soon, there has just been to much of that from Lou over the years and this year is another example of Sykora having a solid year last year not being brought back).  You make a good point about Niedermayer, but to me it's more than a coincidence that the devils won in 95 and 2000 with him and the Avs won in 96 with Claude while the devils missed the playoffs in 96 and then played poorly as a 1 seed three straight years in 97-99.  They would have won more if they kept him those years

 

Sorry but I find that quite a stretch if you think they weren't more successful in the playoffs between 95 and 2000 all because of 1 player leaving.


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#55 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

they weren't as stacked as 2000 or 2001, but they still had some big pieces from those teams.  You are right about all of those players being huge during that run.  It's still a crime not one of those guys got the conn smyth in 2003.  But for me they still had a lot of that championship atmosphere around them after a very disappointing 2002.  Last year completely came out of nowhere and I agree with you about last year, but 03 was still part of that special run they had for awhile.

 

 

 

 

IMO I think the 2002-03 Devils on paper were the least talented team up-front to win the cup in the last 20 years.  They wont it because of goaltending, defense and the fact that Elias, Gomez, Friesen, Niedermayer and Langenbrunner played out of thier minds and were on hot-streaks.  It really was a perfect storm and timing that they won it and not all that dissimilar to the run they had last year, but with a different final result.


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#56 RangersSuck23

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

So back to who gets fired... since this topic went way off of that subject... i would go with Chico. He's turning into such a homer and it's killing this team, but seriously, we are in a slump.  Hopefully, we get out of it tomorrow when im at the Rock


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#57 Beetlebum

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

The amount of mongos in this thread is frightening.

 

People calling for Lou's head, really? Get it fvcking together the guy just robbed the Kings and you want to fire him? The team will be fine and he will make a trade when the moment is right.


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#58 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

that's fine man, to each their own my friend.  But I still think he made that kind of a difference and it hurt the team a lot in 96-99 not having him and the devils winning in 95 and 2000 with him and the avs winning in 96 with him show that.  He was a big game player

 

 

Sorry but I find that quite a stretch if you think they weren't more successful in the playoffs between 95 and 2000 all because of 1 player leaving.


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#59 DevsMan84

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

they weren't as stacked as 2000 or 2001, but they still had some big pieces from those teams.  You are right about all of those players being huge during that run.  It's still a crime not one of those guys got the conn smyth in 2003.  But for me they still had a lot of that championship atmosphere around them after a very disappointing 2002.  Last year completely came out of nowhere and I agree with you about last year, but 03 was still part of that special run they had for awhile.

 

Oh 2003 was definitely special and it was at the very least partially born out of the disappointments of 2002 and the moves Lou made.  While the defense and goaltending remained the same as the previous three years, the forward group was not especially intimidating that year.  Hell our best scorer Elias only had 28 goals and 57 points that year!


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#60 GIANTS79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

I know you are joking about Chico which is funny, but I think he's been fair.  He's been critical of the Devils the last few games I caught.  On Monday I thought he was critical of their play.  I didn't see yesterday's game so I don't know how he was there

 

 

So back to who gets fired... since this topic went way off of that subject... i would go with Chico. He's turning into such a homer and it's killing this team, but seriously, we are in a slump.  Hopefully, we get out of it tomorrow when im at the Rock


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