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Zidlicky close to re-signing?


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#41 Exit56

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:09 PM

threads like this are a big reason I spend more time reading devils stuff on twitter than on this forum these days...


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#42 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:27 PM

To be fair to Sterio, you are compartamentalzing things a bit.  You're looking at goals and shooting percentage, which don't tell the whole story so far as defenseman's offensive production.  (Although I guess I shouldn't blame you since Sterio was talking about defensemen with "cannons").  While I can't give you a game by game analysis, Chara or any other defenseman's ability to shoot will utlmately result in goals, whether it's by virtue of putting it in off a rebound, or having a defender having to account for someone who can shoot the puck resulting in opportunities for other players.  Chara's high point total and plus/minus would be an indication of this.   Whatever metric you want to use though, there can be no doubt that Chara is a big help to an offense, whether on the powerplay, even strength or both.

 

And of course Sterio is not saying that he'll take a defenseman with a good shot that can't play defense at all.  (You seemed to jump all over him for mentioning Souray, but it didn't really have much to do with anything).  If anything, you could fault him for just stating the obvious . . . wouldn't it be great if we had a defenseman like Chara, Karlsson, Pietragelo and Doughty. 

 

Thank you so much Daniel for simply understanding what i said, you got it. So damn refreshing. All i said is that we dont have "canons" thats it, thats all. and for pointing out the general meaning of my post. almost every damn time i post something with a few examples just to put a context (obviously theres rarely perfect matches when youre comparing stuff) guys like him will jump on those examples to throw off my point with stats and sh!t and ignoring the whole meaning. i really didnt need to get thrown stats at and nitpicking a few of the names i threw out names i put there for simple examples. 

 

edit: and by canon i meant hard shots from guys who can get the puck through to the net. which like you said can create rebounds or offence one way or the other and exactly shooting percentage doesnt tell you the whole story at all.


Edited by SterioDesign, 14 May 2013 - 12:43 PM.

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#43 Triumph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:22 PM

To be fair to Sterio, you are compartamentalzing things a bit.  You're looking at goals and shooting percentage, which don't tell the whole story so far as defenseman's offensive production.  (Although I guess I shouldn't blame you since Sterio was talking about defensemen with "cannons").  While I can't give you a game by game analysis, Chara or any other defenseman's ability to shoot will utlmately result in goals, whether it's by virtue of putting it in off a rebound, or having a defender having to account for someone who can shoot the puck resulting in opportunities for other players.  Chara's high point total and plus/minus would be an indication of this.   Whatever metric you want to use though, there can be no doubt that Chara is a big help to an offense, whether on the powerplay, even strength or both.

 

And of course Sterio is not saying that he'll take a defenseman with a good shot that can't play defense at all.  (You seemed to jump all over him for mentioning Souray, but it didn't really have much to do with anything).  If anything, you could fault him for just stating the obvious . . . wouldn't it be great if we had a defenseman like Chara, Karlsson, Pietragelo and Doughty. 

 

Which is an empty statement.  You're both right, I was unfair, but we're talking about the context of bringing back Marek Zidlicky, which having a Norris-level defenseman who's great in all 3 zones has very little to do with.  Now if you're going to compare Zidlicky to the type of guys who are available - your Boychuk and Souray types - now you've got a stew going.  That's an actual question and there are merits to each type of player.  But Sterio has slammed the Devils for having guys who just shoot the puck at the net without thinking, now he wants Johnny Boychuk, the poster child for that?  It's just an odd line of thinking. 

 

I don't think Chara helps a power play by the way.  Being a great defenseman and being on a very good team with great goaltending is why he has such a high plus-minus - I'm not convinced Chara is an offensive dynamo (he might've been, I don't think he is now, despite his very high shot rate - Boston's PP has been rotten for a while now, I think Chara's long reach is actually a detriment on a PP but I don't have numerical evidence for that - just watching the games is all)


Edited by Triumph, 14 May 2013 - 02:24 PM.

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#44 Zubie#8

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

Chara's shot is really overrated, who cares how hard your shot is when you have absolutely no accuracy.


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#45 DH26

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:42 PM

Chara's shot is really overrated, who cares how hard your shot is when you have absolutely no accuracy.

 

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#46 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:43 PM

apparently lou does since he got rolston to sign for 6 years with a cannon with no accuracy but epic precision. 

 

lol that was too good, every fan jumped on rolston at once.


Edited by ZeroGravityFat, 14 May 2013 - 03:43 PM.

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#47 SterioDesign

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:36 PM

Which is an empty statement.  You're both right, I was unfair, but we're talking about the context of bringing back Marek Zidlicky, which having a Norris-level defenseman who's great in all 3 zones has very little to do with.  Now if you're going to compare Zidlicky to the type of guys who are available - your Boychuk and Souray types - now you've got a stew going.  That's an actual question and there are merits to each type of player.  But Sterio has slammed the Devils for having guys who just shoot the puck at the net without thinking, now he wants Johnny Boychuk, the poster child for that?  It's just an odd line of thinking. 
 
I don't think Chara helps a power play by the way.  Being a great defenseman and being on a very good team with great goaltending is why he has such a high plus-minus - I'm not convinced Chara is an offensive dynamo (he might've been, I don't think he is now, despite his very high shot rate - Boston's PP has been rotten for a while now, I think Chara's long reach is actually a detriment on a PP but I don't have numerical evidence for that - just watching the games is all)


So where did i say that i wanted boychuk on the devils again? I said i didnt feel we had guys other than zid mayyybe who had a really good and dangerous shot from the blueline that other team had to respect and take in consideration (not that you let any dman with average shot taking slapper all game long)but some guys you have to make sure they dont get too comfy with space with the puck at the blue line.)

And then i named a few guys here and there from other team who had good shooters with canons that you have to be aware when you are on the ice. Its a fact, no coaches are screaming at their players that salvadore is wide open alone on one side thats for sure.

So not as if we dont clash enough already and that the whole board is sick of it, why in hell did you have to pick one of my example and put all the focus on it with stats, then miss my whole point and call me out on it ? I dont mind that you call me out on stuff but for love of god try to understand what im saying first, you miss my context in 90% of each cases
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#48 Triumph

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:12 PM

I mean, your example of Johnny Boychuk is just bad - if the Devils had Johnny Boychuk, or a guy like him, you would complain all the time that he shoots like an idiot and no one respects his shot and it doesn't do anything.  I agree that it would be nice if the Devils had some better shooters, and Gelinas is certainly a guy unafraid to shoot the puck, but when you give examples that are that far off from reality, I have to take issue with what you're seeing.  

 

Appreciate your apology for your lashing out post before, and I'm sorry too.


Edited by Triumph, 14 May 2013 - 07:12 PM.

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#49 DH26

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:12 PM

can we have like a weekly podcast where Triumph and Sterio debate advanced stats? It ends every week when one tries to murder the other/gets arrested 


Edited by DH26, 14 May 2013 - 09:12 PM.

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#50 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:20 PM

can we have like a weekly podcast where Triumph and Sterio debate advanced stats? It ends every week when one tries to murder the other/gets arrested 

 

This podcast must happen....


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#51 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:54 AM

can we have like a weekly podcast where Triumph and Sterio debate advanced stats? It ends every week when one tries to murder the other/gets arrested 


Haha dont think the world as we know it is ready for that
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#52 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:35 AM

I mean, your example of Johnny Boychuk is just bad - if the Devils had Johnny Boychuk, or a guy like him, you would complain all the time that he shoots like an idiot and no one respects his shot and it doesn't do anything.  I agree that it would be nice if the Devils had some better shooters, and Gelinas is certainly a guy unafraid to shoot the puck, but when you give examples that are that far off from reality, I have to take issue with what you're seeing.  

 

Appreciate your apology for your lashing out post before, and I'm sorry too.

 

See I agree with Triumph here - whenever there is talk of actually ANY acquisition defensive or offensive, the names that come up won't work here - it's apples to apples - at best a new set of disabilities to hate on.

 

It's not you Sterio - it's pandemic and eternal.  I think people just want a different song, thinking it equals a better one.


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#53 SterioDesign

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

See I agree with Triumph here - whenever there is talk of actually ANY acquisition defensive or offensive, the names that come up won't work here - it's apples to apples - at best a new set of disabilities to hate on.

 

It's not you Sterio - it's pandemic and eternal.  I think people just want a different song, thinking it equals a better one.

 

there was never any talk of "acquisition" in what i brought up... for the 3rd time... i said Zid was our only guy who had a dangerous shot (explaining why we should keep him at least another year). And i named a few examples of teams with guys with canons. Even if i would of messed up and named the worst dman in the league. Does it change anything to my initial point that we need Zid cause he's the only one bringing that dimension to our team. nop.


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#54 DJ Eco

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

there was never any talk of "acquisition" in what i brought up... for the 3rd time... i said Zid was our only guy who had a dangerous shot (explaining why we should keep him at least another year). And i named a few examples of teams with guys with canons. Even if i would of messed up and named the worst dman in the league. Does it change anything to my initial point that we need Zid cause he's the only one bringing that dimension to our team. nop.

 

I'm with you on this one, for the simple fact that Zidlicky seems more inclined to take shots than some of our forwards sometimes. If not him, then who is Lou gonna sign? I guess that's the real question. I think we have a lot more to lose by letting Zidlicky go than we do with the other guys like Volchenkov, Salvador, and Tallinder. Zidlicky's the unlucky one of the group whose contract is up though, otherwise I'd think his job was the safest of the 4.


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#55 hystyk28

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:18 PM

I think a major problem with the offense is from the back end. The D needs the green light to make some runs, especially Adam and Andy. The biggest problem with Zids is that he takes too many penalties, usually at the worst of times.

Edited by hystyk28, 15 May 2013 - 06:18 PM.

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#56 vadvlfan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:04 PM

Chara's shot is really overrated, who cares how hard your shot is when you have absolutely no accuracy.

Shot blocking has become very important in this league. Very few are anxious to get in the way of
his shot. Yes, skidmarks on their shorts. Ask our Capt.
How many point shots, pp or even strength, are actually shots?? I'll bet 90% are out there ment to be
tipped.
Very few in this league shot blows it by any goaltender from the blue line.
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