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Time to wave the white flag?


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#41 Daniel

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to stink it up for the rest of the year. Could make sure Kovy is completely healed and beta elite prospect. Everything you hear says the top 5 picks are can't miss. (Although they said the same thing about Larsson who at this point will be lucky to be a bottom pairing defenseman). Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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#42 1Guy3Cups

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:05 AM

It is what it is.  Some guys are good at it, some guys aren't...some guys seem to have a knack for it.  Unfortunately right now the Devils' #1 guy is out, and their #2 guy is playing for another team.  We're extremely spoiled when it comes to the shootout because they were so damned good at it until this year.  Some teams have been just the opposite since '05-'06, and sadly, we're finding out how the other half lives.

 

There's a lot I don't like about the shootout, but one of the things I don't like about it is it's all luck, as far as whether your team is good at it or not.  If you have a team that has defensive or offensive issues, the GM can make a move to find a coach that can improve such issues, or upgrade the personnel to find more qualified and skilled players...same with upgrading the goalie position...the moves may or may not work out, but at least it makes sense to try to address such deficiencies.  No GM is ever bringing in a player to improve on the shootout, and as we've seen, there's players who might be almost useless otherwise, but can do well in the shootout, and vice-versa.  No GM is looking at any given player who might be able to help his team in regulation and OT, and thinking to himself, "But is he any good in the shootout?  If he's not, I might have to pass."  And unfortunately for a team like the Devils, the skills competition comes up just enough in a season like this that you can feel the effects of not being successful in them, but even with that, less than a quarter of the Devils' games have gone to a shootout, so how much time would a coach really want to spend on trying to improve on them?    

I didn't say lets go trade for someone who is good at shootouts.. It's as simple as closing out a practice with a shootout situation every day... How hard is that?  By saying well our number 1 and 2 players form last year aren't there as of today is ignorant.  We have plenty of players with the ability to get the puck in the net in that situation.  I agree with you it is about luck but its also about skill and practice.. Were not playing poker here and waiting to hit that lucky card on the River.. Now thats luck.. 10 minutes of practice and we would have made up some lost points.. If we win half of those 7 losses we are in the playoffs as of today..


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#43 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:19 AM

I didn't say lets go trade for someone who is good at shootouts.. It's as simple as closing out a practice with a shootout situation every day... How hard is that?  By saying well our number 1 and 2 players form last year aren't there as of today is ignorant.  We have plenty of players with the ability to get the puck in the net in that situation.  I agree with you it is about luck but its also about skill and practice.. Were not playing poker here and waiting to hit that lucky card on the River.. Now thats luck.. 10 minutes of practice and we would have made up some lost points.. If we win half of those 7 losses we are in the playoffs as of today..

 

I never said you did say to go trade for a shootout performer.

 

How do YOU possibly know what DeBoer is or isn't doing in practices?  So it's that simple...all a coach has to do is schedule 10 minutes of practice on the shootout, and it will lead to increased point totals in shootouts.  Thank God you have it all figured out...if only DeBoer was as astute!  Maybe the Devils would've won ALL of their shootouts this season! 

 

So I guess last year, when the Devils went 12-4 in the shootout, DeBoer was scheduling in those 10 minute shooout practices then.  But I guess this season he isn't, since apparently it's all about practicing it more...10 minutes of practice, and BAM!  Increased shootout success will result.  That's all it takes!  But I'm ignorant.  fvcking priceless! 


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Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#44 1Guy3Cups

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:35 AM

I never said you did say to go trade for a shootout performer.

 

How do YOU possibly know what DeBoer is or isn't doing in practices?  So it's that simple...all a coach has to do is schedule 10 minutes of practice on the shootout, and it will lead to increased point totals in shootouts.  Thank God you have it all figured out...if only DeBoer was as astute!  Maybe the Devils would've won ALL of their shootouts this season! 

 

So I guess last year, when the Devils went 12-4 in the shootout, DeBoer was scheduling in those 10 minute shooout practices then.  But I guess this season he isn't, since apparently it's all about practicing it more...10 minutes of practice, and BAM!  Increased shootout success will result.  That's all it takes!  But I'm ignorant.  fvcking priceless! 

Clearly you aren't up on what they do during practice.  They havent practiced the shootout once this season.. And last year they did smarty pants... Tom Gulitti talks about everything they do during practice, do yourself a  favor and follow him.. So lets see practiced shootout and went 12-4, didnt't practice and are 2-7.. You sound like a moron saying that practice wouldnt help.. last time I checked 10 > than 0...


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#45 NJDevs4978

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

No they did 'not' practice the shootout last year, that's why Pete was stubborn about doing it this year. And I do follow TG.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 08 April 2013 - 09:42 AM.

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#46 ATLL765

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:45 AM

The better option is win in fvckING REGULATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AGH!


Edited by ATLL765, 08 April 2013 - 09:45 AM.

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#47 1Guy3Cups

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

I could have sworn they did... Maybe my dreams are getting mixed up with reality.. regardless that's last season.. we should be practicing it now.. No reason we don't as it won't hurt anything.. My point is those are crucial points left on the board..


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#48 1Guy3Cups

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:51 AM

You know what... I have been so angry the last 3 weeks that I have attacked a few of you guys... I am new to this forum and hope to add as much as possible to the threads.. Being negative isn't my style, just can't stand the way everything has been managed and executed to this point.  I actually enjoyed a few drinks last night and watched Mad Men and Game of Thrones over the ending of the game.. I can watch those shows on demand, chose not to last night.. I am just depressed watching us continuously dominate and not score.. Its the same thing every night.. Just like the shootout this year...


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#49 jim777

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:57 AM

Not to break up the conversation but I'm disappointed in the team like everyone else. Worst thing about it is they do look like they're trying, and trying hard, but the scoring talent just isn't there. As long as they keep at it I'll keeep watching them lose, what else can you do?

 

I do think Marty should retire though (first time I've ever said that or felt that), and so should Moose, and we should grab someone in the offseason like Miller (maybe?) and let the kids back him up until they are ready. We need some wholesale changes, and there's no time like the present.


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#50 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

No they did 'not' practice the shootout last year, that's why Pete was stubborn about doing it this year.

 

And in general, I still maintain that coaches don't spend that much time on it.  The Devils have enough trouble trying to win games.  I would think DeBoer and pretty much every NHL coach is more concerned with the 60-65 minutes that are guaranteed to be played in EVERY game, than trying to get better in a skills comp that may come up 25% of the time.  The Devils have plenty to work on, as far as regulation goes. 

 

@1Guy3Cups...I don't know if 10 minutes or not would help, and you don't either...it is far too simplistic (which is often the problem with fanspeak) to suggest that 10 minutes of practice would automatically lead to more points.  Like I said, I think some guys have a knack/talent for it, others don't, and there's a lot of luck involved.  And it's not just on the Devils' shooters...Marty has a .455 save% in shootouts this season (he's at .706 for his career), Hedberg is at .625 this season (.752 career).  They're both vets who have been in a lot of shootouts (especially Marty), and Marty studies shooter tendencies as hard as anyone.  As far as shooters go, Kovy is a great example of how there's a lot of luck with this...before last season he wasn't that great at it, then all of sudden, he's damned near automatic. 

 

The other problem with practicing the shootout to an extent is you're never going to face the goalie you're practicing against, and you're never going to face the shooters you're trying to stop in practice.  Obviously this is true of ALL aspects of practices, but if anything, if you're going to try to improve shootout performance, I'm guessing you're best off trying to watch some tapes to try to figure out what moves beat certain goalies, etc.  But it all goes back to the same thing:  shootouts just don't come up enough that coaches should spend much time on it, when there's other, more important issues that need to be addressed.  A lot of shootout abilities just seem to be God-given...I don't know how much better practicing will make a "meh" kind of shootout player perform. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#51 jagknife

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:08 AM

Can we stop with the stupid "practice the shootout"?

How about instead of worrying about scoring in the stupidest thing along side the trapezoid, they practice scoring during the first 65 minutes so it doesn't get to the SO?

Our offense is abysmal, especially for the position we currently hold. Yes lately they've been playing a much more motivated game of hockey, but they need to capitalize on their chances. Puck luck or not, this is their adversity and they need to overcome it fast without using the ZP excuse

Edited by jagknife, 08 April 2013 - 10:09 AM.

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NewKeeperSig.png of each of Toronto's 6 shots on goal in Game 6


#52 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

Not to break up the conversation but I'm disappointed in the team like everyone else. Worst thing about it is they do look like they're trying, and trying hard, but the scoring talent just isn't there. As long as they keep at it I'll keeep watching them lose, what else can you do?

 

I do think Marty should retire though (first time I've ever said that or felt that), and so should Moose, and we should grab someone in the offseason like Miller (maybe?) and let the kids back him up until they are ready. We need some wholesale changes, and there's no time like the present.

 

Marty is holding the keys on that one.  For one, though he's clearly not what he was (especially from a puck-stopping standpoint), and has even had some borderline embarassing stretches (like when he had an .894 save% though December 31 last season), he has yet to turn in an abysmal season.  And for another, this is one of those tricky situations where you have a legend, one of the very best ever to play his position, and you are trying to do right by him and the franchise...it's a very delicate balancing act, and as we saw across the river, one that can be almost disastrous (look at Mark Messier with the Rangers...the Rangers simply didn't know how to tell him to am-scray).  Marty's probably going to finish with at least respectable numbers this season (especially from a GAA standpoint, thanks to the Devils keeping shot totals down), so I feel pretty confident that he's going to want to play next season.  And I think, since the Devils signed him to two years, that they won't dream of trying to push Marty out the door. 

 

What could get potentially ugly is if Marty plays about how he's played since 2010 next season, stays healthy, and decides that he has another season in him.  I think the Devils almost have to say "Thanks for everything Marty, truly and deepfully, but no."  Like I said, these situations can get so delicate...you hope the player knows he can take his franchise off the griddle, but not all legends are able to do that gracefully. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#53 CarpathianForest

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:20 AM

Marty has zero lateral movement anymore. This was evident last year with his increased flopping. It's what led to the second Sabres goal last night. No lateral movement.


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#54 1Guy3Cups

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:23 AM

I thought we would have went after Jonathan Bernier... Maybe in the offseason.. I am all for Marty playing next year with a new goalie behind him..


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#55 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:31 AM

I thought we would have went after Jonathan Bernier... Maybe in the offseason.. I am all for Marty playing next year with a new goalie behind him..

 

Quick has an .898 save% (he's 13-11-3) this season, Bernier is at .922 (9-2-1)...LA might not be so quick to give him up...at least not without jacking up the price tag significantly.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#56 CarpathianForest

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:35 AM

I thought we would have went after Jonathan Bernier... Maybe in the offseason.. I am all for Marty playing next year with a new goalie behind him..

Bernier has pretty much made it clear he wants a starter position. He's going to go where he can be a number one next season.


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#57 jagknife

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:36 AM

Quick has an .898 save% (he's 13-11-3) this season, Bernier is at .922 (9-2-1)...LA might not be so quick to give him up...at least not without jacking up the price tag significantly.


Last I heard, and of course take with a grain if salt, was they wanted a first and a top prospect or NHL ready, young player.

Even if he hits RFA, he's going to cost someone a good price plus picks.

I agree he'd be a solid pickup though, but the price will probably scare us.

As for Quick, from the games I've seen (about half he's started, if not more), I think It was a case of Stanley Cup hangover plus getting reacclimated to playing without pain from his surgery and also inconsistency on defense. He has settled down as of late.
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NewKeeperSig.png of each of Toronto's 6 shots on goal in Game 6


#58 peteyvegas51

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:40 AM

A team of 4th liners aren't going to win a shootout.  And that's what we have right now.  Henrique, Zajac, Zubrus, Elias and even Clarkson.  Where's the goals?


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#59 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:41 AM

Last I heard, and of course take with a grain if salt, was they wanted a first and a top prospect or NHL ready, young player.

Even if he hits RFA, he's going to cost someone a good price plus picks.

I agree he'd be a solid pickup though, but the price will probably scare us.

As for Quick, from the games I've seen (about half he's started, if not more), I think It was a case of Stanley Cup hangover plus getting reacclimated to playing without pain from his surgery and also inconsistency on defense. He has settled down as of late.

 

And with a 10-year deal, LA is pretty much tied to Quick...so even if Bernier outplays him, Quick would be hard to move.  He had a terrible March BTW...an .881 save% in 13 GP, which usually gets you benched for a bit...unless on you're on a 10-year deal. 


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#60 jim777

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:45 AM

I think they signed both Marty and Moose for 2 years thinking they would give them one more season, and that this one simply wouldn't get played. But you are 100% right, Marty has to decide to step aside on his own, you can't push him out after what he has meant to the franchise. But how nice would it be to see a young gun whippersnapper of only 32 or 33 in the pipes? :)


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