Jump to content

Photo

Devils trade for Matt D'Agostini (STL)


  • Please log in to reply
132 replies to this topic

#81 EdgeControl

EdgeControl

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,417 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

a kid from Sault Ste Marie with an italian sounding last name!   how bad can he be        Im drinking it Lou :koolaid:


Edited by EdgeControl, 22 March 2013 - 01:18 PM.

  • 0

#82 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,252 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

@TGfireandice
Lamoriello said he sees D'Agostini as a 2nd or 3rd line RW, adds to forward depth.

 

Hopefully it lights a fire under Clarksons butt.

 

Honestly even with the huge slow down in his goal scoring he has still exceeded my expectations for him for this season.


  • 0

#83 Zubie#8

Zubie#8

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,580 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:17 PM

Honestly even with the huge slow down in his goal scoring he has still exceeded my expectations for him for this season.

But 1 goal in the last 16-18 games has to change.


Edited by Zubie#8, 22 March 2013 - 01:19 PM.

  • 0

believe-zubrus.jpg

 


#84 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,252 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:21 PM

But 1 goal in the last 16-18 games has to change.

 

Eh true, but he was kinda streaky last year too with his goals.  I just hope he starts a new streak right when the playoffs start lol.


  • 0

#85 ATLL765

ATLL765

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,340 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:23 PM

Eh true, but he was kinda streaky last year too with his goals.  I just hope he starts a new streak right when the playoffs start lol.

I never expected Clarkson to be a 30 goal scorer going forward. I figured, if he could score 15 this year, I'd be more than happy. He's pretty close and that's fine. the drought is not good, but if this were a full season, it'd be very likely that he puts up 20+ goals, which, again, is just fine for Clarky.


  • 0

#86 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,900 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

I would assume one of the conditions is whether or not the Devils re-sign him this off season...

 

Yeah, TG reported that if the Devils re-sign him, St. Louis gets a 4th round pick in 2015.  Otherwise, STL gets a 5th round pick and NJ gets a 7th (also in 2015).

 

I'm not even going to mention the possibility that he is qualified because unless he really, really plays well I can't see that.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#87 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,429 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:27 PM

Okay, cool.  (And he is being given credit for a lot of misses)  Do you think he can sustain anything like this rate going forward?  Because I don't.  And I don't think he's playing particularly well otherwise.

 

This rate, as in being a 30 goal scorer?     I didn't before this season started.    His positioning in the offensive zone around the net has been great.  It's been his hands that have betrayed him a little, but even that is better than last year.    Now, yeah, I think he could be a 25-30 guy.


  • 0

#88 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,900 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:43 PM

This rate, as in being a 30 goal scorer?     I didn't before this season started.    His positioning in the offensive zone around the net has been great.  It's been his hands that have betrayed him a little, but even that is better than last year.    Now, yeah, I think he could be a 25-30 guy.

 

He's getting the benefit of the bounces.  I don't see how this can be regarded as anything but a fluke.  Even with missed shots (and with 3 games missing from the data set *gnashes teeth at BTN*), Henrique's 5 on 5 shooting rate is 1.7 shots per game.  Carter's is higher, Bernier, Ponikarovsky, and Zidlicky's are similar, Kovalchuk, Elias, and Clarkson are all well ahead.  Henrique has good instincts in front of the net but all this is showing is a talent to get the bounces - he has to generate more shots to be truly effective.  You seldom score 25 goals on 150 shots without large helpings of luck.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#89 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,131 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:04 PM

He's getting the benefit of the bounces.  I don't see how this can be regarded as anything but a fluke.  Even with missed shots (and with 3 games missing from the data set *gnashes teeth at BTN*), Henrique's 5 on 5 shooting rate is 1.7 shots per game.  Carter's is higher, Bernier, Ponikarovsky, and Zidlicky's are similar, Kovalchuk, Elias, and Clarkson are all well ahead.  Henrique has good instincts in front of the net but all this is showing is a talent to get the bounces - he has to generate more shots to be truly effective.  You seldom score 25 goals on 150 shots without large helpings of luck.

 

Life per Triumph

 

1- use numbers to try to backup a point or a prediction

 

2- when it fails, blame luck


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#90 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,429 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

He's getting the benefit of the bounces.  I don't see how this can be regarded as anything but a fluke.  Even with missed shots (and with 3 games missing from the data set *gnashes teeth at BTN*), Henrique's 5 on 5 shooting rate is 1.7 shots per game.  Carter's is higher, Bernier, Ponikarovsky, and Zidlicky's are similar, Kovalchuk, Elias, and Clarkson are all well ahead.  Henrique has good instincts in front of the net but all this is showing is a talent to get the bounces - he has to generate more shots to be truly effective.  You seldom score 25 goals on 150 shots without large helpings of luck.

 

The shots have to come up a little, but if he gets stopped, they do come up a little.   That's the life of a garbageman, goalie kicks out his pad to stop your shot, instead of getting 1 goal on 1 shot, you get 0 goals on 2 or 3 shots slamming it into his pads.    He's still 23, we'll see what happens next season.   But I like what I see from him scoring-wise.    And let's be honest, on this team if you sit around waiting for someone to get you a goal, it ain't happening unless you play with Patty.


  • 0

#91 TheMazz

TheMazz

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,346 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:07 PM

Let's not overlook the Ontario connection with this move. OHL veteran coach Pete Deboer had breakout years from Calder nominee Henrique and undrafted Clarkson and added Barch, Kostopoulos and now D'Agostini... ALL Ontario boys.

 

Now let's ask ourselves...what potential six forward has that same connection?


  • 0

n2eg.jpg


#92 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,900 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:13 PM

Life per Triumph

 

1- use numbers to try to backup a point or a prediction

 

2- when it fails, blame luck

 

This adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  (and neither does my pointing it out, but you do this a lot and it's annoying)

 

The shots have to come up a little, but if he gets stopped, they do come up a little.   That's the life of a garbageman, goalie kicks out his pad to stop your shot, instead of getting 1 goal on 1 shot, you get 0 goals on 2 or 3 shots slamming it into his pads.    He's still 23, we'll see what happens next season.   But I like what I see from him scoring-wise.    And let's be honest, on this team if you sit around waiting for someone to get you a goal, it ain't happening unless you play with Patty.

 

Not really buying this explanation - plus Henrique is a center, how many garbageman centers can you think of?  I agree if he's moved out to wing he should end up with more shots and more goals, but predicting anything based of this 'garbageman' persona you've constructed for him over X number of games - it doesn't seem likely.  


  • 2

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#93 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,321 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:14 PM

The shots have to come up a little, but if he gets stopped, they do come up a little.   That's the life of a garbageman, goalie kicks out his pad to stop your shot, instead of getting 1 goal on 1 shot, you get 0 goals on 2 or 3 shots slamming it into his pads.    He's still 23, we'll see what happens next season.   But I like what I see from him scoring-wise.    And let's be honest, on this team if you sit around waiting for someone to get you a goal, it ain't happening unless you play with Patty.

 

very very rarely do you get those 2 shots whacks counted properly and you NEVER get it in NJ.


  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#94 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,518 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

What was Henrique's shot rate last season?  

 

I see Henrique of the last few games as starting to get his feet under himself, he's been pretty underwhelming for most of this season compared to last, until recently.  Now I see him creating plays and offense again...while also missing at least one great pass fed to him in the slot a game, but he'll start to corral and shoot those, which will him out as well.

 

I do think Henrique's raw numbers this season are above what his on ice play has been but I think his on ice play has improved from season's start so he can continue putting up decent numbers.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#95 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,131 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:21 PM

This adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  (and neither does my pointing it out, but you do this a lot and it's annoying)

 

well i also think youre really annoying always throwing numbers around as if it really means everything. I have to deal with it so deal with me pointing it out. Peaceful world.

 

if henrique is passing the puck first usually and goes to the net to score and often score on rebounds or just pushing the puck in the net and let's say thats a big part of his game and that he's scoring a lot of those, who cares if he's not shooting 75 shots in a game right in the goalies chest to equalize the normality? 

 

hockey is way too random to put numbers and probabilities on players. a guy can score deflecting a puck with his face in the net with his face or he can try to pass but it hit a dman's skate and goes in or shooting way wide miss his shot but hit something and it goes in. Shots % is bullsh!t


Edited by SterioDesign, 22 March 2013 - 02:26 PM.

  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#96 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,429 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

This adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  (and neither does my pointing it out, but you do this a lot and it's annoying)

 

 

Not really buying this explanation - plus Henrique is a center, how many garbageman centers can you think of?  I agree if he's moved out to wing he should end up with more shots and more goals, but predicting anything based of this 'garbageman' persona you've constructed for him over X number of games - it doesn't seem likely.  

 

I don't think he's a center.    He's a C by the Devils definition of C, in that he's a guy with a pulse that has played the position at some point.

 

So yeah, that's going to play a part in what I think of him.    A garbageman C is a gigantic minus waiting to happen, that's why you don't see them. 

I admit I might be trying to force feed him as a B-B+ team Parise, but that's what I see in his game.


  • 0

#97 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,900 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:25 PM

What was Henrique's shot rate last season?  

 

I see Henrique of the last few games as starting to get his feet under himself, he's been pretty underwhelming for most of this season compared to last, until recently.  Now I see him creating plays and offense again...while also missing at least one great pass fed to him in the slot a game, but he'll start to corral and shoot those, which will him out as well.

 

I do think Henrique's raw numbers this season are above what his on ice play has been but I think his on ice play has improved from season's start so he can continue putting up decent numbers.

 

1.76 S/G last year, 1.77 S/G this year, same amount of ice time.  The thing I'm seeing is that the assists have disappeared, which was unfortunately to be expected (a bit).  And I agree he's starting to look better, but I'm still not sold on him as a point producer long-term.  Which is fine - with Loktionov in the fold.

 

well i also think youre really annoying always throwing numbers around as if it really means everything. I have to deal with it so deal with me pointing it out. Peaceful world.

 

We are talking about how many goals a particular player can score.  Numbers are everything in this discussion - goals are built out of shots.  100% of the shots you don't take don't go in.  I have not referenced anything else.  You can wave your hands around and talk about how many goals a player can score, or you can look at the numbers of Henrique and the players who've come before him and come up with a likely guess.


Edited by Triumph, 22 March 2013 - 02:27 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#98 GoArmySports

GoArmySports

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,159 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:27 PM

It seems to be Lou is picking up guys Deboer use to coach back in his Junior days.


  • 0

#99 ATLL765

ATLL765

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,340 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:29 PM

This adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.  (and neither does my pointing it out, but you do this a lot and it's annoying)

 

 

Not really buying this explanation - plus Henrique is a center, how many garbageman centers can you think of?  I agree if he's moved out to wing he should end up with more shots and more goals, but predicting anything based of this 'garbageman' persona you've constructed for him over X number of games - it doesn't seem likely.  

I assume none of this could be attributed to his injury or anything. I doubt a hand injury could affect shot counts or anything....


  • 0

#100 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,518 posts

Posted 22 March 2013 - 02:37 PM

well i also think youre really annoying always throwing numbers around as if it really means everything. I have to deal with it so deal with me pointing it out. Peaceful world.

 

if henrique is passing the puck first usually and goes to the net to score and often score on rebounds or just pushing the puck in the net and let's say thats a big part of his game and that he's scoring a lot of those, who cares if he's not shooting 75 shots in a game right in the goalies chest to equalize the normality? 

 

hockey is way too random to put numbers and probabilities on players. a guy can score deflecting a puck with his face in the net with his face or he can try to pass but it hit a dman's skate and goes in or shooting way wide miss his shot but hit something and it goes in. Shots % is bullsh!t

 

You sound like the people touting Petr Prucha after his rookie season or Aaron Voros during his early season surge, they too said shooting % was meaningless, even though it's plainly obvious that almost the whole league ends up in a pretty small range over the long run.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users