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#581 devlman

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:22 AM

Take that over Dallas or Florida, I believe you and understand you. Im just saying I believe the fact they actually have a pretty good fan base is why they are still their instead of being "relocated" like Atlanta. Their able to stand on their own. And right now Columbus has a pretty great team I hope every thing great for them.


CBJ has an awful fan base and consistently rank amongst the worst in attendance. Dallas and florida have outdrawn them for years now. If they were southern, people would be screaming for them to be moved. Maybe Gaborik helps this seasons positive momentum going. They didn't give up much and if he can get going again away from torts then they've got one of the leagues best fwds.
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#582 BigZ

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:43 AM

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Ben Bishop has been told he's been traded from OTT to TB. #tradecentre

Disappointed.
I thought the Devils would make a move for Bishop.
This team realizes they're going to be a disaster in net next year right?
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#583 nessus

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:49 AM

Wow, wish we could have picked up Forsberg from Washington. It's in the past now so not really worth worrying about, but I really wonder if we cold have pulled that trade off.


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#584 BigZ

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 01:52 AM

This team got lucky with Loktionov ..everyone else they've acquired is a scrub.
Very disappointed.
Seems like they've given up.
Flyers, Caps, Isles, Rangers are just too much right now.
The Devils have been awful for the past 2 months and are lucky to be where they are.
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I miss Parise. 


#585 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:39 AM

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Ben Bishop has been told he's been traded from OTT to TB. #tradecentre

Disappointed.
I thought the Devils would make a move for Bishop.
This team realizes they're going to be a disaster in net next year right?

 

You don't know that yet.  Why not wait until next season before making that "disaster" declaration?  I'm guessing at the very least, Hedberg will not be back. 

 

Brodeur is obviously a much trickier situation.  It's been mentioned on multiple threads, but the save%s since 2010-11 have not been good.  He did play well in last year's playoff run overall.  What it makes it all tricky is his situation is a little bit like Messier's with the Rangers, at the end.  No, Brodeur is probably not what he was.  He is probably going to be roughly the same player he's been since 2010, which has been inconsistent...there's clearly been times he's looked like the old Brodeur, and other times he's just looked old.  He'll be 41 years old to start next season.  At the very best, I would expect more of what he's been since 2010, as I don't know how I can realistically expect better than that, given the age and miles, and the fact that he's basically been this version of Marty for a while now. 

 

As we all know, he's under contract for next season, and as a result, really has the power here.  As long as he's healthy in 2013-14, I don't think he's going to pressure the Devils to start him in a ridiculous number of games, but I don't think he'll settle for starting less than 50 as long as he's feeling good.  And that, in ways, is where his situation reminds me of Messier's a little.  He's a longtime star.  He's been a winner with this organization, and a huge part of its success.  Part of what makes guys like Marty what he is is that he doesn't quit on himself and still thinks he can contribute...it's a big part of the reason he was able to salvage the past few seasons, where at times it looked like he could finish with flat-out embarrassing numbers, but fought back to make them at least not painful on the eyes.  But guys like him are proud, usually so much so that they don't really see themselves as what they are, but what they were. 

 

Anyway, where I am going with all of this...I don't think the Devils dare try to push him into retirement, or into a backup/1B role...Marty is holding the cards on this one, and though I'm not even going to try to get inside his head, it wouldn't surprise if a part of him felt he was entitled to that, after everything he's done for them, from being one of the best goalies ever to play the game, to almost always taking less than market value, and making negotitations for he and Lou almost painless as a result.  And even if Marty finishes this season with a sub-.900 save% and the bottom falls out, I think he STILL goes into next season as the #1 guy, because I don't think anyone in the organization mentions the "R" word (retirement) or "B" word (backup) unless Marty does first.  At any rate, it's a delicate situation.  I have no idea how I would handle it if I was Lou. 

 

Next season could get really dicey if Marty slumps, and the backup gets hot or simply outplays him.  I'd really hate to see him go out that way. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 04 April 2013 - 06:42 AM.

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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
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It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#586 maniacdevsdude

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:44 AM

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Ben Bishop has been told he's been traded from OTT to TB. #tradecentre
Disappointed.
I thought the Devils would make a move for Bishop.
This team realizes they're going to be a disaster in net next year right?


Hmmm...assuming Marty is still here why would we be a disaster in net? And even if he isn't, I seriously doubt Moose would play terribly all season.If Lou isn't panicking I don't think we should be standing near high ledges either. Just saying...

As for his picks being scrubs, I wouldn't necessarily call Lokti, Dag, and Sully scrubs.
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#587 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 07:03 AM

Hmmm...assuming Marty is still here why would we be a disaster in net? And even if he isn't, I seriously doubt Moose would play terribly all season.If Lou isn't panicking I don't think we should be standing near high ledges either. Just saying...

As for his picks being scrubs, I wouldn't necessarily call Lokti, Dag, and Sully scrubs.

 

Marty is currently 29th in save%, and Hedberg is 42nd.  The fact is the overall play the Devils have gotten in net hasn't been good.  I think we'd all like to believe that Marty will be OK next season, for obvious reasons (mostly because most Devils fans love the guy and want to see him go out as strongly as possible), but there's just no way to tell.  There is definitely the potential for the Devils' goaltending situation to blow up next season, especially since I had forgotten that Hedberg is signed for this season AND next.  I just don't know how much confidence one can realistically have in a 41-year-old and a 40-year-old who are clearly not what they were.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#588 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:46 AM

This team got lucky with Loktionov ..everyone else they've acquired is a scrub.
Very disappointed.
Seems like they've given up.
Flyers, Caps, Isles, Rangers are just too much right now.
The Devils have been awful for the past 2 months and are lucky to be where they are.

 

This mentality...  "good move is 'luck'. Everything else sucks. Lou didn't do anything."

 

Lou acquired : Loktionov, D'Agostini, Ponikarovsky, and Sullivan

 

Lou gave up : a 4th rounder, two 5th's, and two 7th's.

 

Not a terrible return at all. And he didn't overpay for a rental star. 

 

Marty is currently 29th in save%, and Hedberg is 42nd.  The fact is the overall play the Devils have gotten in net hasn't been good.  I think we'd all like to believe that Marty will be OK next season, for obvious reasons (mostly because most Devils fans love the guy and want to see him go out as strongly as possible), but there's just no way to tell.  There is definitely the potential for the Devils' goaltending situation to blow up next season, especially since I had forgotten that Hedberg is signed for this season AND next.  I just don't know how much confidence one can realistically have in a 41-year-old and a 40-year-old who are clearly not what they were.   

 

Not much confidence is the answer. 

 

But the 'just get Bishop' plan doesn't solve anything. As you said, we have 2 goalies under contract with NTC's. Unless Lou amnesties Moose, we have another year of this. Getting Bishop or Bernier just adds another NHLer to the mix. My hope is that Kinkaid or maybe Frazee gets some NHL work next season. Wedge needs at least one AHL year. They can't run with a 42 year old Marty starting 70 games in 2014-15. Lou knows this, and something will happen. Lou knows when it's time. We saw it with White, Langenbrunner, etc. He'll pull the plug when its most advantageous to him and the team.  (i'm referring to pulling it on Moose, not Marty. Marty clearly will make his own decision unless it gets .850 ridiculous.)


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#589 capo

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:53 AM

Save percentage is very overrated and the Devils don't have a plan to replace him.  Now, if there was a statistic to measure shot quality then that would be another story. (deflections, screen shots, 2-1, breakaways, etc.)  Marty has been very serviceable most of the time.  His ability to play the puck still puts him ahead of any other option. (you would think young kids would want to develope this trait)  Lou never had a post-Marty plan and so this is what we get.  The Devils just don't have the chips to trade for anyone.  The way Bernier has played this year it would take half of Albany to get him. (the good half) 


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#590 Daniel

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:13 AM

Save percentage is very overrated and the Devils don't have a plan to replace him.  Now, if there was a statistic to measure shot quality then that would be another story. (deflections, screen shots, 2-1, breakaways, etc.)  Marty has been very serviceable most of the time.  His ability to play the puck still puts him ahead of any other option. (you would think young kids would want to develope this trait)  Lou never had a post-Marty plan and so this is what we get.  The Devils just don't have the chips to trade for anyone.  The way Bernier has played this year it would take half of Albany to get him. (the good half) 

 

The Devils have a lot of chips.  You probably could have gotten Bishop for Merrill plus something the Devils could live without, and probably the same for Bernier.  Larsson would have gotten either of those guys, plus something more.  Right now, coming off the type of year he had, Boucher would have very high trade value for a guy that was selected in the fourth round.  Severson and Matteau too. 

 

In fact, based on the Lou-speak since the deadline, it appears that the Devils did look into making a more significant deal, but didn't want to give up on those players, or anymore draft picks. 

 

If the Devils really crapped the bed for the rest of the year, and somehow was in a position to draft Seth Jones, there's more than a pie-in-the-skey potential that the Devils would look at having the best bluelines in hockey in two to three years, and perhaps a generational one at that.  Yes, a lot would have to go right, but 90 percent of teams can't even say that.


Edited by Daniel, 04 April 2013 - 09:14 AM.

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#591 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

This mentality...  "good move is 'luck'. Everything else sucks. Lou didn't do anything."

 

Lou acquired : Loktionov, D'Agostini, Ponikarovsky, and Sullivan

 

Lou gave up : a 4th rounder, two 5th's, and two 7th's.

 

Not a terrible return at all. And he didn't overpay for a rental star. 

 

 

Not much confidence is the answer. 

 

But the 'just get Bishop' plan doesn't solve anything. As you said, we have 2 goalies under contract with NTC's. Unless Lou amnesties Moose, we have another year of this. Getting Bishop or Bernier just adds another NHLer to the mix. My hope is that Kinkaid or maybe Frazee gets some NHL work next season. Wedge needs at least one AHL year. They can't run with a 42 year old Marty starting 70 games in 2014-15. Lou knows this, and something will happen. Lou knows when it's time. We saw it with White, Langenbrunner, etc. He'll pull the plug when its most advantageous to him and the team.  (i'm referring to pulling it on Moose, not Marty. Marty clearly will make his own decision unless it gets .850 ridiculous.)

 

On the deals, I agree.  This team hasn't felt like it was one player away, so I'm glad Lou didn't take a home run swing.  He tried to fill needs where he could without giving up too much.  Kovy getting hurt clearly threw a wrench into everything.

 

Yeah, hoping Lou amnesties Moose, just because.  And yeah, even if Marty is in the .880s thru December next season, he won't give up...like you said, it's going to have to get embarassing for him to call it quits.  He recent history suggests that he can find his way into the .900s after slow starts...I wouldn't expect him to feel differently unless he's in the .880-.890 range thru, say, late January. 

 

capo, .9055 is barely serviceable.  Even if you think save% is overrated, all you have to do is compare his current one to his career and recent save%s.  It's lower.  Probably not going to go up much from where it currently is.  That being said, like I've said, I don't expect him to retire in the offseason, so now it's about trying to minimize Marty's importance to the team's success for next season, and trying to find a way to make his victory lap as painless and positive for everyone as possible.  For me, that starts with a 1B goalie who's younger and better than Hedberg...he doesn't necessarily have to represent the future for the Devils, but if he can provide good enough goaltending to challenge this version of Brodeur and provide competent goaltending should Marty either get hurt or falter, that'd be enough for me.   


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#592 NJDevs4978

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

Why do people keep saying 'Lou doesn't have a post-Marty plan?' Just because the kids aren't playing right now, doesn't mean they won't in the future, or that Lou didn't use significant draft picks trying to fill the position.

People confuse not having a plan with having a 39-year old backup. Moose was the best 'win-now' option out there this offseason as a backup. Doesn't mean two-three years from now wasn't addressed.
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#593 maniacdevsdude

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

This mentality...  "good move is 'luck'. Everything else sucks. Lou didn't do anything."
 
Lou acquired : Loktionov, D'Agostini, Ponikarovsky, and Sullivan
 
Lou gave up : a 4th rounder, two 5th's, and two 7th's.
 
Not a terrible return at all. And he didn't overpay for a rental star. 
 

 
Not much confidence is the answer. 
 
But the 'just get Bishop' plan doesn't solve anything. As you said, we have 2 goalies under contract with NTC's. Unless Lou amnesties Moose, we have another year of this. Getting Bishop or Bernier just adds another NHLer to the mix. My hope is that Kinkaid or maybe Frazee gets some NHL work next season. Wedge needs at least one AHL year. They can't run with a 42 year old Marty starting 70 games in 2014-15. Lou knows this, and something will happen. Lou knows when it's time. We saw it with White, Langenbrunner, etc. He'll pull the plug when its most advantageous to him and the team.  (i'm referring to pulling it on Moose, not Marty. Marty clearly will make his own decision unless it gets .850 ridiculous.)


I too would like to see Frazee and/or Kinkaid being given more chances next season. Who's to say one of them couldn't step up and become our future netminder? If they're given time it could work out...

Trust in Lou.
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#594 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:40 AM

Let's face it, Marty's contract was a bit of a lifetime achievement deal and a thank you, especially that second year.  I'm sure Lou knew it was a risk. 

 

Hedberg getting two years kind of tells me Lou didn't think the kids would be really be ready to hit the ground running until 2014-15.  But if one of the youngins proved otherwise, I'm guessing he'd find a way to get him in here earlier, especially if Hedberg is having a rough time next season.  I do think if Hedberg feels he doesn't have it anymore, he won't fight it...he'll make that part of it easy for Lou. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#595 95Crash

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:40 AM

I know it's just one game since, but damn, the Rangers did good.


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#596 ATLL765

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:42 AM

The Devils have a lot of chips.  You probably could have gotten Bishop for Merrill plus something the Devils could live without, and probably the same for Bernier.  Larsson would have gotten either of those guys, plus something more.  Right now, coming off the type of year he had, Boucher would have very high trade value for a guy that was selected in the fourth round.  Severson and Matteau too. 

 

In fact, based on the Lou-speak since the deadline, it appears that the Devils did look into making a more significant deal, but didn't want to give up on those players, or anymore draft picks. 

 

If the Devils really crapped the bed for the rest of the year, and somehow was in a position to draft Seth Jones, there's more than a pie-in-the-skey potential that the Devils would look at having the best bluelines in hockey in two to three years, and perhaps a generational one at that.  Yes, a lot would have to go right, but 90 percent of teams can't even say that.

If half our D prospects work out, we'll half an awesome blueline in about 4 years. It kills me that we don't get to see Urbom and Gelinas get a crack at the NHL. I know it would have been tough this year with the shortened schedule, but still, if not now, when?


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#597 SMantzas

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:45 AM

Let's face it, Marty's contract was a bit of a lifetime achievement deal and a thank you, especially that second year.  I'm sure Lou knew it was a risk. 

 

Hedberg getting two years kind of tells me Lou didn't think the kids would be really be ready to hit the ground running until 2014-15.  But if one of the youngins proved otherwise, I'm guessing he'd find a way to get him in here earlier, especially if Hedberg is having a rough time next season.  I do think if Hedberg feels he doesn't have it anymore, he won't fight it...he'll make that part of it easy for Lou. 

But are they ready though? Neither Wedgewood, Kinkaid or Frazee are playing lights out with a good D in front of them in Albany. Granted, they have Jay Leach (aka the Salvador effect) but its not like there is a Lehner or Markstrom guy. If we had this D, with 1995-2009 Marty, we'd be true contenders


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#598 NJDevs4978

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

Let's face it, Marty's contract was a bit of a lifetime achievement deal and a thank you, especially that second year. I'm sure Lou knew it was a risk.

Hedberg getting two years kind of tells me Lou didn't think the kids would be really be ready to hit the ground running until 2014-15. But if one of the youngins proved otherwise, I'm guessing he'd find a way to get him in here earlier, especially if Hedberg is having a rough time next season. I do think if Hedberg feels he doesn't have it anymore, he won't fight it...he'll make that part of it easy for Lou.


It also was because 'both' goalies got two-year offers elsewhere in FA and Lou had to match. Marty wanted lockout protection and Moose wanted the extra year to relocate his family. Other teams were willing to give it to them.

If Lou didn't, the goalie FA market was BAD last year. Montoya, Chris Mason and Gustavsson were the top goalies period that moved in FA. Bobrovsky wasn't available to 'us' in trade and they would have had to pay a pretty penny to trade for other unproven guys like Lindback.

I don't really see anything else Lou 'could' have done this offseason. Especially given how well both played last year.
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-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
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#599 Triumph

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:09 AM

But are they ready though? Neither Wedgewood, Kinkaid or Frazee are playing lights out with a good D in front of them in Albany. Granted, they have Jay Leach (aka the Salvador effect) but its not like there is a Lehner or Markstrom guy. If we had this D, with 1995-2009 Marty, we'd be true contenders

 

They're not.  Although maybe one of them is ready to be 'the next Marty' where Marty is the guy we've seen from October 2010 until now.

 

78:  Lou could have done anything else.  I see why he went with Hedberg, but it's a gamble that is 'paying off' by costing us a playoff spot.  I'm not convinced this will be rectified next year either.


Edited by Triumph, 04 April 2013 - 10:11 AM.

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#600 Chuck the Duck

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:09 AM

But are they ready though? Neither Wedgewood, Kinkaid or Frazee are playing lights out with a good D in front of them in Albany. Granted, they have Jay Leach (aka the Salvador effect) but its not like there is a Lehner or Markstrom guy. If we had this D, with 1995-2009 Marty, we'd be true contenders

 

Wedgewood is playing his first season in pro hockey and has only played 3 games in Albany.  I wouldn't throw him in with the other 2 just based upon his lack of opportunity there.  Plus, from everything I've heard, if it wasn't for him in Trenton this season, that team might have won a total of 5 games. 

 

I think Lou's post-Marty plan was to have 1 or both of Wedgewood and Kincaid step up and take over.  If that doesn't happen, he will have to look to FA or a trade to get someone.  It won't be the end of the world if we have to go that route, although I think everyone is hoping that the kids develop into bona fide starters.


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