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GDT 3/19/13: NY Rags @ Devils


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#241 SMantzas

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

pretty much, and no i don't oversimplify things like you seem obsess to tag me with that belief.

 

What we lost with Zach?

 

His forecheck: we're not winning battles as much deep in the zone, especially since we lost zub too. Agreed. But we're still generating lots of chances and cycling the puck well

 

His scoring: Zach was scoring goals that no one else on our team could score, those super quick rush/wraparound like against Philly last year), those goals are important when youre in a tight game. Once again, I agree. I don't think anyone would have predicted most of our players would shoot well below their career average

 

His passing: Zach was making great plays and was working hard to help his linemates and he WAS making his linemates better. Bunch of our guys are struggling now, Zajac would be a lot better with Zach. Parise is not a very good passer and doesn't have great vision

 

PK: debatable some say he was not great on the PK for a reason or another, to me a was a beast. Fine we can live without him on the PK but now we have guys like Gionta killing penalties every games. We're still scoring SH at a pretty high rate, but Parise isn't the reason why we're giving up so many. First of all, Brodeur and Hedberg were amazing on the PK last year, this season, not so much. Parise doesn't have anything to do with that.

 

PP: Again Zach was not incredible on the PP but was certainly drawing intention and could help. The problem is again since he's gone our depth is challenge, we saw terrible PK players on our PP many many times. Maybe they weren't utilizing him correctly, but I dont think he's a big loss here

 

Shootouts: Well i dont really have to explain that one right? Kovy is awesome. Elias it's up in the air is seriously never know with him, Clarkson as one move, Henrique is not as good as we would expect... then what ? Agreed

 

So my whole point is... Lou tried to fix the loss of what "Zach was bringing" strictly internally and we don't have the depth to do that.  And it's giving bigger roles to guys who can't fill those shoes.

 

Guys like Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zub, Poni, Clarkson, etc etc already had their roles WITH Zach aboard. You can't say "Travis will cover for Zach on the PP..." he was playing WITH HIM. He was already part of that play. 


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#242 NJDevils1214

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

pretty much, and no i don't oversimplify things like you seem obsess to tag me with that belief.

What we lost with Zach?


His forecheck: we're not winning battles as much deep in the zone, especially since we lost zub too.

His scoring: Zach was scoring goals that no one else on our team could score, those super quick rush/wraparound like against Philly last year), those goals are important when youre in a tight game.

His passing: Zach was making great plays and was working hard to help his linemates and he WAS making his linemates better. Bunch of our guys are struggling now, Zajac would be a lot better with Zach.

PK: debatable some say he was not great on the PK for a reason or another, to me a was a beast. Fine we can live without him on the PK but now we have guys like Gionta killing penalties every games.

PP: Again Zach was not incredible on the PP but was certainly drawing intention and could help. The problem is again since he's gone our depth is challenge, we saw terrible PK players on our PP many many times.

Shootouts: Well i dont really have to explain that one right? Kovy is awesome. Elias it's up in the air is seriously never know with him, Clarkson as one move, Henrique is not as good as we would expect... then what ?

So my whole point is... Lou tried to fix the loss of what "Zach was bringing" strictly internally and we don't have the depth to do that. And it's giving bigger roles to guys who can't fill those shoes.

Guys like Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zub, Poni, Clarkson, etc etc already had their roles WITH Zach aboard. You can't say "Travis will cover for Zach on the PP..." he was playing WITH HIM. He was already part of that play.

so Lou got us... Kostopoulos, Barch, Butler, burned a ELC year of Matteau who was not really ready and Lokti (like i said somewhere Lokti is fvcking awesome but im pretty damn sure Lou didnt know he could help that much right away, it was a depth move at the time) so those guys are NOT filling the void of what we lost with Zach.



Actually if you go back and watch the ppgs that kovy and Elias score Parise has a lot of assists.
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#243 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:56 AM

like i said it's more about having guys like Gionta on the PK rather than a good defensive player like Zach that is hurting our PK

 

also Parise was making great plays and was a good passer i don't know why someone would say the opposite.


Edited by SterioDesign, 20 March 2013 - 11:57 AM.

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#244 SMantzas

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

like i said it's more about having guys like Gionta on the PK rather than a good defensive player like Zach that is hurting our PK

 

also Parise was making great plays and was a good passer i don't know why someone would say the opposite.

He's not a great passer at all. Where are you getting this from? I'd say he's average to slightly above average. His main assets are work ethic, speed, board play and hand eye coordination.  His shooting and passing abilities aren't anything special


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#245 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:07 PM

He's not a great passer at all. Where are you getting this from? I'd say he's average to slightly above average. His main assets are work ethic, speed, board play and hand eye coordination.  His shooting and passing abilities aren't anything special

 

fair enough to say he's slightly above average, but he was still a better passer than most of of our guys except Elias and Kovy and you can throw another name in there just for the sake of it. 

 

my point is with that above average passing gone we're stuck with more below average passers having to do more


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#246 SMantzas

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:12 PM

fair enough to say he's slightly above average, but he was still a better passer than most of of our guys except Elias and Kovy and you can throw another name in there just for the sake of it. 

 

my point is with that above average passing gone we're stuck with more below average passers having to do more

I think you're short changing Zajac and Loktionov 


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#247 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

pretty much, and no i don't oversimplify things like you seem obsess to tag me with that belief.

 

What we lost with Zach?

 

His forecheck: we're not winning battles as much deep in the zone, especially since we lost zub too.

 

His scoring: Zach was scoring goals that no one else on our team could score, those super quick rush/wraparound like against Philly last year), those goals are important when youre in a tight game.

 

His passing: Zach was making great plays and was working hard to help his linemates and he WAS making his linemates better. Bunch of our guys are struggling now, Zajac would be a lot better with Zach.

 

PK: debatable some say he was not great on the PK for a reason or another, to me a was a beast. Fine we can live without him on the PK but now we have guys like Gionta killing penalties every games.

 

PP: Again Zach was not incredible on the PP but was certainly drawing intention and could help. The problem is again since he's gone our depth is challenge, we saw terrible PK players on our PP many many times.

 

Shootouts: Well i dont really have to explain that one right? Kovy is awesome. Elias it's up in the air is seriously never know with him, Clarkson as one move, Henrique is not as good as we would expect... then what ?

 

So my whole point is... Lou tried to fix the loss of what "Zach was bringing" strictly internally and we don't have the depth to do that.  And it's giving bigger roles to guys who can't fill those shoes.

 

Guys like Zajac, Kovy, Henrique, Elias, Zub, Poni, Clarkson, etc etc already had their roles WITH Zach aboard. You can't say "Travis will cover for Zach on the PP..." he was playing WITH HIM. He was already part of that play.

 

so Lou got us... Kostopoulos, Barch, Butler, burned a ELC year of Matteau who was not really ready and Lokti (like i said somewhere Lokti is fvcking awesome but im pretty damn sure Lou didnt know he could help that much right away, it was a depth move at the time) so those guys are NOT filling the void of what we lost with Zach.

 

Again, you are making the mistake of thinking Lou was looking to replace everything lost with Zach in one offseason (or that he should've been able to), and some of this season.  Like I pointed out, Lou himself pretty much pointed out that such a thing was not going to be possible.  Step 1 was probably hoping the team could pick up some of the slack by committee.  I think other steps will come, but it's not going to be an overnight, quick-fix thing.       

 

Like Tri said somewhere, this team as currently constructed is a low-event, low-scoring kind of team that can win (see Brent Sutter's first season), but has a pretty low margin for error.  Not picking on Hedberg, but it was going to be very hard for the Devils to overcome a goalie putting up an .886 save% in 17 GP, especially one not equipped enough to overcome too many mistakes from anyone.  Hedberg has an .862 save% and 3.36 GAA in his 9 losses (0-6-3).  Bad numbers to be sure, but with some better support he wins two or three of those games (in four of the losses, he allowed 2 goals or less). 

 

The Devils are going to need something more in the .910-.915 range most nights as far as save% goes, and even that is probably a little low, but Brodeur at best is probably a .910 guy at this point in his career.  If the Devils get .905-.912 play the rest of the season from a Brodeur/Hedberg tandem, that's likely the best we should hope for.   


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#248 jagknife

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:15 PM

Our captain also is as useful as pissing into the wind.

 

We're missing a leader who plays with heart. I'm sick of watching this team get pushed around, bad calls being made, and the only person who protests is the offending player or Kovalchuk.

 

I don't remember the game or who got leveled, want to say Carter vs Ottawa, but it happened right in front of Captain Useless and he only reacted after Zids went to defend his teammate.

 

Sure, he's not the ONLY problem, but attitude reflects leadership and currently, our leadership is downright pathetic.


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#249 maniacdevsdude

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

Also, for everyone ragging on Lou, no one knows what he tried to do. Just because nothing happened doesn't mean he didn't look to sign Semin or call 20 GMs seeing if a scorer was available. The Parise signing not happening till July 3rd forced him to miss a few players. You don't badly overpay either to fix an issue. There is enough talent on this team to get a good amount of goals. It's a slump, but this just as easily could have happened with Parise.

 

As for Hedberg, he made a mistake tonight, but  he also made 3 ridiculous saves. He wasn't the reason they lost.

 

Finally, someone with a level head. I can't stand so-called Devils fans who crucify Lou every chance they get. Parise screwed the team and selfishly went to Minnesota and took the money and ran. What did you expect Lou to do? Snap his fingers and have a 30 goal scorer magically appear? I'm sure he did everything in his power to scour the list of available players and called every single team in order to try to work out a deal. How do you know Semin or other top available players weren't part of his offseason agenda? You don't. So please stop bashing him based on conspiracy theories. The fact is the Devils are a top notch organization, have won 3 Stanley Cups with a winning formula, have a very talented roster with great players, and the best GM in the NHL. Period. Anyone who doesn't think so is more than welcome to go root for the other team across the Hudson or for the losers in Long Island. I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms.


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#250 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:26 PM

Again, you are making the mistake of thinking Lou was looking to replace everything lost with Zach in one offseason (or that he should've been able to), and some of this season.  Like I pointed out, Lou himself pretty much pointed out that such a thing was not going to be possible.  Step 1 was probably hoping the team could pick up some of the slack by committee.  I think other steps will come, but it's not going to be an overnight, quick-fix thing.       

 

Like Tri said somewhere, this team as currently constructed is a low-event, low-scoring kind of team that can win (see Brent Sutter's first season), but has a pretty low margin for error.  Not picking on Hedberg, but it was going to be very hard for the Devils to overcome a goalie putting up an .886 save% in 17 GP, especially one not equipped enough to overcome too many mistakes from anyone.  Hedberg has an .862 save% and 3.36 GAA in his 9 losses (0-6-3).  Bad numbers to be sure, but with some better support he wins two or three of those games (in four of the losses, he allowed 2 goals or less). 

 

The Devils are going to need something more in the .910-.915 range most nights as far as save% goes, and even that is probably a little low, but Brodeur at best is probably a .910 guy at this point in his career.  If the Devils get .905-.912 play the rest of the season from a Brodeur/Hedberg tandem, that's likely the best we should hope for.   

 

I believe Butler was also expected to pick up some of the slack. Looking at his AHL and first season in Ottawa numbers and highlights, he should have been good for supplemental scoring. Now, I feel it's an unfair curve to say that Lou messed up on that one, but when he brings in Loki, it was unexpected luck that Loki produced to quickly.

 

As you said, the problem is that when you lose Zach Parise, you can't expect to just go find a 30 goal scorer who can fit into your team just laying around. It's a process, and a slow one. Devils fans have a hard time accepting that every year isn't going to be a cup contending one. The Devils have lost several elite or hall of fame players the last 8 - 10 years, and it's been starting to show for a few years. You don't just replace Stevens, Nieds, Rafalski, Gomez, Parise, etc.

 

I fear for the next Devils starting goalie. He will surely be graded on the Marty curve, and it won't be pretty around here.


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#251 devilsrule33

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

Finally, someone with a level head. I can't stand so-called Devils fans who crucify Lou every chance they get. Parise screwed the team and selfishly went to Minnesota and took the money and ran. What did you expect Lou to do? Snap his fingers and have a 30 goal scorer magically appear? I'm sure he did everything in his power to scour the list of available players and called every single team in order to try to work out a deal. How do you know Semin or other top available players weren't part of his offseason agenda? You don't. So please stop bashing him based on conspiracy theories. The fact is the Devils are a top notch organization, have won 3 Stanley Cups with a winning formula, have a very talented roster with great players, and the best GM in the NHL. Period. Anyone who doesn't think so is more than welcome to go root for the other team across the Hudson or for the losers in Long Island. I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms.

 

I swear I didn't create this account. Well said. Just too much bashing of Lou and Hedberg or anyone else. sh!t happens. There is still a fair amount of race track left. And I think Tri said it, if we miss the playoffs, I'll gladly take the team having the 14th pick. 


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#252 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:48 PM

I believe Butler was also expected to pick up some of the slack. Looking at his AHL and first season in Ottawa numbers and highlights, he should have been good for supplemental scoring. Now, I feel it's an unfair curve to say that Lou messed up on that one, but when he brings in Loki, it was unexpected luck that Loki produced to quickly.

 

As you said, the problem is that when you lose Zach Parise, you can't expect to just go find a 30 goal scorer who can fit into your team just laying around. It's a process, and a slow one. Devils fans have a hard time accepting that every year isn't going to be a cup contending one. The Devils have lost several elite or hall of fame players the last 8 - 10 years, and it's been starting to show for a few years. You don't just replace Stevens, Nieds, Rafalski, Gomez, Parise, etc.

 

I fear for the next Devils starting goalie. He will surely be graded on the Marty curve, and it won't be pretty around here.

 

This.  We've been extremely fortunate to be able to watch some of the best defensemen and goaltenders in NHL history play for this team over the past 20 years.  God help the the guy who replaces Brodeur.

 

Moose wasn't the sole reason we lost last night, but his misplay of the puck on the first goal definitely contributed.  He played well enough, and made some really good saves.  The biggest problem is that there is no organizational depth at forward right now, and it shows with the lack of offense being put up this season.  Losing Parise hurt, and its something you don't overcome right away.  We really are no better than a bubble team right now, and we'll have to win games 2-1 or 3-2 for the rest of the season if we have any hope of getting into the playoffs.


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#253 Triumph

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:52 PM

The Devils next starting goalie will be fine if he is graded on the Brodeur of the last three years and next year curve.


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#254 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

gionta_knob360.gif

 

lol whatever works i guess.


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#255 GoArmySports

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

Does anyone know what song they play when the team comes out for the third period?


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#256 Zubie#8

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:58 PM

gionta_knob360.gif

 

lol whatever works i guess.

He goes 35% on faceoffs but wins that one. :doh1:


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#257 Zubie#8

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

Does anyone know what song they play when the team comes out for the third period?


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#258 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

Again, you are making the mistake of thinking Lou was looking to replace everything lost with Zach in one offseason (or that he should've been able to), and some of this season.  Like I pointed out, Lou himself pretty much pointed out that such a thing was not going to be possible.  Step 1 was probably hoping the team could pick up some of the slack by committee.  I think other steps will come, but it's not going to be an overnight, quick-fix thing.       

 

Like Tri said somewhere, this team as currently constructed is a low-event, low-scoring kind of team that can win (see Brent Sutter's first season), but has a pretty low margin for error.  Not picking on Hedberg, but it was going to be very hard for the Devils to overcome a goalie putting up an .886 save% in 17 GP, especially one not equipped enough to overcome too many mistakes from anyone.  Hedberg has an .862 save% and 3.36 GAA in his 9 losses (0-6-3).  Bad numbers to be sure, but with some better support he wins two or three of those games (in four of the losses, he allowed 2 goals or less). 

 

The Devils are going to need something more in the .910-.915 range most nights as far as save% goes, and even that is probably a little low, but Brodeur at best is probably a .910 guy at this point in his career.  If the Devils get .905-.912 play the rest of the season from a Brodeur/Hedberg tandem, that's likely the best we should hope for.   

 

again it's not about replacing zach, players like that doesnt grow on trees and we dont have the assets to get something like that anyway. 

 

But tell me Lou couldnt find a better players than Gionta, Butler or wtv to fill for him? or fill for the 2nd wave guy who's now on the first wave taking zach spot. Now our 2nd wave or PP and PK is really but really not great, thank the lord Kovy can play the whole 2 min


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#259 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:08 PM

The Devils next starting goalie will be fine if he is graded on the Brodeur of the last three years and next year curve.

 

.906 save% since the '10-'11 season.  He is still a terrific puck-handler, but .906 won't be that hard to replace, for what that number's worth. 



again it's not about replacing zach, players like that doesnt grow on trees and we dont have the assets to get something like that anyway. 

 

But tell me Lou couldnt find a better players than Gionta, Butler or wtv to fill for him? or fill for the 2nd wave guy who's now on the first wave taking zach spot. Now our 2nd wave or PP and PK is really but really not great, thank the lord Kovy can play the whole 2 min

 

Which players?  At what cost?  It's easy to say Lou should've or could've done this or that. 


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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#260 Triumph

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

The guy I killed him for not keeping was Ponikarovsky, who's back anyway.

 

Our 2nd unit PP sucked last year too but let's not let that get in the way of a good narrative.


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