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It is a retool not a rebuild


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#121 Triumph

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

The Devils can use 2 Amnesty Buyouts between this summer and next summer. Maybe they give Anton one more year or maybe they don't. In my opinion, if they are really as cash-strapped as everyone's trying to make out, they'd probably do it this summer. As far as his play is concerned, I can't speak to what Lou or Deboer think of his level of play, but I will say that from where I sit in watching him play he came off as our worst defenseman this year and he's the highest paid one to boot.

 

Salvador was in my view and by the numbers far worse.


If the Devils are cash-strapped, they will not use an amnesty buyout.  I don't think they are, though.


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#122 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

Salvador was in my view and by the numbers far worse.


If the Devils are cash-strapped, they will not use an amnesty buyout.  I don't think they are, though.

 

Salvador is the captain of the team and management is up his arse for whatever reason. As far as cash strapped, the amnesty buyout helps you with cash right now when you can put in a cheap replacement for an expensive player. I just explained how that is the case. As far as whether young defensemen pan out, Volchenkov averaged 16 minutes a game this year. If we can't find one of either Harrold, Gelinas, Urbom, or Merrill to replace those 16 minutes at least as adequately as Volchenkov played (if not better) then our vaunted defensive prospect depth is the most highly overrated asset in the league.

 

Mind you, Salvador averaged 21 minutes a game. Odds are that if he was out there that much more he was seeing harder competition as you like to put it. He might have looked worse for wear against the top lines in the game. I don't know this for sure because I don't delve into the advanced statistics.


Edited by NewarkDevil5, 02 May 2013 - 12:23 PM.

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#123 ATLL765

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

Your second assumption is a large one, and is why I don't think he will be bought out.  I don't think the Devils think that, and I don't think they really have reason to think that.  He'll play his 60 games next year and we'll see where things stand after that.  If his play really has fallen off, then he'll definitely be a candidate for a buyout.  Young defensemen don't always pan out, and Volchenkov is basically a lock to get injured at some point, so they can get a look at his ostensible replacement then.

Just like what happened this year when guys got hurt, we got to see, oh wait, that's right, we had 8 d-men and didn't see any new faces until the last few games. So unless we DON'T resign either of Zid or Harrold, which would be a mistake in my eyes, we'll still have 7 defenseman. Imo, I don't see the risk in dumping him and keeping Harrold to play his spot if Urbom/Gelinas/Merrill can't take hold of it. Then if need be, we can pick up a vet as a 7th if none of the kids can handle that responsibility. I don't see how this blows up in our face.


Edited by ATLL765, 02 May 2013 - 12:47 PM.

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#124 Triumph

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:01 PM

Salvador is the captain of the team and management is up his arse for whatever reason. As far as cash strapped, the amnesty buyout helps you with cash right now when you can put in a cheap replacement for an expensive player. I just explained how that is the case. As far as whether young defensemen pan out, Volchenkov averaged 16 minutes a game this year. If we can't find one of either Harrold, Gelinas, Urbom, or Merrill to replace those 16 minutes at least as adequately as Volchenkov played (if not better) then our vaunted defensive prospect depth is the most highly overrated asset in the league.

 

Mind you, Salvador averaged 21 minutes a game. Odds are that if he was out there that much more he was seeing harder competition as you like to put it. He might have looked worse for wear against the top lines in the game. I don't know this for sure because I don't delve into the advanced statistics.

 

If the Devils are cash-strapped, they can trade players.  They can pick up parts of contracts of players they deal.  And, most importantly, if they're cash strapped, there is zero reason to use a compliance buyout on Volchenkov when a regular one does just fine.

 

Volchenkov played 16 minutes, and his time at even strength isn't hard to replace.  His time on the PK is hard to replace.

 

Just like what happened this year when guys got hurt, we got to see, oh wait, that's right, we had 8 d-men and didn't see any new faces until the last few games. So unless we DON'T resign either of Zid or Harrold, which would be a mistake in my eyes, we'll still have 7 defenseman. Imo, I don't see the risk in dumping him and keeping Harrold to play his spot if Urbom/Gelinas/Merrill can't take hold of it. Then if need be, we can pick up a vet as a 7th if none of the kids can handle that responsibility. I don't see how this blows up in our face.

 

Go back and look at how many D teams use - that NJ had to use injury replacements eventually is not surprising, especially considering how injury-prone some of these older D are.  The Devils are going to make some moves with their D, but I don't think eating a bunch of money on Volchenkov right away is smarter than dealing Fayne or Tallinder and seeing what you can get for them.  The Devils don't have anyone in their system like Volchenkov, I wouldn't be surprised if he lasts 2 more years and NJ uses a regular buyout on him for that 6th year.


Edited by Triumph, 02 May 2013 - 01:02 PM.

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#125 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:23 PM

If the Devils are cash-strapped, they can trade players.  They can pick up parts of contracts of players they deal.  And, most importantly, if they're cash strapped, there is zero reason to use a compliance buyout on Volchenkov when a regular one does just fine.

 

Volchenkov played 16 minutes, and his time at even strength isn't hard to replace.  His time on the PK is hard to replace.

 

 

Go back and look at how many D teams use - that NJ had to use injury replacements eventually is not surprising, especially considering how injury-prone some of these older D are.  The Devils are going to make some moves with their D, but I don't think eating a bunch of money on Volchenkov right away is smarter than dealing Fayne or Tallinder and seeing what you can get for them.  The Devils don't have anyone in their system like Volchenkov, I wouldn't be surprised if he lasts 2 more years and NJ uses a regular buyout on him for that 6th year.

 

Volchenkov has an NTC so you can't trade him without his permission. He's the highest paid defenseman on the team and probably the worst so no one will be inclined to trade for him even if you could trade him. As for whether they use an Amnesty Buyout or a regular one, that's a valid point and you're probably right. They'd probably just use a regular buyout on him because he doesn't have an over 35 contract. If that is the case then perhaps you'll wind up seeing the Devils use it on Salvador but I highly doubt it because I think the team values Salvador very highly even still.

 

As far as the Devils not having anyone in their system like Volchenkov, I don't necessarily think that a Volchenkov style of defenseman is even still relevant given the changes that the NHL has undergone since the 2005 lockout. Having defensemen that play with a snarl is important, but they also need to be able to keep up with the play and Volchenkov has seemed to have a harder and harder time keeping up with the play. It seems to me that DeBoer has been more and more reluctant to use him in more and more situations and that has played itself out in his icetime going down by a full 2 minutes on average from last season to this one. He has the lowest average ice time of any defenseman on the team, including Peter Harrold and Adam Larsson. All this for a guy who is the highest paid defenseman on the team.


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#126 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:52 PM

bottom line and even though i don't like them, we can can look at what MTL did last summer... got a nice top pick, brought up kids, cleaned up the team from the distraction and sat the ones remaining and whoever deserved to play was playing. It was really refreshing and they got good results. They overachieved and got really lucky all season long but still. They also stacked their picks in the last few years (obviously its easy when you're missing the playoffs for sure on the trade deadline.) But they have TONS of good prospects coming and they have 3 2nd round picks this year.

 

I dont think NJ had "locker room problems" like MTL had but its easy to point out who's dragging us down and who's absolutely expendable and costing too much.


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#127 DH26

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:31 PM

bottom line and even though i don't like them, we can can look at what MTL did last summer... got a nice top pick, brought up kids, cleaned up the team from the distraction and sat the ones remaining and whoever deserved to play was playing. It was really refreshing and they got good results. They overachieved and got really lucky all season long but still. They also stacked their picks in the last few years (obviously its easy when you're missing the playoffs for sure on the trade deadline.) But they have TONS of good prospects coming and they have 3 2nd round picks this year.

 

I dont think NJ had "locker room problems" like MTL had but its easy to point out who's dragging us down and who's absolutely expendable and costing too much.

 

Who do you propose we bring up? We can't do something like bring up 3 rookie D-men and there's not even a need to bring up more than 1 esp w/ being stuck w/ Salvador. The forward we presumably will get won't be as highly touted as Galchenyuk and besides him, unless Boucher keeps lighting the world on fire, I dunno how we're really gonna change anything that much outside of FAs. THe immediate answer doesn't seem to be from within so it might take awhile. Plus they have Carey Price which blows Brodeur away at this point so that helps


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#128 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:02 PM

Who do you propose we bring up? We can't do something like bring up 3 rookie D-men and there's not even a need to bring up more than 1 esp w/ being stuck w/ Salvador. The forward we presumably will get won't be as highly touted as Galchenyuk and besides him, unless Boucher keeps lighting the world on fire, I dunno how we're really gonna change anything that much outside of FAs. THe immediate answer doesn't seem to be from within so it might take awhile. Plus they have Carey Price which blows Brodeur away at this point so that helps


I was not really that in the way of trying to do the same exact thing both team are not structured the same way but more in the way of getting rid of the crap and replacing it with something cheaper with more energy kinda. We dont need 8 average D when some of our kids can be called up and get experience and probly do a dcent job. Were gonna have to break them in eventually, its better to do it now gradually.

We also dont need 2 fvcking goon who can barely play whos gonna play 3 minutes in a game and bring down that poor center. Bring up guys like anderson to give them a little appreciation if they play well in the ahl or to give them a little exprience.
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#129 Triumph

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:52 PM

I was not really that in the way of trying to do the same exact thing both team are not structured the same way but more in the way of getting rid of the crap and replacing it with something cheaper with more energy kinda. We dont need 8 average D when some of our kids can be called up and get experience and probly do a dcent job. Were gonna have to break them in eventually, its better to do it now gradually.

 

'Probably' doing a decent job isn't doing a decent job.  I agree that there should be one spot open in training camp for one of Gelinas, Urbom, or Merrill.  Salvador should at least be moved down in the rotation.  But I don't think one of these guys outperform Tallinder or Fayne or whoever ends up going.

 

 

We also dont need 2 fvcking goon who can barely play whos gonna play 3 minutes in a game and bring down that poor center. Bring up guys like anderson to give them a little appreciation if they play well in the ahl or to give them a little exprience.

 

The Devils did this in exactly 1 game this year.  It's not a problem at all.


Edited by Triumph, 02 May 2013 - 11:56 PM.

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#130 SterioDesign

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:31 PM

'Probably' doing a decent job isn't doing a decent job.  I agree that there should be one spot open in training camp for one of Gelinas, Urbom, or Merrill.  Salvador should at least be moved down in the rotation.  But I don't think one of these guys outperform Tallinder or Fayne or whoever ends up going.

 

 

 

The Devils did this in exactly 1 game this year.  It's not a problem at all.

 

Green - Larsson

Tallinder - Fayne

Harrold - Zids

(Gelinas-Merril-Urbom, Nurse? who knows)

 

would be perfect and if you REALLY want 8 D you keep 2 rookies and you rotate them so they are not both playing at the same time at worst. An extra year of Zids could help for the offence, he's bringing something no other dman on our roster is bringing and he's a good stop gap for another kid.

 

But for the money Salvador and Volch are absolutely useless, we didnt see a difference when they were there or not. Actually we played better when they werent there. I know Salvador will be there next season of course, terrible terrible move by Lou there.

 

and the goon thing, why even sign 2 and waste a contract ? we have 3 goons in the organization what the fvck is the point


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#131 Lateralous

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 12:41 PM

Green - Larsson
Tallinder - Fayne
Harrold - Zids
(Gelinas-Merril-Urbom, Nurse? who knows)
 
and the goon thing, why even sign 2 and waste a contract ? we have 3 goons in the organization what the fvck is the point


In theory, I like that lineup a lot because I think Tallider is a better overall player than either Salvador or Volch but that lineup would get tossed around, especially if we limit the goons up front and don't overpay for Clarkson. We're going to need some muscle somewhere until we develop a better overall defenseman that also has a mean streak (Merrill?)
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#132 SterioDesign

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:29 PM

In theory, I like that lineup a lot because I think Tallider is a better overall player than either Salvador or Volch but that lineup would get tossed around, especially if we limit the goons up front and don't overpay for Clarkson. We're going to need some muscle somewhere until we develop a better overall defenseman that also has a mean streak (Merrill?)

 

we could certainly find a cheaper aggressive dman somewhere. A-Train is terrible overpaid for what he's bringing


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#133 GoArmySports

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

Just imagine if Brodeur retired after next season and Lundqvist signed with us?

 

Marty could be his goal coach. :giggle:


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#134 DH26

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:06 PM

Just imagine if Brodeur retired after next season and Lundqvist signed with us?

 

Marty could be his goal coach. :giggle:

 

pay a 30 something goalie 7+ mil a year for years no thanks 


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#135 Devilsfan118

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

Signing the Queen next year would be the ultimate revenge move for all the players they've poached over the years.

It's a pipe dream though, pretty much guaranteed he stays in NY.
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#136 njd3b1ink

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

Signing the Queen next year would be the ultimate revenge move for all the players they've poached over the years.

It's a pipe dream though, pretty much guaranteed he stays in NY.

It's probably a pipe dream that he comes here, but in all honesty he should probably leave the rangers. I actually wouldn't be surprised if he at least entertained offers. With the exception of last season where they won all the time, every season he been somewhat frustrating for him. You can tell on his post game interviews where he's frustrated and always says his team needs to get more than 2 goals. If he went to a team that can actually score he would probably win a cup.
I think the rangers could be a team that could score, but that won't happen until they get a new coach. Tortorella is the wrong coach for that team.

Edited by njd3b1ink, 05 May 2013 - 08:30 AM.

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#137 DJ Eco

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:38 PM

Signing the Queen next year would be the ultimate revenge move for all the players they've poached over the years.

It's a pipe dream though, pretty much guaranteed he stays in NY.

 

Not at all... How is he guaranteed to stay in NY? They're swallowed up in way too many heft long-term deals.

 

A first or second round exit this year by New York would be enough for me to guarantee that he goes to a contender next year. It could be a Chicago or even a Pittsburgh. My money's more on him leaving the Rangers than staying. What has that organization done for him since he started playing for them? Any level of success or high level of play they've ever achieved has been directly because of him and how he plays at any given point in time. The 1-0 overtime loss on Sunday is like the microcosm of his career with the Rangers. They've really done nothing to help him get any inkling of success. However, he's poured his heart and soul into this team for several years. Like njd3b1ink, his career has been characterized by nothing but disappointment year after year.


Edited by DJ Eco, 06 May 2013 - 01:43 PM.

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#138 sundstrom

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

i would be shocked if he left NY under any circumstances.


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#139 Marshall

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:05 PM

I don't think some of your understand how incredibly loyal Henrik is. He is never leaving Manhattan (barring a trade ofc).


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#140 Vic Rattlehead18

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:23 PM

I fully believe lundqvist is leaving once his contract is up. He wants to win. He will go elsewhere.


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