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#41 SterioDesign

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:46 PM

the comparison with Hedman is fair, Hedman is alright he's also a 2way D that doesnt produce that much points.

 

Let's put it this way... fine he's still young and everything... but how long til you'd really still pick him over Duchene, E. Kane ? if ever... THOSE are impact players. I know forwards develop sooner and everything but still... do you really think you'd ever pick Hedman over those 2? even Kadri could be brought in that talk and Ekman-Larsson who's already established pretty well.


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#42 Devilsfan118

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:49 PM

He should of stayed in Sweden last year and played this year and next in Albany. The Devils used to do it right with young kids.


He was (apparently) dominant in Albany, so I think it's the right decision to keep him with the big boys, SO LONG AS HE SEES CONSISTENT ICE TIME.

None of this healthy scratch nonsense if he doesn't deserve it.
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#43 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:54 PM

the comparison with Hedman is fair, Hedman is alright he's also a 2way D that doesnt produce that much points.

Let's put it this way... fine he's still young and everything... but how long til you'd really still pick him over Duchene, E. Kane ? if ever... THOSE are impact players. I know forwards develop sooner and everything but still... do you really think you'd ever pick Hedman over those 2? even Kadri could be brought in that talk and Ekman-Larsson who's already established pretty well.


I may have my years wrong, but weren't those players drafted in a different year?
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#44 SterioDesign

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:00 PM

I may have my years wrong, but weren't those players drafted in a different year?

 

nop right after him...

 

http://www.hockeydb....t/nhl2009e.html

 

if you scroll down and if youre like me... theres LOTS of players i'd want on my team before Hedman, im petrified to the idea that we'll likely say the same about Larsson's draft year in a few years too


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#45 capo

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:06 PM

He was (apparently) dominant in Albany, so I think it's the right decision to keep him with the big boys, SO LONG AS HE SEES CONSISTENT ICE TIME.

None of this healthy scratch nonsense if he doesn't deserve it.

What about Gelinas?  He killed it in Albany last year.  Shouldn't he have gotten a sniff?  The correct answer is no.  Neither one of them belong in the NHL.  Larsson has been so bad if he had been Gelinas he'd probably be on another team by now.  Marty has saved Larsson's ass so much already he should be buying dinner nightly.  Larsson has talent. I'm not saying he doesn't but the adjustment to the league has been to great for him and he would be much better playing in the league where he can make mistakes and grow.  He also very soft and skiddish.  These are the two things that makes me think he's not going to adjust to the league and be a good NHL player.  Josefson is the same way.


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#46 Triumph

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:08 PM

Hedman is better than Duchene, probably, and possibly Kane.  At any rate it's close.  You will always regret drafting Larsson if you judge players by points, because Larsson will not score that many of them.

 

Larsson's 'softness' always cracks me up.  Yeah the guy who takes all the hits and seldom coughs up the puck to avoid a hit?  Soft.  What a baby.


Edited by Triumph, 08 April 2013 - 07:10 PM.

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#47 Devils731

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:15 PM

Hedman is better than Duchene, probably, and possibly Kane.  At any rate it's close.  You will always regret drafting Larsson if you judge players by points, because Larsson will not score that many of them.

 

Larsson's 'softness' always cracks me up.  Yeah the guy who takes all the hits and seldom coughs up the puck to avoid a hit?  Soft.  What a baby.

 

Larsson is brave, willing to take hits to make plays, but he also isn't tough, since he doesn't seem to want to dish any pain out and avoids initiating contact.  So he's tough in one way and soft in the other.


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#48 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:22 PM

Larsson is brave, willing to take hits to make plays, but he also isn't tough, since he doesn't seem to want to dish any pain out and avoids initiating contact.  So he's tough in one way and soft in the other.

 

You could say that about soooo many great NHLers. Not everyone has to be physically aggressive to be successful.


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#49 DH26

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:12 PM

Larsson is brave, willing to take hits to make plays, but he also isn't tough, since he doesn't seem to want to dish any pain out and avoids initiating contact.  So he's tough in one way and soft in the other.

 

he's just not that kind of player. It sounds like you want a different kind of player. He's not gonna be the physical monster like Shea Weber but there are plenty of other kinds of defensemen. I'm sure Senators fans though Karlsson was way too soft his first year (not that they're similar kinds of players) but would they now change him? Absolutely not. Hits=meaningless statistic. By your logic, Niedermayer must have been the softest player on earth. He was still pretty good 



the comparison with Hedman is fair, Hedman is alright he's also a 2way D that doesnt produce that much points.

 

Let's put it this way... fine he's still young and everything... but how long til you'd really still pick him over Duchene, E. Kane ? if ever... THOSE are impact players. I know forwards develop sooner and everything but still... do you really think you'd ever pick Hedman over those 2? even Kadri could be brought in that talk and Ekman-Larsson who's already established pretty well.

 

and there's no way Tampa would even consider trading Hedman for Duchene. That would be ridiculous for them. Kane's awesome, but points are the end all. 

 

Do people think Larsson's going to be Shea Weber? They're obviously horribly wrong about that. He's not that kind of player. He's more finesse. So was Lidstrom. Larsson's barring a miracle not going to be that, but he's that style of player 


Edited by DH26, 08 April 2013 - 08:13 PM.

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#50 Devils731

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:26 PM

Where did I say whether Larsson playing this way was good or bad?  I complimented him in one aspect of his game and fairly critiqued another aspect of his game.  Neither person disputed what I said is untrue but both seemed to feel it was unfair to say.

 

To clarify, I don't care if Larsson hits people, he doesn't put himself in a good position on the boards because he often won't fight for it, he's content to sit on the outside of the player and not win the puck.

 

I think people are too touchy on Larsson, as if talking about the areas he might improve in makes him actually play worse.


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#51 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:10 PM

Where did I say whether Larsson playing this way was good or bad?  I complimented him in one aspect of his game and fairly critiqued another aspect of his game.  Neither person disputed what I said is untrue but both seemed to feel it was unfair to say.

 

To clarify, I don't care if Larsson hits people, he doesn't put himself in a good position on the boards because he often won't fight for it, he's content to sit on the outside of the player and not win the puck.

 

I think people are too touchy on Larsson, as if talking about the areas he might improve in makes him actually play worse.

 

When you called him "soft". "Soft" in hockey terms is not a good thing. Maybe some people are too touchy about Larsson, but I would say far more people are way too critical of him and have unrealistic expectations. I don't agree with you that Larsson doesn't have good positioning on the boards and refuses to fight for pucks. I think he needs to build up more strength so that he can use his body better to win those puck battles, but I think that will come with age and experience. I don't think it's something he's doing wrong right now, particularly. His lack of unnecessary aggression I think will work to his advantage in the long run. He just needs to get a little stronger, a little faster, and a little more experienced. I think he is about where he should be in his development, I just wish he was playing every game.


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#52 capo

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:16 PM

"he's just not that kind of player. It sounds like you want a different kind of player. He's not gonna be the physical monster like Shea Weber but there are plenty of other kinds of defensemen. I'm sure Senators fans though Karlsson was way too soft his first year (not that they're similar kinds of players) but would they now change him? Absolutely not. Hits=meaningless statistic. By your logic, Niedermayer must have been the softest player on earth. He was still pretty good"

 

#27 had skills to compensate for what he lacked as a younger player.  And he could play with a bit of an edge too.  He was by no means #3 but you piss him off and he'll get you.  #27 is not only one of the best Devils of all time he's one of the best D in all of NHL history of all time.  Extremely bad comparison.

 

I want to see Larsson play with that edge.  Show me something, kid.  Any fvcking loser can stand there and get ran over like he does all the damn time. (I know some people call this taking one for the team).  Playing with an edge doesn't mean he has to play like Weber.  He just has to play with some god damn confidence.  Your in the fvcking NHL, boy.  Act like you belong!  He can't use he's afraid to make mistake because he'll get benched.  He makes mistakes all the time and still gets ice. 


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#53 SterioDesign

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:52 PM

what some seem to miss here... is that we all know he's gonna be an AHLer and have a long career... my worry is that he'll never be worth a 4th round pick. you can find player "like larsson and his ceiling and what he'd bring" in later round, its pretty common for dman. You don't use a top 4 pick to "just get that". Thats my problem, with a top pick you try to go for  the jackpot. Of course some great dman have being picked in the top 5 but Larsson was never projected to bring it all, he never had good production numbers anywhere".

 

And yes i know points are not everything, but he's certainly not bringing much defensively to compensate from what he's not producing and where he was drafted.


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#54 CarterforPresident

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:01 PM

I'd go for Brent Burns but don't think just Adam is enough. He would help us so much. And no Kane is better then both. There all good but Kane is the upper tier of the trio you named

Edited by CarterforPresident, 08 April 2013 - 10:17 PM.

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#55 Troy from NJ

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:10 PM

Larsson plays scared.   Let's talk about his pros first.   He has incredible vision.   He's a very good passer out of the break.   He may not be the fastest skater, but he can "float" when he has to and find the open point to take a shot.    He's also young and needs to fill out a bit.   I think he's going to be a top 2 D man in this league for a long time.   Nieds is a bad comparison because of what he became, but I remember MANY wanting his head early because he was too soft, made too many mistakes and was always thinking offense  (remember the games he suited up as a wing?) and getting burnt defensively.   I think he turned out ok, eh?   Of course the negatives with Larsson are glaring right now:  bad decisions with the puck; plays too soft for NHL hockey;  easily intimidated; doesn't have that nasty edge that makes up for other shortcomings in the NHL game and a general "European" softness that Don Cherry always screams about...until Peter Forsberg showed just how tough a Swede could be.

 

Larsson played better the first few games as a pro  (even pre-season) than he has now, and the biggest difference is he wasn't afraid to make mistakes early on.   He played a little too wrecklessly, but he was young and learning and played with confidence in himself.   He's lost that.  I think PDB has played with his head and now he just wants to play and is taking it a notch down to try and play clean hockey instead of winning hockey.   There's a whole other level to this kid.  The only question is can NJ get it out of him?   Nieds had Stevens to learn from and bail him out.   Larsson has nobody.    How I'd love to see a guy like Lidstrom take on a special coaching assignment and work with Larsson over the summer (no, I don't think Stevens can get it out of him.  His personality doesn't lend to working with a guy as intimidating as Stevens.   Even Nieds, and yes, Robinson would help.)   He has the goods.    We're not talking Brad Bombadir here.   Devils:  invest in your investment before he becomes a basket case and a could have been.


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#56 hystyk28

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:13 PM

Hedman is better than Duchene, probably, and possibly Kane.  At any rate it's close.  

 

Really?


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#57 SMantzas

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:38 PM

"Son, finish your algebra!"

 

"But Dad, I'm only 6 years old"


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#58 Devils731

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:47 PM

When you called him "soft". "Soft" in hockey terms is not a good thing. Maybe some people are too touchy about Larsson, but I would say far more people are way too critical of him and have unrealistic expectations. I don't agree with you that Larsson doesn't have good positioning on the boards and refuses to fight for pucks. I think he needs to build up more strength so that he can use his body better to win those puck battles, but I think that will come with age and experience. I don't think it's something he's doing wrong right now, particularly. His lack of unnecessary aggression I think will work to his advantage in the long run. He just needs to get a little stronger, a little faster, and a little more experienced. I think he is about where he should be in his development, I just wish he was playing every game.

 

But Larsson is soft when it comes to initiating contact.  It's not bad or good, it's just who he has been.  

 

I also called Larsson brave in a different aspect of the game, so I wasn't calling Larsson soft, I was calling that aspect of his game soft. You basically agree with me that he doesn't initiate contact, or at least you appear to be, which is what I was saying.

 

When you say he lacks "unnecessary aggression" it makes it seem like people want him to have "unnecessary" aggression when I think most people simply want him to play with more aggression, or closer to a proper amount.  That his lack of aggression is hurting his overall game.  Nobody is asking him to play stupidly or overly aggressive.

 

I think if you really watch Larsson play with pucks on the boards, he loses too many battles where he is the first man there, those should be wins. He usually is not the first man there because his footwork isn't good enough yet, he normally does not win those pucks. In the worst case scenarios, his footwork being poor prevents him from even creating a battle and the other team wins free possession with space and time to work with. His footwork problems are definitely a current bad aspect.


Edited by Devils731, 08 April 2013 - 10:49 PM.

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Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

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#59 hystyk28

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:50 PM

"Son, finish your algebra!"

 

"But Dad, I'm only 6 years old"

 

The kid can't skate at this level.  It's painfully obvious. If he corrects this, he will be as good as we all hope.  It's on him, not PDM or anyone else.


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#60 DH26

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:33 PM

this strikes me as the Robinson Cano argument: he looks smooth and doesn't really show emotion so people think he doesn't care enough or doesn't try hard enough with no real evidence to back that up besides looking at their demeanor 


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