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Unfortunately, some more bad news in Devils-land / Marty


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#41 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

Which is why I am surprised the Devils haven't started planning for this years ago.

 

As much as Lou is a genius as a GM, not planning for this has the potential of being perhaps his greatest folly in his career.

 

They drafted 2 goalies in the 1st round, one more in the 2nd, and none of them have panned out.  They also drafted Scott Clemmensen ages ago, who didn't really pan out either.  In 2010 they drafted 2 goalies and signed another in 2011.  The larger issue is having 2 goalies, one of whom could get hurt, and the other could be bad because of age.  But then you look at a team like St. Louis who had two goalies last year, one good and the other great, both in the prime of their careers, and now this year both are horrible.  Goaltending is damn near impossible to predict.


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#42 JWomp

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:05 PM

Which is why I am surprised the Devils haven't started planning for this years ago.

 

As much as Lou is a genius as a GM, not planning for this has the potential of being perhaps his greatest folly in his career.

 

Lou has been planning for this....it's not his fault that the goalies the organization drafted over the years never had a shot to break into the NHL (because of Marty's dominance). Ahonen...Clemmensen....Frazee....and now Wedgewood and Clermont. Lou has kept his fair share of goaltending prospects on-hand. Goalies can be hit or miss, and people criticize the Devils for ignoring the position beyond Brodeur or for not preparing for the future after Brodeur, but in reality, the goalies the Devils had in the wings just never had a legitimate shot at at being on the Devils with Marty playing so often, aside from Clemmensen's brief stint as a starter when Brodeur was hurt. Soon, guys like Wedgewood, Clermont, and Kinkaid will have an opportunity here.



They drafted 2 goalies in the 1st round, one more in the 2nd, and none of them have panned out.  They also drafted Scott Clemmensen ages ago, who didn't really pan out either.  In 2010 they drafted 2 goalies and signed another in 2011.  The larger issue is having 2 goalies, one of whom could get hurt, and the other could be bad because of age.  But then you look at a team like St. Louis who had two goalies last year, one good and the other great, both in the prime of their careers, and now this year both are horrible.  Goaltending is damn near impossible to predict.

 

Is it really fair to say they didn't pan out? It's not like any goalies the team has drafted since Brodeur were ever given an NHL opportunity.


Edited by JWomp, 07 March 2013 - 02:10 PM.

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#43 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:17 PM

In regard to the goalies, I know Lou has been drafting them quite a bit the last few years.  My issue is that once they are drafted, he is slow to develop them and Marty's play the last few years has convinced Lou can hold off on bringing them to the next level.  Right now we are not really developing any goalies at the NHL level and right now we have a goalie tandem with a combined age of about 80 years.  What if after next year both retire and now we have to bring up Kinkaid and Wedgewood full time.  Are the Devils just going to throw them both to the wolves in their rookie year?  I'd rather Lou have started or at least start now to really put the younger guys in at least part-time so when Marty retires we have a goalie that has at least some experience at the NHL level.


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#44 JWomp

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

In regard to the goalies, I know Lou has been drafting them quite a bit the last few years.  My issue is that once they are drafted, he is slow to develop them and Marty's play the last few years has convinced Lou can hold off on bringing them to the next level.  Right now we are not really developing any goalies at the NHL level and right now we have a goalie tandem with a combined age of about 80 years.  What if after next year both retire and now we have to bring up Kinkaid and Wedgewood full time.  Are the Devils just going to throw them both to the wolves in their rookie year?  I'd rather Lou have started or at least start now to really put the younger guys in at least part-time so when Marty retires we have a goalie that has at least some experience at the NHL level.

 

I would assume that whoever the organization pegs as Brodeur's replacement will spend a year backing up a veteran goalie first, whether it's Brodeur or someone brought in for one season from the outside to bridge the gap.


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#45 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

I would assume that whoever the organization pegs as Brodeur's replacement will spend a year backing up a veteran goalie first, whether it's Brodeur or someone brought in for one season from the outside to bridge the gap.

 

Well I would at least feel more comfortable with that scenario than any other I can see happening.  I mean I said it could be Lou's biggest folly but doesnt mean it will happen.


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#46 Beetlebum

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:41 PM

Slow to develop them?

 

The Devils had the best goalie in the league up until Marty got hurt in Sutter's final year here. Do you realize how many mediocre to average teams he carried to playoffs post lockout.


Lou : Sorry Marty but we are going to have to sit you for a few because some player we drafted in the 5th round deserves a stretch of games.

 

This board sometimes is full of idiots.


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#47 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

They drafted 2 goalies in the 1st round, one more in the 2nd, and none of them have panned out.  They also drafted Scott Clemmensen ages ago, who didn't really pan out either.  In 2010 they drafted 2 goalies and signed another in 2011.  The larger issue is having 2 goalies, one of whom could get hurt, and the other could be bad because of age.  But then you look at a team like St. Louis who had two goalies last year, one good and the other great, both in the prime of their careers, and now this year both are horrible.  Goaltending is damn near impossible to predict.

 

Ahonen played for some God-awful Albany teams...I think that, combined with Marty having a stranglehold on the position, pretty much killed whatever shot he had at the NHL.  I remember in 2005-06 (I think), Marty was hurt, and Clemmer got some games, and Ahonen was called up to be the backup...he never got into a game, but I remember watching him during warmups once...who knows if it meant anything, but he looked TERRIBLE. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#48 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:01 PM

Slow to develop them?

 

The Devils had the best goalie in the league up until Marty got hurt in Sutter's final year here. Do you realize how many mediocre to average teams he carried to playoffs post lockout.


Lou : Sorry Marty but we are going to have to sit you for a few because some player we drafted in the 5th round deserves a stretch of games.

 

This board sometimes is full of idiots.

 

 

Did you read at least Triumph's post?  We have drafted goalies in the first round, so why not give them a few games a year and Marty can play the other 75-78 games he usually played.  Besides I was mostly talking about since 2010 and not before that.

 

Marty has also been getting injured more often since the 2008-09 season for decent stretches so why not break in some of the goalies then?  Instead we signed veteran backups who stick with the team for a couple of years before leaving when they really start dropping off or want a little more work than 5-7 games a year.


Edited by DevsMan84, 07 March 2013 - 04:03 PM.

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#49 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

Did you read at least Triumph's post?  We have drafted goalies in the first round, so why not give them a few games a year and Marty can play the other 75-78 games he usually played. 

 

In fairness, you really want those guys getting work, if you think there's a chance they're going to amount to anything.  Like I said, unfortunately in Ahonen's case, he played on bad team after bad team in getting his work...hard for a goalie to do that without getting his confidence shaken after a while.  It was like everything was lined up for him to fail, though with scouts everywhere looking for goaltending, if he was really that impressive and looked like a guy who just needed to get a real shot, someone likely would've seen that, and traded for him (especially since the cost wouldn't have been that high).   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#50 JWomp

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

Ahonen played for some God-awful Albany teams...I think that, combined with Marty having a stranglehold on the position, pretty much killed whatever shot he had at the NHL.  I remember in 2005-06 (I think), Marty was hurt, and Clemmer got some games, and Ahonen was called up to be the backup...he never got into a game, but I remember watching him during warmups once...who knows if it meant anything, but he looked TERRIBLE. 

 

Ahonen has put up solid numbers in the KHL the last few years:

 

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=45127


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#51 DevsMan84

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

In fairness, you really want those guys getting work, if you think there's a chance they're going to amount to anything.  Like I said, unfortunately in Ahonen's case, he played on bad team after bad team in getting his work...hard for a goalie to do that without getting his confidence shaken after a while.  It was like everything was lined up for him to fail, though with scouts everywhere looking for goaltending, if he was really that impressive and looked like a guy who just needed to get a real shot, someone likely would've seen that, and traded for him (especially since the cost wouldn't have been that high).   

 

That is true prior to 2009, but since then Marty has been out quite a bit.  Why not bring up one of the goalies we have in the system to be the backup instead of some aging veteran who we won't see again in a couple years?


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#52 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

Ahonen has put up solid numbers in the KHL the last few years:

 

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=45127

 

I did see that...don't know what to make of it, but I've gotta think he's gotta be happy to be winning SOMEWHERE at this point.  That Albany run was rough.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#53 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:12 PM

Is it really fair to say they didn't pan out? It's not like any goalies the team has drafted since Brodeur were ever given an NHL opportunity.

 

Yes, none of them were ever NHL regulars.  So none of them panned out.  Clemmensen became an NHL backup 12 years after having been drafted.


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#54 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

That is true prior to 2009, but since then Marty has been out quite a bit.  Why not bring up one of the goalies we have in the system to be the backup instead of some aging veteran who we won't see again in a couple years?

 

They've gotten good play from their backups since 2008-09...Clemmer, Weekes, Danis, Hedberg...this is really the only year the backup hasn't been good, and with Hedberg, the plan clearly called for him to spell Marty, and not be the game-in game-out guy.  The fact that he's starting AGAIN seems to say more about how the team feels about Kinkaid and Frazee than it does about Hedberg.   

 

I'm guessing the Devils simply don't think the guys in the system are ready, and feel more comfortable with guys who at least have some NHL experience. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#55 squishyx

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:35 PM

.I mean Florida had their goalie coach suit up for a game. I don't think it's THAT far-fetched to suggest we get Terreri to come out of retirement and do the same.

I don't care how far fetched the idea is, words can not express how awesome this would be. I would drive 2 hours through this stupid blizzard and break my 2013 boycott to see Terreri play another game.
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#56 JWomp

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

Yes, none of them were ever NHL regulars.  So none of them panned out.  Clemmensen became an NHL backup 12 years after having been drafted.

 

It wasn't possible for them to pan out in New Jersey....


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#57 95Crash

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 04:57 PM

Did you read at least Triumph's post?  We have drafted goalies in the first round, so why not give them a few games a year and Marty can play the other 75-78 games he usually played.  Besides I was mostly talking about since 2010 and not before that.

 

Marty has also been getting injured more often since the 2008-09 season for decent stretches so why not break in some of the goalies then?  Instead we signed veteran backups who stick with the team for a couple of years before leaving when they really start dropping off or want a little more work than 5-7 games a year.

 

I have often wondered that myself.

 

Sometimes I wonder if it never happens because the team is so afraid of losing even one game because of a young goalie that they'd ALWAYS rather go with an experienced backup instead.


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#58 NJDevs4978

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:03 PM

I have often wondered that myself.

 

Sometimes I wonder if it never happens because the team is so afraid of losing even one game because of a young goalie that they'd ALWAYS rather go with an experienced backup instead.

 

That was definitely part of it.  There've been a number of years where it seemed as if the Devils were more concerned with maxing out regular season position as opposed to getting ready for the playoffs.


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#59 Triumph

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:43 PM

It wasn't possible for them to pan out in New Jersey....

 

They weren't good enough to be signed by other teams.  Damphousse's numbers actually don't look half-bad but for whatever reason he was done after 2004.  Not all talent eventually makes it to the NHL, but plenty of goalies have stuck around for years and years until they got their shot.  Just look at Hedberg - 94 draft pick (overage at that point too, he was eligible for the draft in 1991), doesn't make the NHL until 2001.  Chris Mason was a Devils' draft pick in 1995.  They didn't sign him - it took until 2003-04 for him to get his foot in the door as an NHL backup.


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#60 maxpower

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 05:45 PM

Well, to be fair, overseas goalies don't show up immediately.   Lundqvist was a throwaway pick and took 5 years to show up.    Which is why those lunkhead Rangers fans that think he's going to break records are sorely mistaken.


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