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GDT 3/19/13: NY Rags @ Devils


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#221 hystyk28

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:16 AM

Fix the PP, fix the team.
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#222 caron14

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

Hey guy , dont forget marty will be back, his attitude will change the locker room mood and on ice not only he is our best goaltender, his outside the net plays is awesome for our slow Def. Oh and loktionov will be back (best fit for Kovalchuk in my thought)

We need to score, we need to play hard and we need to BELIEVE!
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#223 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:22 AM

yea lokti and kovy work well together. i noticed that every pass to kovy was behind him/slow, etc last night, he never had a genuine one timer opportunity. 


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#224 caron14

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:24 AM

yea lokti and kovy work well together. i noticed that every pass to kovy was behind him/slow, etc last night, he never had a genuine one timer opportunity.

true story
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#225 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think the Moose hate is a little much. He's a career backup being forced into a starting role with a condensed schedule. He's going to have good and bad moments, and he had his share of both last night. Hopefully Marty's back can last the season and playoffs. If they miss this year, it'd be a shame but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I think what I'm realizing is that next year could get very ugly if this pinched nerve thing is permanent.

 

Does anyone remember when Marty got hurt early last season against LA, and he said he aggravated an injury that he couldn't fix surgically? I wonder if this is related.


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#226 NCDevsFan

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

I thought Henrique has a terrible game.
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#227 LucifersDog

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:09 AM

I think the Moose hate is a little much. He's a career backup being forced into a starting role with a condensed schedule. He's going to have good and bad moments, and he had his share of both last night. Hopefully Marty's back can last the season and playoffs. If they miss this year, it'd be a shame but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I think what I'm realizing is that next year could get very ugly if this pinched nerve thing is permanent.

 

Does anyone remember when Marty got hurt early last season against LA, and he said he aggravated an injury that he couldn't fix surgically? I wonder if this is related.

 

 

Thank you, if he could only score goals like Clarkson has while Hedberg has been in goal.


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#228 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:16 AM

I think the Moose hate is a little much. He's a career backup being forced into a starting role with a condensed schedule. He's going to have good and bad moments, and he had his share of both last night. Hopefully Marty's back can last the season and playoffs. If they miss this year, it'd be a shame but it wouldn't be the end of the world. I think what I'm realizing is that next year could get very ugly if this pinched nerve thing is permanent.

 

Does anyone remember when Marty got hurt early last season against LA, and he said he aggravated an injury that he couldn't fix surgically? I wonder if this is related.

 

Well even though it's not Hedberg's fault that he's put in that situation and that he's doing what he can (which is obviously not enough) it's up to the coaches and management to correct that before it's too late and they havent done anything to help the situation. Just like they havent replaced Zach and Sykora's production. 

 

If we start next season with the same duo it's a joke.


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#229 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:37 AM

Well even though it's not Hedberg's fault that he's put in that situation and that he's doing what he can (which is obviously not enough) it's up to the coaches and management to correct that before it's too late and they havent done anything to help the situation. Just like they havent replaced Zach and Sykora's production. 

 

If we start next season with the same duo it's a joke.

 

Call Lou.  You have it all figured out.

 

Yeah, turned out Hedberg wasn't the guy this season to have to fill Marty's "start every game" shoes, and clearly having two goalies around 40 was risky, but what did you want Lou to do?  How were they supposed to "correct" this in-season?  Bring up Kinkaid or Frazee and give them a shot?  Maybe, but since neither one of them got that shot, I have to assume that DeBoer and Lou and others truly in the know didn't feel that either goalie would've gotten the job done.  If I am to guess, I am thinking someone younger will be backing up Marty next season, with a shot to start a significant number of games.  If anything, I think Lou knows that no matter how well Marty can still play at times and no matter what kind of shape Marty keeps himself in, he can't count on Marty staying healthy anymore.   

 

A Zach reference...who saw that coming?  Lou HIMSELF said you just don't replace a guy like Zach.  Yeah, it's going to hurt short-term.  But you're not always going to get instant-gratification moves and obvious replacements.  Sometimes the recovery efforts take time and patience.   


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#230 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:47 AM

Call Lou.  You have it all figured out.

 

Yeah, turned out Hedberg wasn't the guy this season to have to fill Marty's "start every game" shoes, and clearly having two goalies around 40 was risky, but what did you want Lou to do?  How were they supposed to "correct" this in-season?  Bring up Kinkaid or Frazee and give them a shot?  Maybe, but since neither one of them got that shot, I have to assume that DeBoer and Lou and others truly in the know didn't feel that either goalie would've gotten the job done.  If I am to guess, I am thinking someone younger will be backing up Marty next season, with a shot to start a significant number of games.  If anything, I think Lou knows that no matter how well Marty can still play at times and no matter what kind of shape Marty keeps himself in, he can't count on Marty staying healthy anymore.   

 

A Zach reference...who saw that coming?  Lou HIMSELF said you just don't replace a guy like Zach.  Yeah, it's going to hurt short-term.  But you're not always going to get instant-gratification moves and obvious replacements.  Sometimes the recovery efforts take time and patience.   

 

Well that's Lou's job to figure it out not mine. But wtv he did or didnt do isnt working out. and i'd assume Lou said HIMSELF "you just CAN'T replace a guy like Zach." but it could be "Don't" cause thats clearly what he did... he didnt get anyone to at least try to fill that production from Zach and Sykora. It works to make small acquisition to patch things on trade deadline just to boost your team... but we lost a 30 and a  20 goals scorer and he simply didnt bring anyone that could come close to patch for that lack. It's a fact, he didnt. I guess he assumed Zajac's production since he's back would be enough, i guess he thought having like 6 4th line players should do to. 


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#231 SMantzas

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:01 AM

Here's some Wednesday morning comedy:

 

Ilya Kovalchuk- 10 goals on 105 shots 9.5%

Patrik Elias- 9 goals on 70 shots 12.9%

David Clarkson- 11 goals on 111 shots 9.9%

Stephen Gionta- 3 goals on 35 shots 8.6%

Ryan Carter- 3 goals on 40 shots 7.5%

Travis Zajac- 5 goals on 55 shots 9.1%

Marek Zidlicky- 3 goals on 65 shots 4.6%

Poni- 1 goal on 28 shots 3.6 %

Matteau- 1 goal on 22 shots 4.5%


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#232 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:18 AM

Well that's Lou's job to figure it out not mine. But wtv he did or didnt do isnt working out. and i'd assume Lou said HIMSELF "you just CAN'T replace a guy like Zach." but it could be "Don't" cause thats clearly what he did... he didnt get anyone to at least try to fill that production from Zach and Sykora. It works to make small acquisition to patch things on trade deadline just to boost your team... but we lost a 30 and a  20 goals scorer and he simply didnt bring anyone that could come close to patch for that lack. It's a fact, he didnt. I guess he assumed Zajac's production since he's back would be enough, i guess he thought having like 6 4th line players should do to. 

 

Exactly, so stop trying to make it sound like it's so friggin' simple and that Lou should've just been able to easily replace both players .  Lou is thorough and I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one...I am guessing he didn't see anyone to his liking enough to overpay (which is what tends to happen when bringing in UFAs).  So be it.  Sometime the quick fix just isn't there.  I can understand his thinking re: Zajac...it's hard to believe that he has four assists in 30 GP.  I don't know a soul on Earth who could've seen THAT coming.  I would think by this point, he'd have 10 or so by accident.    

 

Though lack of scoring has clearly hurt the Devils, when you have a goalie putting up an .886% in 17 starts, it's going to make for some rough going.  Your complaining is built on a faulty premise, that quick and obvious solutions are always there, if only a guy like Lou was observant enough to see them all.  You may want to look at the other side of that coin, and realize that maybe, just maybe, a guy like Lou is smart enough to see that quick and obvious solutions WEREN'T there this off-season.  The fact remains, you've seen your team get to five Finals and miss the playoffs three times since '88-'89.  Some seasons it doesn't all fall into place, and this one's not over yet.   

 

Not saying Lou is perfect...no GM is or ever will be.  He's had his share of follies and moves that seemed good on paper, but just didn't work out.    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 20 March 2013 - 10:30 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#233 Triumph

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

Well that's Lou's job to figure it out not mine. But wtv he did or didnt do isnt working out. and i'd assume Lou said HIMSELF "you just CAN'T replace a guy like Zach." but it could be "Don't" cause thats clearly what he did... he didnt get anyone to at least try to fill that production from Zach and Sykora. It works to make small acquisition to patch things on trade deadline just to boost your team... but we lost a 30 and a  20 goals scorer and he simply didnt bring anyone that could come close to patch for that lack. It's a fact, he didnt. I guess he assumed Zajac's production since he's back would be enough, i guess he thought having like 6 4th line players should do to. 

 

This is a Moneyball lesson - you don't 'replace' 30 goals.  I mean, I suppose you can, but it's silly to look at it that way.  The Devils had horribly unbalanced scoring last season - sure they had a bunch of guys with 30 goals, but beyond that, it was a graveyard.  This year, the scoring is more balanced.  People talking about Sykora have to STFU, we don't miss him one bit.  I'm sure he was going to score 5 goals off faceoffs again and shoot above his career average because that's what 35 year old players do, typically.  The Devils have lower lines that can score goals (again last night, the 4th line was on the ice for a goal!  That literally did not happen last year until game 78).

 

The percentages stink and you can't outrun the percentages unless you are Detroit in 2008 dominant.


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#234 devilsrule33

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:33 AM

Also, for everyone ragging on Lou, no one knows what he tried to do. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean he didn't look to sign Semin or call 20 GMs seeing if a scorer was available. The Parise signing not happening till July 3rd forced him to miss a few players. You don't badly overpay either to fix an issue. There is enough talent on this team to get a good amount of goals. It's a slump, but this just as easily could have happened with Parise.

 

As for Hedberg, he made a mistake tonight, but  he also made 3 ridiculous saves. He wasn't the reason they lost.


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#235 2ELIAS6

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:38 AM

Here's some Wednesday morning comedy:
 
Ilya Kovalchuk- 10 goals on 105 shots 9.5%
Patrik Elias- 9 goals on 70 shots 12.9%
David Clarkson- 11 goals on 111 shots 9.9%
Stephen Gionta- 3 goals on 35 shots 8.6%
Ryan Carter- 3 goals on 40 shots 7.5%
Travis Zajac- 5 goals on 55 shots 9.1%
Marek Zidlicky- 3 goals on 65 shots 4.6%
Poni- 1 goal on 28 shots 3.6 %
Matteau- 1 goal on 22 shots 4.5%


when you look at it like that.... god thats sad, especialy for kovy.... i mean i feel like zajac really hasnt done much of anything this year so far...its like after he got his little contract he quit producing...although its obviously not just him from the facts above here no one is producing much... this team can be so much better, i hope this last month of hockey we have is more enjoyable to watch
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#236 2ELIAS6

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

Also, for everyone ragging on Lou, no one knows what he tried to do. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean he didn't look to sign Semin or call 20 GMs seeing if a scorer was available. The Parise signing not happening till July 3rd forced him to miss a few players. You don't badly overpay either to fix an issue. There is enough talent on this team to get a good amount of goals. It's a slump, but this just as easily could have happened with Parise.

As for Hedberg, he made a mistake tonight, but he also made 3 ridiculous saves. He wasn't the reason they lost.

does anyone recall why we werent able to re sign a deal with zach? were the numbers too far off from what he wanted or was he just looking to dump us and move else where? Im assuming it was the numbers being off?... but how far off were they?...not implying that he would have made a complete difference here but you never know, i definently miss seeing him out there.

Edited by Sik02gt, 20 March 2013 - 10:41 AM.

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#237 DevsMan84

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

does anyone recall why we werent able to re sign a deal with zach? were the numbers too far off from what he wanted or was he just looking to dump us and move else where? Im assuming it was the numbers being off?... but how far off were they?...not implying that he would have made a complete difference here but you never know, i definently miss seeing him out there.

 

I sometime miss him too, and then I remember that $98 million over 13 years contract he signed and that definitely takes the sting out of that.

 

We already have a monster contract with Kovy and we really do not need another.


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#238 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

This is a Moneyball lesson - you don't 'replace' 30 goals.  I mean, I suppose you can, but it's silly to look at it that way.  The Devils had horribly unbalanced scoring last season - sure they had a bunch of guys with 30 goals, but beyond that, it was a graveyard.  This year, the scoring is more balanced.  People talking about Sykora have to STFU, we don't miss him one bit.  I'm sure he was going to score 5 goals off faceoffs again and shoot above his career average because that's what 35 year old players do, typically.  The Devils have lower lines that can score goals (again last night, the 4th line was on the ice for a goal!  That literally did not happen last year until game 78).

 

The percentages stink and you can't outrun the percentages unless you are Detroit in 2008 dominant.

 

In fairness, I don't think Sterio was looking for Sykora specifically to come back, just to see his production replaced.  I think part of Sterio's problem is he sees 50 goals "gone" from the lineup, and thinks, "OK, well, Lou should be able to find two new guys who can score 50 goals between them, right now."  It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and not the right one. 

 

Like what was said in "Moneyball", it looked like the Devils, at least initially, were trying to replace some of those "lost" 50 goals in the aggregate.  Problem is they're not going in for Zajac, Kovalchuk is a few goals off what you'd expect, and they've stopped going in for Clarkson, though on the season he's probably right around where he should be (11 goals in 30 GP pro-rates to 30 in a full 82-game season...if we had been told Clarkson would be good for 11 goals in 30 GP, we probably all sign up for it).  Then you have some guys missing games, and no one has really overachieved this season from a pure goal-scoring standpoint.  So unfortunately the aggregate hasn't really happened, especially lately.  


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#239 Zubie#8

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

Boychuk on waivers for the 4th time haha.

 

Why not? :P


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#240 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

In fairness, I don't think Sterio was looking for Sykora specifically to come back, just to see his production replaced.  I think part of Sterio's problem is he sees 50 goals "gone" from the lineup, and thinks, "OK, well, Lou should be able to find two new guys who can score 50 goals between them, right now."  It's a very simplistic way of looking at it, and not the right one. 

 

Like what was said in "Moneyball", it looked like the Devils, at least initially, were trying to replace some of those "lost" 50 goals in the aggregate.  Problem is they're not going in for Zajac, Kovalchuk is a few goals off what you'd expect, and they've stopped going in for Clarkson, though on the season he's probably right around where he should be (11 goals in 30 GP pro-rates to 30 in a full 82-game season...if we had been told Clarkson would be good for 11 goals in 30 GP, we probably all sign up for it).  Then you have some guys missing games, and no one has really overachieved this season from a pure goal-scoring standpoint.  So unfortunately the aggregate hasn't really happened, especially lately.  

 

pretty much, and no i don't oversimplify things like you seem obsess to tag me with that belief.

 

What we lost with Zach?

 

His forecheck: we're not winning battles as much deep in the zone, especially since we lost zub too.

 

His scoring: Zach was scoring goals that no one else on our team could score, those super quick rush/wraparound like against Philly last year), those goals are important when youre in a tight game.

 

His passing: Zach was making great plays and was working hard to help his linemates and he WAS making his linemates better. Bunch of our guys are struggling now, Zajac would be a lot better with Zach.

 

PK: debatable some say he was not great on the PK for a reason or another, to me a was a beast. Fine we can live without him on the PK but now we have guys like Gionta killing penalties every games.

 

PP: Again Zach was not incredible on the PP but was certainly drawing intention and could help. The problem is again since he's gone our depth is challenge, we saw terrible PK players on our PP many many times.

 

Shootouts: Well i dont really have to explain that one right? Kovy is awesome. Elias it's up in the air is seriously never know with him, Clarkson as one move, Henrique is not as good as we would expect... then what ?

 

So my whole point is... Lou tried to fix the loss of what "Zach was bringing" strictly internally and we don't have the depth to do that.  And it's giving bigger roles to guys who can't fill those shoes.

 

Guys like Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zub, Poni, Clarkson, etc etc already had their roles WITH Zach aboard. You can't say "Travis will cover for Zach on the PP..." he was playing WITH HIM. He was already part of that play.

 

so Lou got us... Kostopoulos, Barch, Butler, burned a ELC year of Matteau who was not really ready and Lokti (like i said somewhere Lokti is fvcking awesome but im pretty damn sure Lou didnt know he could help that much right away, it was a depth move at the time) so those guys are NOT filling the void of what we lost with Zach.


Edited by SterioDesign, 20 March 2013 - 11:49 AM.

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