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Elias about Lou's free agents approach


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#1 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:09 AM

Rich Chere of the Star-Ledger: Lou Lamoriello and the Devils are following the same path as they did with Zach Parise last season, by not talking to key free agents and risking losing them like they did with Parise. The Devils haven’t talked with Patrick Elias, David Clarkson and Dainius Zubrus. Lamoriello has an unwritten policy to not talk to players or agents about a contract extension while the season is in progress. He did make an exception for Martin Brodeur.

 

“Who wouldn’t want to talk about it during the season?” Elias asked. “Then you would see they have interest. And, if you like the offer, why wouldn’t you sign? But that never came up here.

 

“If it had happened it would’ve been great, but it didn’t happen. It’s getting kind of late now.”

 

Just sayin'..... and coming from within the organization. But i'll say... IF we lose Elias after what happened with Zach, the same way and for nothing i DONT CARE about Lou's past track record, don't take fvcking useless chances Lou !Whats the fvcking point other than you being old school ? 


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#2 '7'

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:12 AM

once again, Lou's stubbornness and adherence to some archaic, pointless "rule" is going to cost this team. It's time to start learning from mistakes Mr. Lamoriello


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#3 mrthemike

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:54 AM

Anyone know the reason behind this Lou rule? I can't think of anything besides it being a distraction during the season that Lou wants to avoid. Though, this creates a distraction anyways.


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#4 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:58 AM

Guys, Lou is as Lou does.  He has his ways and he's not going to change, though re-signing Kovy was a pretty major departure for him...I think to a fan, we thought there was no way Lou would ever bring him back, especially for that kind of coin.  You can bitch about him all you want, but it's hard to argue the overall results.  And it's not like the teams who DO business differently that Lou have been wildly successful by comparison. 

 

That being said, his approach isn't the fan-friendliest...he can come off as stubborn, stodgy, cold, and even a little out-of-touch with the current NHL.  He's not warm and fuzzy and never will be.   

 

As far as Elias goes, he is going be 37 this Saturday, and the results of his mega-deal were mixed, heading towards pretty good overall.  I said it in another thread, but if I was Lou, I would've seen if there was any interest in him before the deadline, just to see if someone was willing to overpay for him.  But if he doesn't re-sign here, is it necessarily going to be the end of the world?  For one, that's a lot of money that can be spent elsewhere...opens up other possibilities.  For another, like I've pointed out, Elias will be 37 at the start of his next deal.  I'm not saying Lou shouldn't get involved and just resign himself to losing him...but I don't think it's an automatic slam-dunk that Lou should keep him either. 


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#5 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:02 AM

Anyone know the reason behind this Lou rule? I can't think of anything besides it being a distraction during the season that Lou wants to avoid. Though, this creates a distraction anyways.

 

Yeah i mentioned it before, it's A LOT more distractions to have no clue what will happen in the future and keep getting asked by medias all the time. If you know you want to stay somewhere, why wait? like Zach said 2 summers ago... if you're in that position, why not wait an extra few weeks and see the interest out there? 

 

for players you know you have to keep whats the fvcking point of even risking losing them that way and give them the chance to walk? Some will defend Lou with all kind of stupid reasoning like... "players deserved the right to test the market and Lou is loyal in that way"... It's a fvcking business ! you have to protect your assets and make sure to keep them.

 

i love Lou for everything he did but thats the ONE thing i can't get over.


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#6 '7'

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:09 AM

I think we have to credit Vanderbeek going over Lou's head for Kovalchuk. And thank god he did.


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#7 DevsMan84

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

I know Lou does what Lou does.  I've accepted that a long time ago and he does come off very often as stubborn and cold.

 

While there are plenty of free agents that Lou could have thrown tons of money left and would have made no difference, I wonder how many players he could have kept just by maybe opening at least some dialogue before that short period between the end of the season and free agency start.

 

This is not the first time a current or former player has said they feel a tiny bit disrespected and hurt by this tactic.


Edited by DevsMan84, 10 April 2013 - 09:12 AM.

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#8 Triumph

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

If you signed Elias a month ago, you'd pay more than you might pay at the end of the season if the Devils miss the playoffs and Elias continues on this bad streak.  Not to mention the risk of injury - if Elias wanted to get a one year deal like Timonen got, great, but giving him 2 or more years in season is asking for trouble.



I think we have to credit Vanderbeek going over Lou's head for Kovalchuk. And thank god he did.

 

Gonna bookmark this one for 3 years down the road.


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#9 '7'

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:14 AM

If you signed Elias a month ago, you'd pay more than you might pay at the end of the season if the Devils miss the playoffs and Elias continues on this bad streak.  Not to mention the risk of injury - if Elias wanted to get a one year deal like Timonen got, great, but giving him 2 or more years in season is asking for trouble.



 

Gonna bookmark this one for 3 years down the road.

 

Trip to the Finals, beating NYR and Philly in the playoffs...record crowds and interest in the Devils is at an all time high. It's not all Kovalchuk...but he has a lot to do with it. 


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#10 DevsMan84

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:15 AM

If you signed Elias a month ago, you'd pay more than you might pay at the end of the season if the Devils miss the playoffs and Elias continues on this bad streak.  Not to mention the risk of injury - if Elias wanted to get a one year deal like Timonen got, great, but giving him 2 or more years in season is asking for trouble.



 

Gonna bookmark this one for 3 years down the road.

 

 

Lou gave Salvador three years and look how that has turned out?  Hell Salvador wasn't exactly impressing anyone before last year's playoffs either and yet he still got a ridiculous contract.  If anyone on the Devils deserves a "Thank-you" contract for their play for the past 5 years its Patty and not the ones Lou has been giving out the past few years.


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#11 Daniel

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

If you signed Elias a month ago, you'd pay more than you might pay at the end of the season if the Devils miss the playoffs and Elias continues on this bad streak.  Not to mention the risk of injury - if Elias wanted to get a one year deal like Timonen got, great, but giving him 2 or more years in season is asking for trouble.

 

Or it could work the other way like it did with Jeter back in 2000 or 2001 (don't recall the year).  If you recall, the Yankees, if they decided to break with their no inseason negotiation rules, could have signed Jeter at 7 years $114 million.  Instead, they waited and ended up having to sign a 10 year $189 million deal. 

 

I'm not worried about Zubrus.  As long as there is a fair offer, I think he's staying.  Elias I'm not so sure about.  I think a lot of it will come down to whether he thinks the Devils will be legitimate contenders in the next 2 to 3 years.   Perhaps it might hinge on whether the Devils make a playoff run or if they end up with a Nate McKinnon in the draft.


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#12 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:23 AM

Lou gave Salvador three years and look how that has turned out?  Hell Salvador wasn't exactly impressing anyone before last year's playoffs either and yet he still got a ridiculous contract.  If anyone on the Devils deserves a "Thank-you" contract for their play for the past 5 years its Patty and not the ones Lou has been giving out the past few years.

 

No more "Thank you" contracts, please.  If Lou truly believes that Elias can still help the Devils on the ice for the next year or two and can sign him to a reasonable deal (not a lifetime award achievement contract), then I can get behind it, though two seasons seems risky.  Anything more, I'd let him walk.  The Devils as of now have gotten 1081 games and 924 points out of him, all of his prime years, and he was a big part of two Cup wins and got to four Finals.  If they can't figure it out, I think both parties can part ways knowing it was a mutually beneficial run.  I don't think the Devils are indebted to him for the life of Elias' career (not saying you're suggesting as such, just pointing that out).  This situation isn't quite as sticky as Brodeur's is.    


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#13 Daniel

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:26 AM

Lou gave Salvador three years and look how that has turned out?  Hell Salvador wasn't exactly impressing anyone before last year's playoffs either and yet he still got a ridiculous contract.  If anyone on the Devils deserves a "Thank-you" contract for their play for the past 5 years its Patty and not the ones Lou has been giving out the past few years.

 

Salvador is the biggest head scratcher of them all.  Deals that have turned out to be questionable you could kind of understand.  A lot of people liked the Rolston deal at the time, and there was a lot of competition for him.  Volchenkov was thought of as a good signing at the time.  I mean there are a lot of weak GMs out there that would have fallen for how well Salvador did in the playoffs, but still.

 

I wonder whether it might have had something to do with trying to convince Parise to stay, since the two evidently are pretty close. 


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#14 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:27 AM

Or it could work the other way like it did with Jeter back in 2000 or 2001 (don't recall the year).  If you recall, the Yankees, if they decided to break with their no inseason negotiation rules, could have signed Jeter at 7 years $114 million.  Instead, they waited and ended up having to sign a 10 year $189 million deal. 

 

I'm not worried about Zubrus.  As long as there is a fair offer, I think he's staying.  Elias I'm not so sure about.  I think a lot of it will come down to whether he thinks the Devils will be legitimate contenders in the next 2 to 3 years.   Perhaps it might hinge on whether the Devils make a playoff run or if they end up with a Nate McKinnon in the draft.

 

Jeter is not a great comparison...Jeter was clearly in his prime back then, with a whole career ahead of him...he wasn't even 30 years old yet.  Even if one wants to consider this part of Elias' career being the very tail end of his prime, at 37 it's hard to predict exactly what Elias has left.  Late 30s players are pretty much wild-cards. 


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[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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#15 Triumph

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:28 AM

Or it could work the other way like it did with Jeter back in 2000 or 2001 (don't recall the year).  If you recall, the Yankees, if they decided to break with their no inseason negotiation rules, could have signed Jeter at 7 years $114 million.  Instead, they waited and ended up having to sign a 10 year $189 million deal. 

 

I'm not worried about Zubrus.  As long as there is a fair offer, I think he's staying.  Elias I'm not so sure about.  I think a lot of it will come down to whether he thinks the Devils will be legitimate contenders in the next 2 to 3 years.   Perhaps it might hinge on whether the Devils make a playoff run or if they end up with a Nate McKinnon in the draft.

 

It's not likely to work the other way when the guy is 37.  Elias has an entire career of work - one great season might increase his salary, but not by all that much.

 

Most of the teams who are doing well now won't be able to afford Elias this summer.


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#16 DevsMan84

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

No more "Thank you" contracts, please.  If Lou truly believes that Elias can still help the Devils on the ice for the next year or two and can sign him to a reasonable deal (not a lifetime award achievement contract), then I can get behind it, though two seasons seems risky.  Anything more, I'd let him walk.  The Devils as of now have gotten 1081 games and 924 points out of him, all of his prime years, and he was a big part of two Cup wins and got to four Finals.  If they can't figure it out, I think both parties can part ways knowing it was a mutually beneficial run.  I don't think the Devils are indebted to him for the life of Elias' career (not saying you're suggesting as such, just pointing that out).  This situation isn't quite as sticky as Brodeur's is.    

 

 

I would love no more thank you contracts either, but we all know Lou can't help it.

 

As for Elias, his prime years might be behind him but right now including this season he has lead this team in points 2 of the last 3 years.  He may be out of his prime but he is still contributing when we all thought he should have started to break down a few years ago.


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#17 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

Guys, Lou is as Lou does.  He has his ways and he's not going to change, though re-signing Kovy was a pretty major departure for him...I think to a fan, we thought there was no way Lou would ever bring him back, especially for that kind of coin.  You can bitch about him all you want, but it's hard to argue the overall results.  And it's not like the teams who DO business differently that Lou have been wildly successful by comparison. 

 

That being said, his approach isn't the fan-friendliest...he can come off as stubborn, stodgy, cold, and even a little out-of-touch with the current NHL.  He's not warm and fuzzy and never will be.   

 

As far as Elias goes, he is going be 37 this Saturday, and the results of his mega-deal were mixed, heading towards pretty good overall.  I said it in another thread, but if I was Lou, I would've seen if there was any interest in him before the deadline, just to see if someone was willing to overpay for him.  But if he doesn't re-sign here, is it necessarily going to be the end of the world?  For one, that's a lot of money that can be spent elsewhere...opens up other possibilities.  For another, like I've pointed out, Elias will be 37 at the start of his next deal.  I'm not saying Lou shouldn't get involved and just resign himself to losing him...but I don't think it's an automatic slam-dunk that Lou should keep him either. 

 

omg what? Elias IS an automatic slam-dunk that we HAVE to resign... can you really imagine not having him on the PP, PK, SO ? we already lost Zach in those area and its already hurting.

 

We're also already not scoring missing 20% of our scoring from 2011-2012, we dont have guys who should have a major jump in their stats either and who knows if we'll be able to sign good free agents, thats a huge risk.

 

with the loss of Sykora and Parise its 20% of our scoring gone (and not replaced), with Elias added to that its 34%... + Clarkson thats 47%.... and like i said who knows if we'd be able to sign anyone who can produce as much as those guys and we'd probably have to overpay too and we'd be in a pretty bad position.


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#18 SterioDesign

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

if during a season a guy feels good about where he is and you know you want to keep him it's pure psychology. It's more likely that he will sign if the offer is fair cause he's on a high. Waiting at the end of the season is simply risky, if you end the season on a bad note players will still have a sour taste in his mouth and looking around at other teams having success and thinking, well i could be on that team if i want to... Thats pure logic. Why would you want to risk your player to think like that?

 

and the injury excuse is laughable lol a player can get injured at ANY time during the whole year either on the ice, in practice, at home or just training. It's such a lame excuse.

 

Look at guys like Richards and Carter in their time in Philly... do you really think they would have signed to that VERY FAIR cap hit on June 29th ? or even considering testing the market? it's way too risky for no good reasons at all. As simple as that, it's not worth the risk at ALL.


Edited by SterioDesign, 10 April 2013 - 09:37 AM.

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#19 PacificDevil

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:41 AM

Slightly off-topic, Chere finds time in the middle of scratching for a playoff spot to add more negativity for the team and for the fans - yeah thanks a lot, why don't you cover your stupid Rangers. TG would never be such an ass.

Elias is going to get similar offer as Marty got last year
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#20 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

Sterio, the problem is you don't know how long Elias is going to be Elias.  If he's willing to sign for one season, I would say yes, keep him.  If it's for two seasons, if it's for reasonable money, I would probably do it.  If someone else offers more, then sorry, I let him walk. 

 

Just saw your last post Sterio...I don't think you can be a successful GM and be driven by fear (which seems to be your approach here) of losing this guy or that guy.  At this point in Elias' career, he is clearly still a good and useful player...who is getting old.  As we've seen with the Rolstons, it can go south very quickly with the 35+ types.  Could Elias sign somewhere else for three years and be terrific?  Sure.  Would I be willing to gamble on it?  No. 

 

And though hockey is very much a team sport that doesn't come down to one guy, exactly how many playoff rounds have the Devils won with Elias since 2003?  I only point this out because, even with all of the playoff appearances since the last Cup win, it's not like Status Quo has been so awesome that the Devils should just lock themselves into it...especially for a guy who, once again, is soon to be in his late-30s.

 

Regardless of what some may think of him, I think Lou is still confident in his abilities, so I think he has a price in mind for Elias, and if Elias can get more, Lou believes the Devils will survive if they have to move on. 


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 10 April 2013 - 09:49 AM.

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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!




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