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#41 Triumph

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:50 AM

I have a conversation I'd like to bring up, but don't really think it deserves a new thread, but it has to do with the direction the team is traveling, so this seems like a good spot to spark it.

Basically, I was thinking about defensemen, ours, and others around the league, specifically the Rangers. What I started thinking at first, is that their D-Core is a lot better, but as I continued thinking about it, I got a few different ideas. All of them basically had to do with how expendable our D Men were.

I don't think it's a secret we don't have super stars along the blue line anymore. (Keep in mind this isn't a bash our defense idea) but does PDBs system not call for the star,stay at home D Men we were used to in the Jacques, trap days? If so, what was the order of events? Did Lou want to put more an emphasis on forward play, and take the team in that direction? Or maybe PDB came in, realizing our Stevens,Nieds and Dano days are long gone, and work with what he had?

So I want to know what you guys think, do you think it's just a matter of time before we see a D Core of Larsson,Fayne,Gelinas, Urbom and Merrill before we return to playing lockdown D? Or are we a franchise that now looks to bring in scores, to fit our aggressive forechecking system?

Please, fire away because these thoughts have been swirling around my head and I'm eager to see how you guys feel

 

The Rangers D corps is not better than the Devils.  McDonagh is definitely better than anyone the Devils run out there.  Then you've got Girardi, who is average.  When he was put with Marc Staal, he was eaten alive 2 years ago.  McDonagh shows up and all of the sudden Girardi is a Norris-trophy winner?  No.  He's a nice player to have, but he's no better than Andy Greene.  Del Zotto makes some nice offensive plays but gives it all back on the back end - he's reaching a point where if he doesn't get better, he's going to be one of these Jack Johnson types who is paid like a top D man but is not.  Stralman did very well with soft minutes, part of me is upset that NJ couldn't sign him 2 seasons ago.  Staal's career is on hold and even before that, while he's got the name of some great players, and while he's a fine stay-at-home D, he was never dominant like the media made him out to be.

 

I guess though the presence of Salvador makes NJ worse than the Rangers because they don't quite have someone that bad eating up top minutes.

 

And the Rangers' D depth is atrocious.  NJ credibly went 8 deep this year, Steve Eminger is awful.


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#42 DJ Eco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:29 PM

Nice piece by Todd Cordell about the availability of Burmistrov:

 

http://www.hockeybuz...02#.UZz5kqXpzlI


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#43 DJ Eco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:39 PM

The Rangers D corps is not better than the Devils.  McDonagh is definitely better than anyone the Devils run out there.  Then you've got Girardi, who is average.  When he was put with Marc Staal, he was eaten alive 2 years ago.  McDonagh shows up and all of the sudden Girardi is a Norris-trophy winner?  No.  He's a nice player to have, but he's no better than Andy Greene.  Del Zotto makes some nice offensive plays but gives it all back on the back end - he's reaching a point where if he doesn't get better, he's going to be one of these Jack Johnson types who is paid like a top D man but is not.  Stralman did very well with soft minutes, part of me is upset that NJ couldn't sign him 2 seasons ago.  Staal's career is on hold and even before that, while he's got the name of some great players, and while he's a fine stay-at-home D, he was never dominant like the media made him out to be.

 

I guess though the presence of Salvador makes NJ worse than the Rangers because they don't quite have someone that bad eating up top minutes.

 

And the Rangers' D depth is atrocious.  NJ credibly went 8 deep this year, Steve Eminger is awful.

 

Agree on all counts. Girardi has looked very human this offseason, as opposed to last when everyone was high on praising him. If anything, almost all of the goals in Boston-NY Game 2 were while he was on the ice I think. In most cases, they were indirectly caused by him doing what Tortorella told him to do: lying down on the ice to block shots. The pucks bounced off him (or players skated around him), and beat Lundqvist. His defensive style is easy to figure out, he's a 1-dimensional player, an embodiment of Tortorella's "system", or lack thereof...


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#44 Devils731

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

Nice piece by Todd Cordell about the availability of Burmistrov:

 

http://www.hockeybuz...02#.UZz5kqXpzlI

 

It'd be interesting to see what Atlanta will want for Burmistrov.  Atlanta is in a bad spot, I think, they have a player saying he wants out who is a former 8th overall pick but who hasn't lit it up at any level yet.  I imagine that is going to make teams wary of forking over a ton of value for Burmistrov so I think Atlanta is going to end up getting 75 cents on the dollar.


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#45 Daniel

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:49 PM

It'd be interesting to see what Atlanta will want for Burmistrov.  Atlanta is in a bad spot, I think, they have a player saying he wants out who is a former 8th overall pick but who hasn't lit it up at any level yet.  I imagine that is going to make teams wary of forking over a ton of value for Burmistrov so I think Atlanta is going to end up getting 75 cents on the dollar.

 

Do you intentionally refer to them as Atlanta for some reason?


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#46 Devils731

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:12 PM

Do you intentionally refer to them as Atlanta for some reason?

 

Crap, no, I was thinking back to when Burmistrov was drafted and knew it was the same team. :lol:


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#47 Triumph

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:26 PM

The other problem is that you have to get Burmistrov's name on a contract else he could just run to the KHL if he doesn't like what his new team is offering.  Since NJ already got the ersatz Burmistrov in Loktionov there should be no interest there but Burmistrov reminds me of Mikhail Grabovski - just a solid player to have, doesn't do anything great but does everything well.


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#48 CarpathianForest

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:16 PM

Make a three way deal and land MA Fleury.


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#49 cgb6397

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

It's a matter of time. PDB has been here two years and there's been 0 turnover in the d corps aside from Foster coming and going. My guess is the team has wanted to make over the defense from within for years and as such have been drafting good defenseman for a while and now have a few stockpiled.
I, for one, cannot wait to see our defense become more mobile. We only have Green, Larsson and Zid as decent PMD, Harrold is ok, Fayne is mobile, but doesn't have too great a shot and isn't a fantastic passer either. In the NHL today, your whole defense needs to be agile and able to add to the offense at all times. We don't need tons of Drew Doughty's, but I think if we can graduate half of our high level d prospects to the NHL in the next 5 years, we'll be looking pretty good on D.


So would you say once we have our prospects up, we'll go to being a trap team? Or will we keep the up tempo forecheck and let our D Men take chances and generate offense?
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#50 DH26

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:45 PM

Make a three way deal and land MA Fleury.

 

Do you wanna never have an awful goalie in the playoffs for 5 million? Me neither. Aside from the year they lost to DET in the finals, he's been average to ECHL level in the playoffs and nothing more. Unless they take Salvador back, no 


Edited by DH26, 22 May 2013 - 11:45 PM.

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#51 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:48 PM

Make a three way deal and land MA Fleury.

 

Because this fanbase doesn't beat up the goalies enough already...


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#52 Triumph

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:24 AM

Because this fanbase doesn't beat up the goalies enough already...

 

It actually doesn't, considering the segment of the fanbase that think Brodeur's still a capable starter.

 

I'd take M.A. Fleury if Pittsburgh picked up a bunch of his contract, which I don't think they would do.


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#53 Daniel

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

Do you wanna never have an awful goalie in the playoffs for 5 million? Me neither. Aside from the year they lost to DET in the finals, he's been average to ECHL level in the playoffs and nothing more. Unless they take Salvador back, no 

 

This is one of those instances where I'm totally on board with the stat types that will tell you that playoff performance isn't much of an indicator of anything.  This is the sort of thinking that leads teams to give up on good goalies, but more often overpay for bad ones.

 

To be honest, I can't tell you all that much about MAF, or really any other goalie that doesn't play locally.  However, if his recent whole body of work, including the regular season, is good, that's what you should go on.


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#54 njdevsftw

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

Fleury sucks. I'd barely consider taking him for free, let alone give up assets for him.

Edited by njdevsftw, 23 May 2013 - 11:57 AM.

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#55 ATLL765

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:32 PM

So would you say once we have our prospects up, we'll go to being a trap team? Or will we keep the up tempo forecheck and let our D Men take chances and generate offense?

I'm hoping it's the former, since I find it to be a style fitting to the team, hard working, would only work if everyone is playing the system right. It displays the quintessential Devils discipline, which makes our team greater than the sum of it's parts. I think that's the idea though. All the top tier d prospects we have, Severson, Urbom, Merrill, Gelinas, seem like well rounded guys who will be able to chip in on offense while maintaining defensive responsibilities, with Gelinas probably being the biggest ? for his defensive play, though Severson is still in juniors, but had a pretty good year and it appears many are thinking he was a real steal for us. All those guys seem to be the types that can play in all 3 zones, so I'm hoping we can remake our defensive corps from the inside and have all 6 guys be mobile, if not big point producers.


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#56 CarpathianForest

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:10 PM

Fleury is still young enough and talented enough to redeem himself with another club. Just as much as some of the goals on Marty aren't all his doing, Pittsburgh hasn't exactly been home to defensive dynamos.


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#57 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:43 PM

It actually doesn't, considering the segment of the fanbase that think Brodeur's still a capable starter.

 

I'd take M.A. Fleury if Pittsburgh picked up a bunch of his contract, which I don't think they would do.

 

I know contrarianism is where it's at, but come on. Pretty much everyone here knows Brodeur is done as a starter, and that Moose can't even be a reliable back up. Sure, there's a few that think he should still play 70 games, but they are definitely in the minority by this point. I'd say most of us are in agreement that Marty needs to end it after this contract. I was hoping he'd ride off into the sunset after the finals run. I felt it'd be a good time to go out, but oh well. I guess if someone offers you 9 million bucks for 2 years, you take it.

 

When I say people ride the goalies here, I'm referring to the people who call a goal on a rebound of a 3 on 0 a 'softy'.


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#58 DH26

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:34 PM

I know contrarianism is where it's at, but come on. Pretty much everyone here knows Brodeur is done as a starter, and that Moose can't even be a reliable back up. Sure, there's a few that think he should still play 70 games, but they are definitely in the minority by this point. I'd say most of us are in agreement that Marty needs to end it after this contract. I was hoping he'd ride off into the sunset after the finals run. I felt it'd be a good time to go out, but oh well. I guess if someone offers you 9 million bucks for 2 years, you take it.

 

When I say people ride the goalies here, I'm referring to the people who call a goal on a rebound of a 3 on 0 a 'softy'.

 

I think it's just that we're resigned to him being the starter till he's gone and retired dumb as it is so that's why we don't complain that much about him as compared to Salvador who's had one good run. I don't even bother complaining about Brodeur as much as I wish they'd get someone else. 

 

I think it's hard to know what we'd do since we've never really had an underrated goalie to beat up on. Like the Leafs fans w/ Reimer they beat him up a lot (at least the dumb ones) while the smart fans like the PPP guys defended him and wanted to die when the team wanted Kipper's awful ass to start. We haven't had that so who knows how we'd react compared to other fans 


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#59 Brandon

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:04 AM

1. Sean Monahan
2. Elias, Clarkson, Zubrus, Zidlicky, Harrold
3. Pierre-Marc Bouchard or Nathan Horton
4. Volchenkov and Tallinder

There's a lot of UFAs out there that I like, obviously Derek Roy, Nathan Horton, and Iginla are all great, but looking at some other lower cost players, I could see Lou maybe looking into some players like Nik Antropov (especially if one of Clarkson or Zubrus leave) and Pierre-Marc Bouchard (maybe a lower cost Top 6 solution?).
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#60 vadvlfan

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 11:19 PM



1.) C. Lazar- @ 14th (for a 4th round pick-Columbus) "longshot" -Robert Hagg
2.) Resign -elias, zubie, hopefully clarkie
3.) Bozak, Dupuis ?
4.) Volchenkov (if anyone at all)
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