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Goaltending Controversy Avoided and Resolved in the last 13 games


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#1 Mitico12

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

Here I go...

 

Even a healthy Marty / Moose would not typically start 13 games in a row at this stage of their careers, especially after some of the dismal performances Hedberg had in those 13 starts.

 

With that being said, I'm guessing the option of NOT starting either Frazee or Kinkaid in those 13 games was simply a political move to AVOID a goaltending controversy in the event either of the rookies played well enough to put doubt in the mind of the fans and management with regards to Hedberg's future with the club.

 

After all, if either Frazee/Kinkaid played well enough, it would force Lou to either A) carry 3 goalies B) put Moose in a bad spot questioning the team's loyalty to him or C) force Lou demote one of the rookies and create negative vibes even after a positive stretch with the "big club"

 

How the potential controversy has been resolved is simply knowing that Hedberg needs to be replaced next season.  The stretch of 13 games showed his ineffectiveness in long stretches.

 

Agree/Disagree?


Edited by Mitico12, 20 March 2013 - 12:12 PM.

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#2 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:25 PM

I think it was more that everyone involved with the decision thought, right now, Hedberg gave the Devils the best chance to win .  If DeBoer thought Frazee or Kinkaid could do better, he'd likely give one of those a guys a shot.  I don't think DeBoer was necessarily that loyal to Hedberg, or worried about team dynamic or controversy.  I like Moose, and the last two seasons he played pretty well, but it's not like he had such a long track record of success with NJ that anyone should feel bad about going with someone else if so inclined.    


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#3 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

I think it was more that everyone involved with the decision thought, right now, Hedberg gave the Devils the best chance to win .  If DeBoer thought Frazee or Kinkaid could do better, he'd likely give one of those a guys a shot.  I don't think DeBoer was necessarily that loyal to Hedberg, or worried about team dynamic or controversy.  I like Moose, and the last two seasons he played pretty well, but it's not like he had such a long track record of success with NJ that anyone should feel bad about going with someone else if so inclined.    

 

I agree that the team must have reasons for not starting either Kinkaid or Frazee, but I really do feel one or both should have a little NHL experience. Marty and Moose's roads are coming to an end in the next couple of years, and I'd think the Devils would at least want a capable young back up from within the system. If Moose had gotten hurt during that 17 game stretch, the Devils would have had 2 goalies with zero NHL games between them. My guess is Lou signs a veteran backup in the offseason for Albany and lets Frazee go, or signs one for the NHL and buys out Moose. Just guesses, of course. They will also need to work Wedgewood into Albany eventually.


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#4 Mitico12

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:39 PM

I can't really agree that Moose would have given the team the "best chance to win," especially after the drubbings we received against Winnipeg (for example) or Tampa.

 

I couldn't see the harm in putting Frazee or Kinkaid in net right after those games to help give a "fresh look" to our goaltending and perhaps spark something...


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#5 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

i think its fair to say the organization doesnt trust Frazee on the NHL team, seems like he's been there fooorever, if they would have trusted him they would have at least gave him the backup job at some point.

 

and the other kids are too young and need more pro experience.


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#6 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 12:57 PM

I was very comfortable with Kinkaid, I'm timid with Moose now.


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#7 Mitico12

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:02 PM

i think its fair to say the organization doesnt trust Frazee on the NHL team, seems like he's been there fooorever, if they would have trusted him they would have at least gave him the backup job at some point.

 

and the other kids are too young and need more pro experience.

Being "too young" isn't exactly a plausible excuse for not starting a young goalie.  I think Cam Ward would disagree with you on that one.


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#8 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:11 PM

Being "too young" isn't exactly a plausible excuse for not starting a young goalie.  I think Cam Ward would disagree with you on that one.

 

goalies are hard to gauge, i could use the Tim Thomas example to disagree again but thats not the point.


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#9 coldply123

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:29 PM

How can anyone say they would be comfortable with Kinkaid when he played one period?

Hedberg is not any good for the situation we have with our goalies now, but Im not sure how we manage our way out of it until the offseason.
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#10 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

I can't really agree that Moose would have given the team the "best chance to win," especially after the drubbings we received against Winnipeg (for example) or Tampa.

 

I couldn't see the harm in putting Frazee or Kinkaid in net right after those games to help give a "fresh look" to our goaltending and perhaps spark something...

 

Clearly DeBoer felt differently, because even when Moose had tough games, he kept going back to him.  He sees Kinkaid and Frazee in practice, which we don't.  I'm guessing he didn't feel confident about giving either one a start. 

 

It's like the backup QB in football at times...because he's a great unknown that can represent anything the fans hope, everyone wants to see him play when the starter is struggling...until they see him actually play and he struggles even more than the guy he replaced.

 

I have no idea what Kinkaid or Frazee can or can't do at the NHL level, but I know there has to be some reason why DeBoer didn't like the idea of either one getting a shot.  I'm guessing it was something as simple as DeBoer thinking neither one was ready for an NHL start. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#11 NJDevs4978

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:03 PM

I can't really agree that Moose would have given the team the "best chance to win," especially after the drubbings we received against Winnipeg (for example) or Tampa.

I couldn't see the harm in putting Frazee or Kinkaid in net right after those games to help give a "fresh look" to our goaltending and perhaps spark something...


Problem with that is right when the cries for change were at their loudest, Moose started playing better.

Funny, I thought this was going to be about the 'other' goaltending contreversy that was avoided after this run, the 'Let's platoon Marty and Moose!' one after his first couple starts this year.
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#12 coldply123

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

I realize this may be sacrilegious to some since DeBoer was coach in leading us to a SC final, but one thing I have to get off my chest is that the the guy is not Christ and is subject to making poor judgement calls or decisions and he can be criticized. This is primarily directed towards the rose colored glasses crowd that believes benefit of doubt was in the Bill of Rights or something.

Yes, we do not know if Frazee or Kinkaid would have been better because they were not put in. They could have been worse too I admit. But Deboer seemed to cave to using Hedberg repeatedly solely because he is a veteran and because he feared other vets would be upset.
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#13 devilsrule33

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

I realize this may be sacrilegious to some since DeBoer was coach in leading us to a SC final, but one thing I have to get off my chest is that the the guy is not Christ and is subject to making poor judgement calls or decisions and he can be criticized. This is primarily directed towards the rose colored glasses crowd that believes benefit of doubt was in the Bill of Rights or something.

Yes, we do not know if Frazee or Kinkaid would have been better because they were not put in. They could have been worse too I admit. But Deboer seemed to cave to using Hedberg repeatedly solely because he is a veteran and because he feared other vets would be upset.

 

Sorry coldply, but I don't buy that. No one has to think Pete is a perfect, and he certainly isn't. But to just assume he played Hedberg because he feared other vets would be upset is baseless. Hedberg started 13 games in a row, so I don't think anyone could be upset, including him, if he didn't start all of them.

 

Lou was interviewed the other day, and he even said the plan was to stick with Hedberg, and no real thought was given to starting the kids. Is it right or wrong? Not sure. But Hedberg responsed in the games where people wanted a different goalie to start. So there is that. In such a short season, it is tough to go with goalies that have never started an NHL game before, especially in a middle of a slide. You know what Hedberg is capable. You don't with the others.

 

That wasn;t about handling egos and friendships. 


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#14 Mitico12

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 02:41 PM

Dudes, it was to AVOID a "Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow-esque" controversy in NJ.

 

Because, it WOULD NOT hurt the Devs to give Frazee/Kinkaid a start.  Not at all.  Anyone who suggests otherwise is obviously new to the sports world.

 

The element of "what if" either of the two - Frazee or Kinkaid comes up with a few "gem" performances, what happens then? The crowd starts to chant for Moose to retire?  Or, when Marty comes back, and maybe doesn't play so well, the crowd starts to chant for "Marty to retire" and for us to put the rookie in?

 

Lou nipped it in the bud.  As long as Moose starts each game, there is NO controversy to be had. 

 

What backfired though, however, is that we had some games we could have won if we had a goalie who made saves when necessary.


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#15 NJDevs4978

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:13 PM

Comparing Marty to Mark Sanchez is lunacy, not to mention thinking 'any' NJ backup goalie is going to come with the NATIONWIDE popularity Tebow came with.

 

They may have wanted to avoid a contreversy simply because they didn't want to be forced to buy Moose out at the end of the year.  Perhaps because they didn't want to upset the room, where Moose is a popular leader.  Or because (lord have mercy!) they thought Moose was the best option come hell or high water.  Most likely it was some combination of the three.

 

Where they goofed is not telling Moose to stop playing the puck and trying to do things he cannot do.


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#16 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

Dudes, it was to AVOID a "Mark Sanchez/Tim Tebow-esque" controversy in NJ.

 

Because, it WOULD NOT hurt the Devs to give Frazee/Kinkaid a start.  Not at all.  Anyone who suggests otherwise is obviously new to the sports world.

 

The element of "what if" either of the two - Frazee or Kinkaid comes up with a few "gem" performances, what happens then? The crowd starts to chant for Moose to retire?  Or, when Marty comes back, and maybe doesn't play so well, the crowd starts to chant for "Marty to retire" and for us to put the rookie in?

 

Lou nipped it in the bud.  As long as Moose starts each game, there is NO controversy to be had. 

 

What backfired though, however, is that we had some games we could have won if we had a goalie who made saves when necessary.

 

On the flip side, what if Kinkaid comes in and gets smoked for 6 goals? A lot of goaltending is really in the mind. That's why guys will have nights where the puck "looks like a beach ball" and nights where they can't stop anything. They may not want to risk the team coming out flat and messing a kid up. There are probably some variables that we don't know about involved.


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#17 coldply123

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Hedberg is only really on the team still because of his popularity with other players and because he is not a threat to Brodeur who has way too much pull with Lou and histhe playing timein these days still. Also, Kovy loves him and the Devils brought Hedberg in to entice Kovy to stay and to keep Kovy happy.

DeBoer was also maligned in Florida for his handling of similar situations. One of the reasons he got fired.

But this type of situation does happen I fully admit on a lot of teams, but one should not be surprised about the crappy outcome one bit here.
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#18 SterioDesign

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

No one knows exactly what happened behind close doors... But to give the start without even thinking of not giving him to a goaler who allowed 4+ goals in 5 out of 9 games... And 3 and 2 goals the other 4 games....

I mean no one in his right mind would do that, debo had his hands tied somehow its pretty clear
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#19 Marshall

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

Not so sure about all this "his hands were tied"-stuff. This is the same coach who has benched Fayne for a good chunk of the season.


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#20 ATLL765

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

Lou and PDB don't care about feelings. Look at how Pando got told to screw after he started sucking, yeah we bought him out to be nice, but still. Team is about winning, if the org thought Frazee or Kinkaid would give the team an edge, they'd have played one of them.


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