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Potential Lessons from San Jose about how to Deal with 8 NHL Dmen


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#1 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

Greetings,

SJ, like NJ (before Tallinder got hurt) has great NHL dman Depth. With the emergence of Matt Irwin, they now have 8 NHL quality Dmen

Boyle - Irwin
Vlasic - Stuart
Demers - Braun
Murray (debatable but bear with me) - Burns

SJ, also like NJ has a dearth of scoring forwards. The overwhelming majority of their offense comes from their top 4 forwards and the first unit PP. Desperate for offense, the team experimented with moving Brent Burns to forward (Play the point on the 2nd PP unit). I thought this was a pretty stupid idea before the game but given the drastic situation the offense was in, an experiment was certainly in order.

It was only one game but the early returns are very promising. Burns was a dominant force freed of his defensive responsibilities. His skating and puck posession in particular in the offensive zone was spectacular. The Sharks outshot St. Louis 41-21 (but lost 4-2) and generated some incredible chances. It was possibly the best the team has looked all year.

Perhaps a similar experiment is in order in NJ? Moving Zidlicky to forward, and keeping him on the first unit PP could significantly improve the offense. There's a good chance in 2 games I'll be telling you how stupid this Burns experiment is but right now I'm pretty excited by it.

It's sort of that classic theory in basketball coaching to just get your best players out there no matter what "position" they are. Sharks have 7 players who should get ice time to help win games. Forcing only 6 to play because of positional concerns is potentially counter productive.
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#2 '7'

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

Why are you a sharks fan again?


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#3 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 11:57 AM

Why are you a sharks fan again?

I moved to the Bay Area and converted.

Some more info:
http://www.njdevs.co...howtopic=124919

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 13 March 2013 - 12:14 PM.

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#4 '7'

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:03 PM

why? what was wrong with the Devils?


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^7^ is just defending his sport sheeps.. as Alcibiades the exiled Athenian rationalizes in his speech to the enemy Spartans, he wants to take revenge on Athens because he loves it and can't stand to see the state it's in now - Triumph
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#5 2ELIAS6

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

A sharks fan on a devils board?
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#6 Zubie#8

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

A sharks fan on a devils board?

He has been here a long time and contributes a lot of of good stuff to this board.


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#7 aylbert

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:10 PM

He did have a pretty lengthy post about his switch...    it's hard following a team on the other coast, that isn't your team.    

And he obviously still is active here...  he just switched his primary team  (re: his siganture)

 

It would be interesting to try Zidlicky at forward in a bind, but ultimately, we need to find offense in our offense.


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#8 Pepperkorn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

Thsi actually crossed my mind a while ago....  I'm just not sure - our D isn't good is the rpoblem.  And it's slow...  Zids is fast - but I think he's not the best D but he CAN get there is he'd STAY in position and not puck chase -- but it looks like he's been directed to puck chase to boost scoring but then the D is holey....

 

I don't know.  I can't see what's going on there really. and I've missed too many games seen too many on a hicuppy feed.

 

I look forward to others thought - not just kind of vapid Shark fan? kind of responses. and with that, I probably just tanked this whole thread now...  sorry  :blush:


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#9 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

why? what was wrong with the Devils?

I don't want to hijack the thread. But i can go to Sharks games, the games aren't always at 4:00 PM, and I think being a fan of local sports teams is a good way to become integrated into the community at large. I still like the Devils and their players, and want them to succeed. But the primary team I'm following the NHL through is San Jose.
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#10 Beetlebum

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

He did have a pretty lengthy post about his switch...    it's hard following a team on the other coast, that isn't your team.    

And he obviously still is active here...  he just switched his primary team  (re: his siganture)

 

It would be interesting to try Zidlicky at forward in a bind, but ultimately, we need to find offense in our offense.

 

Its a bullsh!t excuse with GCL, NHL Center Ice, and the advent of the internet. I moved out of the NYC area when I was 15 to Indianapolis, I didn't become a Blackhawks fan.

 

CADEVILSFAN lives in San Jose and he didn't convert.


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#11 gardenstatepkwy

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

 hijacked thread  :doh1:

 

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Edited by gardenstatepkwy, 13 March 2013 - 12:34 PM.

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#12 aylbert

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

Its a bullsh!t excuse with GCL, NHL Center Ice, and the advent of the internet. I moved out of the NYC area when I was 15 to Indianapolis, I didn't become a Blackhawks fan.

 

CADEVILSFAN lives in San Jose and he didn't convert.

 

He can catch a lot of games at 4pm and the Devs are in SJ every other week, so good point.

 

I wouldn't switch my primary allegiance, but I would defintely add the Sharks as a 1B...   I think he said he did the same, until he found he was more interested in what the Sharks were doing... for the locality of it all.


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#13 Pepperkorn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

Jeebees  - what am I reD?  how many typos and complete loss of meaning can one post have?  Lysdexia lowbs! FWT?


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#14 NJDevs4978

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

hijacked thread :doh1:

direction.gif


That's what happens around here, we're kind of an ethnocentric board when it comes to fans of other teams posting here. Only Clown is really accepted and even he rarely posts 'here' anymore, only in OT.
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#15 NJDevs4978

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

As far as the actual point of the thread, I don't think it's feasible here. I doubt Zidlicky or Harrold could physically handle being a forward and playing along the boards for an extended period, and we have so little mobility on our blue line as it is, taking some away would only exacerbate that issue.
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"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

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-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#16 Joonas #6

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:16 PM

Brent Burns also scored his first of the season yesterday.


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#17 Devilsfan118

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

Oh my God, can we not jump on a guy who lives on the other side of the country about his business? Get over yourselves, Jesus

Anyway..Harrold's been used at forward before, but besides that I think any of our D besides perhaps Zidlicky are too slow to play the forward position. And if you take Zid off the back end, you lose his breakout passing/offensive contributions from the blue line. Probably not the best idea with the Devils.

Wasn't Burns used at forward ages ago in Minnesota?
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#18 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:18 PM

I always wanted to see greene play the wing.


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#19 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

As far as the actual point of the thread, I don't think it's feasible here. I doubt Zidlicky or Harrold could physically handle being a forward and playing along the boards for an extended period, and we have so little mobility on our blue line as it is, taking some away would only exacerbate that issue.

It's true. Burns is 6' 5" which helps make him a dynamic presence at forward.
 

Wasn't Burns used at forward ages ago in Minnesota?

Burns was drafted as a forward by the Wild, and converted to D by Jacques Lemaire. This is his first work at forward in the NHL as far as I know.

Edited by halfsharkalligatorhalfman, 13 March 2013 - 01:24 PM.

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#20 Pepperkorn

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 01:44 PM

Jacques is so me... but with dude trauma to boot  - I so understand where his blinders are.

 

Yeah -- I never thought of Zids not being able to sustain.  He's also one of the few D playing his objective - which for him is control the puck more than defend the goal..

 

I'm not sure how I feel about everything right now.  I'm getting a vibe there is a slight disconnect between defence and offence.  Offence pretty much understands how to play with defensive responsibility.  But our D doesn't get how to be offensively defencive ... only how to be offensive to our defense sensibilities.  OK I tried to hard for that one and no one gets it because I'm barely making sense anyhow....

 

It just seems our D doesn't know how t defend enough to enable our forwards.  this isn't new to this season -- it's just not getting fixed where it was starting to by the time playoffs rolled around -- it's backslid.

 

so now I'm thinking it's intuitive thinking.... they had their backs up and senses alive during playoffs.  now they can't intuit - their sight is weak and they dont get how to see through the lack of adrenaline. Larry is pretty intuitive -- I'd say most players are - that's why non-NHL guys can often coach better than they play (and players can't coach as well as they played).  Players can't teach intuition and sometimes have nothing further to go on.  blahblahblah.... ok whatever -- I'm too busy today!  Grrrrr.


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