Jump to content

Photo

Elias about Lou's free agents approach


  • Please log in to reply
339 replies to this topic

#61 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,066 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:09 PM

Sterio, no one thinks Lou is perfect.  But I feel like the problem with picking him apart is that he's doing a job where not all of the moves are going to work out, and every season is not going to result in a championship, or being a realistic contender for one.  And keep it mind that much of his career was spent in the uncapped era, where teams were free to outspend everyone else if they so desired.  Lou was able to build successful teams AND do it in a fairly cost-effective manner, and saw his team beat others that were more star-studded and pricey, much to the chagrin of the fans of those teams. 

 

Like DD56 says, Lou can't afford to be as knee-jerk as fans on a message board want him to be.  That means he can be frustrating to watch, especially when it can feel like the team needs him to do something, and he's not doing it...that can make him appear patient to a fault...but even when I've been flustered with some of his moves, his team always seems to be competitive.  I'm a Met fan, and as a Met fan, I can tell you that is not something you want to take for granted.   


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#62 brodeur14301991

brodeur14301991

    Albany Devil

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 281 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:14 PM

I think this might go back to Lou's affiliation with the Yankees. Historically Steinbrenner never negotiated in season with players regarding contract extensions. I could be totally wrong but it could be a possible explanation as to why Lou operates like this. 


  • 0

#63 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,420 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

If Elias wants to leave, he'll go.  The reason why not to talk is simple - if Elias blows out his knee and the Devils are on the hook for a 3 year contract, that sucks.  I never hear these carpers talk about Tom Poti, who the Capitals signed early and who was basically a washout for most of his new contract.  Signing players early has its risks too.  Why did the Flyers sign Steve Mason early?  Signing Marc Savard early didn't work out too well for Boston.  And so on and so forth.

 

max:  I can't tell but I think you're obliquely referring to Zajac?  Yeah.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#64 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,652 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:22 PM

I think this might go back to Lou's affiliation with the Yankees. Historically Steinbrenner never negotiated in season with players regarding contract extensions. I could be totally wrong but it could be a possible explanation as to why Lou operates like this. 

 

Lou has said he based a lot of the way he runs the team of off the most successful franchises he knew of, naming the Yankees and Canadiens specifically. I can't remember where I read that. Maybe in Marty's book, but I'm not 100% sure.


  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#65 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,260 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

I am usually in lock-step with the way Lou runs the team.   History, for the most part have proven him right (Holik, Gomez, etc.).   

 

But, Elias, like Nieds and Marty are special cases.   Once Patty and Marty are gone, the whole Championship aura will be gone as well.


  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#66 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,652 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:28 PM

exactly but admit that its QUITE REFRESHING that J.J. Abrams is taking over Star Wars. For Apple and the Devils i think it's gonna be the same, the values will be kept but maybe both succeeders will give more freedom or liberties and that will be refreshing too.

 

I am excited to see what Abrams can do with Star Wars. I trust his abilities and I'm a fan of a lot of his work. But if it was some nobody taking over, or someone with a questionable line of movies on his resume, I'd be nervous.

 

Same with the Devils. When Lou leaves, my excitement will be based on who takes over. There will definitely be something refreshing about having something new. My assumption is the team will instantly be a little more fan-friendly and media-friendly, which will be nice. But I think fans will have to be realistic in their expectations. Grading some new guy on the Lou-curve (championship-or-bust, playoffs 18 of 20 seasons) will not be realistic.


  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#67 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

I am excited to see what Abrams can do with Star Wars. I trust his abilities and I'm a fan of a lot of his work. But if it was some nobody taking over, or someone with a questionable line of movies on his resume, I'd be nervous.

 

Same with the Devils. When Lou leaves, my excitement will be based on who takes over. There will definitely be something refreshing about having something new. My assumption is the team will instantly be a little more fan-friendly and media-friendly, which will be nice. But I think fans will have to be realistic in their expectations. Grading some new guy on the Lou-curve (championship-or-bust, playoffs 18 of 20 seasons) will not be realistic.

 

I just dont want Lou's son to be the GM if Lou retires.


  • 0

#68 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,066 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:34 PM

based on the eye test, I'd sign patty for three years, even if its fourth line duty the last year (if his ego would let it)

 

he looks plenty fast enough, can still skate like a magician, and is one of the top players on the team.

 

but it comes down to how much money he wants,

 

I'd do the same with zubrus, maybe push him to 4 years if the money is right

 

dont know what to make of clarkson lol

 

Not knocking you, but we have some fans bitching about how they want the Devils to be younger and faster, and here is a proposal to sign a 37-year-old to three more seasons, and a 35-year-old (Zubrus will be 35 in June) to as many as four years. 

 

Unless both parties are VERY reasonable in wanting to stay here in both money and term (assuming they want to), moving on need not be the worst thing in the world.  It's not like the Devils have been winning a slew of championships WITH these guys the past several years.  People bitch about status quo, but then don't want to lose the guys who have been part of the status quo. 


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#69 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:36 PM

If Elias wants to leave, he'll go.  The reason why not to talk is simple - if Elias blows out his knee and the Devils are on the hook for a 3 year contract, that sucks.  I never hear these carpers talk about Tom Poti, who the Capitals signed early and who was basically a washout for most of his new contract.  Signing players early has its risks too.  Why did the Flyers sign Steve Mason early?  Signing Marc Savard early didn't work out too well for Boston.  And so on and so forth.

 

max:  I can't tell but I think you're obliquely referring to Zajac?  Yeah.

 

Yep.   He absolutely had to sign Zajac early and did.    And technically he didn't break his rule, Zajac was signed before the puck was dropped, as was Martin.   But, I could see why it would rub another UFA the wrong way.    Of course now he's probably left wondering about Zajac.   LOL.   I don't think it's that big of a deal, almost everyone has had a bad season, but we'll see next year.


  • 0

#70 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,677 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:37 PM

Sterio, no one thinks Lou is perfect.  But I feel like the problem with picking him apart is that he's doing a job where not all of the moves are going to work out, and every season is not going to result in a championship, or being a realistic contender for one.  And keep it mind that much of his career was spent in the uncapped era, where teams were free to outspend everyone else if they so desired.  Lou was able to build successful teams AND do it in a fairly cost-effective manner, and saw his team beat others that were more star-studded and pricey, much to the chagrin of the fans of those teams. 

 

Like DD56 says, Lou can't afford to be as knee-jerk as fans on a message board want him to be.  That means he can be frustrating to watch, especially when it can feel like the team needs him to do something, and he's not doing it...that can make him appear patient to a fault...but even when I've been flustered with some of his moves, his team always seems to be competitive.  I'm a Met fan, and as a Met fan, I can tell you that is not something you want to take for granted.   

 

it's not really about moves that work out or not. It's about some of his ways or mentality. Signing Rolston was not a bad idea, he didnt turned out well but thats not on Lou. Signing Salvador on the other hand is a major mistake for example.

 

But stuff like... refusing to talk contract during season. Thats absolutely useless and dumb. It's putting yourself in a corner and throwing leverage out of the window. 


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#71 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:40 PM

Honestly, though, the guy they really should be breaking this precedent on is Loktionov.    He probably has the most leverage of everyone.   Patty's old and has a little kid, Clarkson is loyal, and Zubrus, meh.    He's played well enough to get the  KHL GM's to notice him and he hits the bill of the guy they like to sign, the youngish player caught in the qualifier game with upside.


  • 0

#72 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,066 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

I am excited to see what Abrams can do with Star Wars. I trust his abilities and I'm a fan of a lot of his work. But if it was some nobody taking over, or someone with a questionable line of movies on his resume, I'd be nervous.

 

Same with the Devils. When Lou leaves, my excitement will be based on who takes over. There will definitely be something refreshing about having something new. My assumption is the team will instantly be a little more fan-friendly and media-friendly, which will be nice. But I think fans will have to be realistic in their expectations. Grading some new guy on the Lou-curve (championship-or-bust, playoffs 18 of 20 seasons) will not be realistic.

 

Yeah, same here, as far as Lou goes.  Initially I will be excited/curious to see what someone new will bring to the table.  This is going to be a REALLY sh!tty comparison, but there was a time no one could picture Van Halen without David Lee Roth.  But then Sammy Hagar did just fine...he was clearly different than Roth, and not everyone liked Hagar as much as Roth, but the band played on and was still very successful, albeit in a different way.

 

Of course, if the next GM turns out to be Gary Charone...


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 10 April 2013 - 01:42 PM.

  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#73 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,677 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:43 PM

Honestly, though, the guy they really should be breaking this precedent on is Loktionov.    He probably has the most leverage of everyone.   Patty's old and has a little kid, Clarkson is loyal, and Zubrus, meh.    He's played well enough to get the  KHL GM's to notice him and he hits the bill of the guy they like to sign, the youngish player caught in the qualifier game with upside.

 

remember hearing how Zach was loyal too... 

 

plus Clarkson statement about free agency and the leafs the other kinda made me nervous. Cant remember exactly what it was but it sounded a lot like the typical bla bla bla to change subject and that his agent were dealing with that. Just like Zach was saying.


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#74 MantaRay

MantaRay

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,260 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:46 PM

Up until 2009 MacLean was often regarded as the best forward in Devil's history and look at the kind of treatment he got.

 

Maclean, brought that on himself.  He didn't like the PK and wanted more PP time.   He was banished to SJ for breaking from the team first mode.  Patty is a loyal solider who has sacrificed gaudy stats for winning as part of a team.   Four trips to the Finals for him.


  • 0
I was wrong to ever doubt the powers of Lou Lamoriello.
IN LOU WE TRUST @Manta04


Posted Image

#75 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 01:49 PM

Maclean, brought that on himself.  He didn't like the PK and wanted more PP time.   He was banished to SJ for breaking from the team first mode.  Patty is a loyal solider who has sacrificed gaudy stats for winning as part of a team.   Four trips to the Finals for him.

 

I think he was referring to the coaching stint of doom.


  • 0

#76 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,420 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:02 PM

Yep.   He absolutely had to sign Zajac early and did.    And technically he didn't break his rule, Zajac was signed before the puck was dropped, as was Martin.   But, I could see why it would rub another UFA the wrong way.    Of course now he's probably left wondering about Zajac.   LOL.   I don't think it's that big of a deal, almost everyone has had a bad season, but we'll see next year.

 

At worst he's signed a Selke-level center to too big a contract.  If you think about Madden's deal which was reduced with the rollback to 2.9 on a 39 million salary cap, this is 5.75 on a 64M salary cap that figures to climb at the same rate.

 

If it's about money and ego, Elias can leave.  The Devils cannot afford to make mistakes of the Marc Savard ilk.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#77 EdgeControl

EdgeControl

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,313 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

Not knocking you, but we have some fans bitching about how they want the Devils to be younger and faster, and here is a proposal to sign a 37-year-old to three more seasons, and a 35-year-old (Zubrus will be 35 in June) to as many as four years. 

 

Unless both parties are VERY reasonable in wanting to stay here in both money and term (assuming they want to), moving on need not be the worst thing in the world.  It's not like the Devils have been winning a slew of championships WITH these guys the past several years.  People bitch about status quo, but then don't want to lose the guys who have been part of the status quo. 

No doubt the money is the issue. to get over 2 years the pricing needs to be discounted! I actually think Zubrus is a solid skater and stick handler, not just a forechecking monster. so even if his physical play drops off , he can still provide value on the ice.  if they want more than 2nd line / third line money for more than 2 years then go see it you can get it somewhere.


  • 0

#78 Devilsfan118

Devilsfan118

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,797 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

I'll laugh/rage pretty hard if Lou's policy results in him hopping the river to NY, like he almost did last time he was a UFA
  • 0

believe-ll.jpg

Anyone who says, ‘You played in that New York area,’ I say, ‘No, I played in New Jersey.’ - Ken Daneyko


#79 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:19 PM

This almost sounds like trolling.

 

Just remember that younger, newer, and different doesn't always equal better.  You're used to seeing your team make the playoffs almost every single year.  Not a lot of fans can say that.  And even though the Devils have had their share of first-round hiccups (when they were high-seeded favorites), they've been to five SCF since '95.  Like DD56 says...careful what you wish for. 

 

#3, #4, #27, #30

 

Yes Lou was indirectly responsible for us drafting/acquiring these guys, but they are the heart of what made us a great team from 95-03......

 

Since then we had 1 great playoff run...in nearly 10 seasons


  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#80 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,420 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

I'll laugh/rage pretty hard if Lou's policy results in him hopping the river to NY, like he almost did last time he was a UFA

 

Only way this happens is if the Rangers amnesty buyout Richards, which I don't think they're likely to do this year (they may do it next year).  The Rangers have to re-sign Stepan, Hagelin, and McDonagh (if these guys come in below $8M i'll be shocked), then the year after that they have Callahan, Lundqvist, Girardi, and Stralman UFA.  They could fit Elias in but it would be awfully tough at the price he's likely to want.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users