Jump to content

Photo

Larsson


  • Please log in to reply
139 replies to this topic

#61 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,521 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:42 PM

this strikes me as the Robinson Cano argument: he looks smooth and doesn't really show emotion so people think he doesn't care enough or doesn't try hard enough with no real evidence to back that up besides looking at their demeanor 

 

I don't think anyone said Larsson didn't care or isn't trying hard, it's that his play isn't showing enough alacrity.  Being too passive isn't the same as not caring or not trying.

 

Larsson and smooth don't really go together either, right now.  He's fallen or stumbled multiple times this season, just trying to start skating backwards.  The last time was a game or two ago.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#62 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,420 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:11 AM

Hedman is better than Duchene, probably, and possibly Kane. At any rate it's close. You will always regret drafting Larsson if you judge players by points, because Larsson will not score that many of them.

Larsson's 'softness' always cracks me up. Yeah the guy who takes all the hits and seldom coughs up the puck to avoid a hit? Soft. What a baby.

Lol hedman better than kane and duchene... Come on man. Only Hedman's mom would agree with you on that.

So okay, name me a franchise dman (active or non-active) who was not putting up a decent amount of points but still would have been worth a top 4 pick.

Ill give you a list of guys you cant pick.... Lidstrom, niedermayer, stevens, bourques, orr, robinson, chara, weber, doughty, pronger, leetch, potvin, coffey, harvey, keith etc etc

So youre saying that his best assets are his passes and vision... Yet he wont be able to put lots of points you say... Means then that he'll be hard as fvck to play against? Well no cause hes not aggressive, easy to go around and hes not great at blocking shots...

He doesnt have the assets to be an elite offensive dman, and he doesnt have the assets to be a great shutdown dman... So hes a somewhat average 2way player at best cause hes certainly not elite at any end.

So what the hell is he supposed to become in your mind to be worth that 4th pick?

Edited by SterioDesign, 09 April 2013 - 12:16 AM.

  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#63 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,411 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:09 AM

So youre saying that his best assets are his passes and vision... Yet he wont be able to put lots of points you say... Means then that he'll be hard as fvck to play against? Well no cause hes not aggressive, easy to go around and hes not great at blocking shots...

 


He doesnt have the assets to be an elite offensive dman, and he doesnt have the assets to be a great shutdown dman... So hes a somewhat average 2way player at best cause hes certainly not elite at any end. 

 

 

If he was elite at any end we wouldn't be having this conversation about what he'll develop into. Isn't that obvious? Passing and vision doesn't have to result in points - this season is proof of that, since no forward can put the puck in the net, Adam gets no PP time and usually starts in his own zone. 

 

I don't see why you have to be aggressive to be a great shutdown d-man. Positioning is more important and that can be taught - ask Mike Mottau. As for blocked shots...he has blocked more shots than Volchenkov and is third on the team behind  Slavador and Greene in that aspect. 


  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award


#64 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,420 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:19 AM

If he was elite at any end we wouldn't be having this conversation about what he'll develop into. Isn't that obvious? Passing and vision doesn't have to result in points - this season is proof of that, since no forward can put the puck in the net, Adam gets no PP time and usually starts in his own zone. 

 

I don't see why you have to be aggressive to be a great shutdown d-man. Positioning is more important and that can be taught - ask Mike Mottau. As for blocked shots...he has blocked more shots than Volchenkov and is third on the team behind  Slavador and Greene in that aspect. 

 

being the best at something on the D on "this team" is not that great of an achievement.

 

and it's not as if every game we're telling ourselves, what a fvcking stud remember that play he did and that breakout and that pass? i wish i could see it but i simply don't see anything more than the other guys in Larsson. And i'm not gonna try to convinced myself either to see something that isnt there.


Edited by SterioDesign, 09 April 2013 - 07:22 AM.

  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#65 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,452 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

It takes defensemen, particularly younger defense much more time to develop in the NHL.  But he is on the right track and is a keeper.


  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#66 EdgeControl

EdgeControl

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,510 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:10 AM

I don't think anyone said Larsson didn't care or isn't trying hard, it's that his play isn't showing enough alacrity.  Being too passive isn't the same as not caring or not trying.

 

Larsson and smooth don't really go together either, right now.  He's fallen or stumbled multiple times this season, just trying to start skating backwards.  The last time was a game or two ago.

Yup, it could be he's thnking too much which is slowing him down mentally. defense is about staying ahead of the play and being quick  its obvious he doesnt have fast feet so he needs to keep his motor reving at a high rate. when the coaching staff see's that motor dwindle they scratch him  you can tell they worked hard on his backwards crossover starts to get him up to NHL speed and are trying to teach him how to use his size/length to angle rushers off  hopefully that and pro office training can bring him up to adequate.  he's been lucky paired up with fast feet Andy greene who can swoop in and dig a puck out behind the net and skate it out under heavy pressure, because larsson is nowhere near doing that yet. NO ONE can say at this point what we have in him

 

and yes he is getting run at and its not just behind the net its on the side boards as well, amazing he has taken that heavy pounding without injury which is a good sign


Edited by EdgeControl, 09 April 2013 - 08:12 AM.

  • 0

#67 leeski

leeski

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 75 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:34 AM

Larsson needs to improve his skating, bulk up a bit, improve his grit and confidence, and he'll be okay.


  • 0

#68 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,079 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

Lol hedman better than kane and duchene... Come on man. Only Hedman's mom would agree with you on that.

So okay, name me a franchise dman (active or non-active) who was not putting up a decent amount of points but still would have been worth a top 4 pick.

Ill give you a list of guys you cant pick.... Lidstrom, niedermayer, stevens, bourques, orr, robinson, chara, weber, doughty, pronger, leetch, potvin, coffey, harvey, keith etc etc

So youre saying that his best assets are his passes and vision... Yet he wont be able to put lots of points you say... Means then that he'll be hard as fvck to play against? Well no cause hes not aggressive, easy to go around and hes not great at blocking shots...

He doesnt have the assets to be an elite offensive dman, and he doesnt have the assets to be a great shutdown dman... So hes a somewhat average 2way player at best cause hes certainly not elite at any end.

So what the hell is he supposed to become in your mind to be worth that 4th pick?

 

The game has changed a ton, so throw out anyone who was drafted before 1996.  Although I might take Brad McCrimmon 4th overall, hard to say really.

 

Two, putting up points is not in and of itself a valuable skill - a defenseman who plays on the power play will put up points.  The question is, is he affecting the power play in a positive way?  Much tougher question to answer.  If the Devils put Larsson on the power play, even with how bad he would be at that right now, he'd have more points for sure.  But would he be a better player?    

 

Duchene and Kane have wonderful offensive abilities but how much are they helping?  Probably some, but not as much as you'd think.  Evander Kane is on pace for a 56 point season and you're going gaga over this?  He's better than Hedman who himself would be on pace for 36 points, including 9 goals, and who drives play forward in a way that Kane probably doesn't yet?  I mean the argument you are making is that forwards are more valuable than defensemen.  I don't believe that to be true.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#69 CarterforPresident

CarterforPresident

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,814 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:48 AM

Hedman is great but Kane is considered more or less an Elite player. Not so much for Hedman.


  • 0

#70 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,012 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:50 AM

The other thing about Hedman is that he might actually put up gaudy offensive numbers in a few years with different coaching and nore experience. He appears to have the offensive ability based on the fact that he's chosen to take penalty shots.

Re Larsson being soft, there are a few hall of fame defensemen that had that reputation, most notably Lidstrom. The problem is that Larsson doesn't have nearly enough skill to get away with that. He got his clock cleaned a few times during the world juniors much less than by the likes of Subban.
  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#71 SMantzas

SMantzas

    Assistant Coach

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,929 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:58 AM

The other thing about Hedman is that he might actually put up gaudy offensive numbers in a few years with different coaching and nore experience. He appears to have the offensive ability based on the fact that he's chosen to take penalty shots.

Re Larsson being soft, there are a few hall of fame defensemen that had that reputation, most notably Lidstrom. The problem is that Larsson doesn't have nearly enough skill to get away with that. He got his clock cleaned a few times during the world juniors much less than by the likes of Subban.

I think Larsson getting even the tiniest bit faster will significantly help in that regard. I may be seeing something, but I feel like opposing players often target Larsson by finishing their hits late. That either says: A) I respect him as a player and appreciate his skill or B) It's like hitting Stephen Gionta!


  • 0

#72 nessus

nessus

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 881 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:14 AM

I'm not Hedman's mom and I still would pick him before Duchene or Kane.
 
It's a bit unfair to judge Larsson at this stage, especially after a bad game. He hasn't had a very good year, but his confidence is likely gone, and I find it hard to believe that he has had any time to develop this year. Take a look at any other defenseman drafted that year. No one is near what their potential could be, not even Hamilton.


  • 0

#73 redruM

redruM

    Hockey God

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,567 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

Defense is that hardest position to come in young, it took Neids yeard before he fullfilled hi potential.  Larsson is doing well, he shows flashes of billiance and flahsed of immaturity, extpected at 20.


  • 1
Posted Image

2006 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2006 JHL CHAMPION!!
2005 CHAMPION of the 1st Annual NJDevs Fantasy Wrestling League!!!
2005 Finalist 1st Annual NJDEVS Fantasy Baseball League
2005 Pat Burns Award Winner(Most emotional Poster)
2004 LockOut Trivia CHAMP!!!


Keeper of The original Welcome to Hell Forum, Jimmy Dowd, Brian Rolston, "Christmas Tree" Jersey's and the Original Trade Documents of the FREEZE man!!


BOM U11G Dynamite

Posted Image

#74 mouse

mouse

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,520 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

Really physical, or really offensive defensemen show more when they're young. Larsson's game is based on positioning and intelligence, which means as he learns, he's going to get exposed. I think he does a lot right, but when he does something wrong, we're a lot more likely to notice. It doesn't help that no one is playing well, and it means that when someone makes a mistake, it usually seems to end up in the back of the net. IMHO he looks a lot better than he did this time last year, and he's still 20, which means he hasn't reached his full potential. Hopefully, Stevens gets better as a coach, since IMO he hasn't done as well with anyone as Robinson, not helpful with a young defensive core on their way in.


  • 0

Sumus Legio
You don't turn this around in a couple shifts. Its going to take a little time, but I know the guys will come back. Because I can see it. -- Jacques Lemaire

 

sguq.jpg


#75 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,617 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:35 AM

So glad none of you are the coach or GM of the New Jersey Devils...


  • 0

#76 leeski

leeski

    Prospect

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 75 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:43 AM

I feel like this year has been a wasted year of potential development for him. He should have either been fully on the team or fully in Albany. Either way he's gotta be on the ice to get better.


  • 0

#77 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,521 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:45 AM

I feel like this year has been a wasted year of potential development for him. He should have either been fully on the team or fully in Albany. Either way he's gotta be on the ice to get better.

 

He's played 62 games so far this year, he may get to 70 games, that's a lot of games.  Not including if the Devils make the playoffs and he plays.

 

But really, 62 games is already a good amount of games as is.  If he was in Albany, and never sat 1 game, he'd only be at 70 games right now, and the top defenseman has played 67.


Edited by Devils731, 09 April 2013 - 09:47 AM.

  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#78 jagknife

jagknife

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,530 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

So from what I've been reading, some people expected Larsson to be as smooth as Niedermayer, as intimidating as Stevens, and as impactful as Lidstrom, all in one.

wow...
  • 0

NewKeeperSig.png of each of Toronto's 6 shots on goal in Game 6


#79 ATLL765

ATLL765

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,481 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:50 AM

What about Gelinas?  He killed it in Albany last year.  Shouldn't he have gotten a sniff?  The correct answer is no.  Neither one of them belong in the NHL.  Larsson has been so bad if he had been Gelinas he'd probably be on another team by now.  Marty has saved Larsson's ass so much already he should be buying dinner nightly.  Larsson has talent. I'm not saying he doesn't but the adjustment to the league has been to great for him and he would be much better playing in the league where he can make mistakes and grow.  He also very soft and skiddish.  These are the two things that makes me think he's not going to adjust to the league and be a good NHL player.  Josefson is the same way.

First off, it's skittish, not skiddish, whatever that means and secondly, Larsson isn't playing that bad, you're all just whiners who obviously have 0 patience.


  • 0

#80 jagknife

jagknife

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,530 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:10 AM

First off, it's skittish, not skiddish, whatever that means and secondly, Larsson isn't playing that bad, you're all just whiners who obviously have 0 patience.


INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!
  • 0

NewKeeperSig.png of each of Toronto's 6 shots on goal in Game 6





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users