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Summer 2013 UFA/RFA Thread


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#241 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

ON ANOTHER MORE IMPORTANT CURRENT NOTE.. just read an article that toronto may not be willing to dish out the cashola for clarkson that everyone has been projecting.. hmm i wonder when he hits the market what his real worth will end up being

 

If Clarkson gets anything less than high-4 to mid-5, I'd be stunned. James Mirtle (Toronto writer) mentioned the other day that he could get double what he makes now. Word to the wise, if you're going to state that you "read an article" please post the link.


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#242 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:53 PM

 

 

3 guys in like 20+ years... fvck yeah. here goes my point. damn. How many guys walked or we had to throw them more money cause they had free agency leverage now? it's more than 3

 

Better way of asking this question: How many guys walked that we (Lou) wanted to keep? Niedermayer, Parise, and....? We knew Gomez was a goner (and rightfully so). We knew Holik was a goner (and rightfully so). Rafalski, Paul Martin, Brian Gionta, John Madden...most of our losses were guys who either got stupid contracts or we were going to let walk anyway. Or they wanted out (like Martin & I believe Parise wanted out). Not everyone wants to stay w/ this franchise.


Edited by ghdi, 18 June 2013 - 04:55 PM.

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#243 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:54 PM

If Clarkson gets anything less than high-4 to mid-5, I'd be stunned. James Mirtle (Toronto writer) mentioned the other day that he could get double what he makes now. Word to the wise, if you're going to state that you "read an article" please post the link.


here you go "word to the wise"... www.theleafsnation.com
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#244 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

You can get a better price signing a guy early than when he has the leverage of saying he want to test the market the week after to crank his price. Plus you're only bidding against yourself at that point, near trade deadline and after the draft teams are clearing up space and set themselves to be buyers and agents and rumours are already spreading that this this and this teams are interested in a player and of course he's hearing about it and start to wonder.

 

You make it sounds like players and agents are fools.  The only reason why players signing early get 'less' (ostensibly) is because they are mitigating risk for themselves.  The team takes on some of the risk that the player will get hurt for a lower price.  Players and agents are not stupid.  Also you haven't adjusted to the new CBA but that's another issue, and this doesn't really apply this year because we know what the cap number is ahead of time, most years we don't.  

 

 

you can't be too worried about injuries or you never gonna go forward thats a risk that you cant calculate. ANY players can get hurt at any time doing anything. To think like that is like those overprotective mothers who keep their kids on a leash and doesnt let them do anything close to be dangerous. Those kids doesnt turn out good too often.

 

This is ridiculous.  Injury should absolutely be a concern of every GM.  In fact, it's why 8 year deals and the like are still pretty awful, all things considered.  You can't prevent injury, but you can save yourself a lot of headaches by not signing injury-prone players, and you can mitigate some risk of long-term injury by not signing players early.

 

 

 

Just for the record if you still think that im saying that Lou should re-sign all his players early and give them wtv money they want... well i dont know what to tell you. You'd be the "wall" in the sentence "talking to a wall"

 

Most of your statements imply this.  Most of what you say implies that losing a player in free agency is the worst thing that can happen to a team.  It's not.  When your team is looking to contend for a championship, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to have happen.

 

 

3 guys in like 20+ years... fvck yeah. here goes my point. damn. How many guys walked or we had to throw them more money cause they had free agency leverage now? it's more than 3

 

Like this one, for example.  How many Tom Potis have the Devils had?  Guys they signed a year early for no reason and they got hurt for basically the duration of their contract?  It's less than 3.


Edited by Triumph, 18 June 2013 - 04:57 PM.

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#245 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:00 PM

Better way of asking this question: How many guys walked that we (Lou) wanted to keep? Niedermayer, Parise, and....? We knew Gomez was a goner (and rightfully so). We knew Holik was a goner (and rightfully so). Rafalski, Paul Martin, Brian Gionta, John Madden...most of our losses were guys who either got stupid contracts or we were going to let walk anyway. Or they wanted out (like Martin & I believe Parise wanted out). Not everyone wants to stay w/ this franchise.

 

The Devils made an offer to Holik, they didn't really make offers to any of these other guys besides Niedermayer and Parise, neither of whom 'wanted out' (as opposed to say, Martin and Gomez), but just wanted to go somewhere else more than they wanted to stay.


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#246 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

here you go "word to the wise"... www.theleafsnation.com

 

Not to nitpick, but nothing in the articles there state anything about the Leafs organization not wanting to spend for him. Its opinions of a blogger that doesn't think he's worth $5M per. I don't think there's one fan that thinks Clarkson is worth that much. The Leafs aren't his only potential destination. The Red Wings are rumored to have interest as well, and both have cap space. Who knows who else may throw him an offer. He's going to be one of the most sought after guys this year because the market is so thin.


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#247 SMantzas

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

Christ...I'm more angry at Parise because I have to hear about him every day than actually leaving
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#248 Triumph

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:14 PM

Christ...I'm more angry at Parise because I have to hear about him every day than actually leaving

 

Eh, it's better than the complaining you would've been hearing in 2-3 years about how there's only 8 years to go on his contract.  In a year or two this is largely forgotten.


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#249 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:15 PM

Not to nitpick, but nothing in the articles there state anything about the Leafs organization not wanting to spend for him. Its opinions of a blogger that doesn't think he's worth $5M per. I don't think there's one fan that thinks Clarkson is worth that much. The Leafs aren't his only potential destination. The Red Wings are rumored to have interest as well, and both have cap space. Who knows who else may throw him an offer. He's going to be one of the most sought after guys this year because the market is so thin.

a "potential destination" could be any of the teams in the league.. not just the leafs and the red wings because there is "rumor" that they are interested in him.
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#250 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:17 PM

a "potential destination" could be any of the teams in the league.. not just the leafs and the red wings because there is "rumor" that they are interested in him.

 

Of course, but that's besides the point. You stated that "just read an article that toronto may not be willing to dish out the cashola for clarkson that everyone has been projecting" and that was not said.


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#251 SMantzas

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:24 PM

Eh, it's better than the complaining you would've been hearing in 2-3 years about how there's only 8 years to go on his contract. In a year or two this is largely forgotten.

God I hope you're right....
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#252 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

Of course, but that's besides the point. You stated that "just read an article that toronto may not be willing to dish out the cashola for clarkson that everyone has been projecting" and that was not said.

Thats what the entire article is about that he may not be worth to Toronto what everyone is thinking.. did you read the article? Ill break it down for you, the blogger that writes for Toronto is guessing that they are not going to pay him what everyone thinks.. if they are even as interested in him as what everyone thinks
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#253 SterioDesign

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:05 PM

Better way of asking this question: How many guys walked that we (Lou) wanted to keep? Niedermayer, Parise, and....? We knew Gomez was a goner (and rightfully so). We knew Holik was a goner (and rightfully so). Rafalski, Paul Martin, Brian Gionta, John Madden...most of our losses were guys who either got stupid contracts or we were going to let walk anyway. Or they wanted out (like Martin & I believe Parise wanted out). Not everyone wants to stay w/ this franchise.

 

thats true and alright... work with me here. And you're right that not everyone wants to stay with their franchise. And thats part of my point. 

 

1- it's not about what happened its about the way and its not pointing out exact situations.

 

2- its STRICTLY about me not liking the situation Lou is putting himself and the players in term of negotiations. We can throw examples all day long that this and this and this happened or that this this and this could happen sometimes it turned out good and sometimes it didnt.

 

3- for the LAST TIME, i'm not suggesting anything. i.e. saying that he should sign all his players early or throw them the bank or anything. I never said that. That he HAS to either sign or trade or anything. Obviously there's shades and it's not black on white. That's what you guys seems to miss in every single of my posts.

 

4- All im saying is that Lou is not adjusting (other than Stevens, Brodeur and Zajac) but im pretty sure the Zajac signing was because he realized that he simply couldnt take the risk to lose his first line/best center when that one should really be a 2nd line center and he knew he had lots of big upcoming UFAs and wanted to get this out of the way. He simply couldnt and i'm giving him credits for that.

 

to sum up I don't like that he's using this path, cause you're cutting possibilities for yourself that way.

 

All i'd like from Lou is that he'd start talks earlier not to get a direct results but to be able to handle situations with all the inputs that he can get and make the right moves in order to calculate and minimize problems. He's not doing that.

 

By meeting with guys strictly after the season (if thats true), let's say there's a situation (and AGAIN thats an EXAMPLE) where he feel he's not certain a player wants to remain a Devils or that he feels that he's asking too much and that they'd pass on him. Well at least Lou has that knowledge and can play his cards from there. Maybe its not worth it to move him before deadline cause he thinks that guy can bring more in a playoffs run than what you could get for him could help the future, or get a sense of what he'd be worth in a package on draft day or anything worst case scenario. Like i said, it's just a matter of getting a pulse of every situations knowing where you're heading so you can play your card with no risk of getting surprised last minutes and run out of time to find the way to make things work.

 

Same situation that he's not talking with a guy and only have a short exit meeting with him and then approach his agent a week before free agency and only then learn what the guy is looking for too much or that he'd want to test the market and then lose him for nothing or have to overpay to retain his service. Well a situation like this can either 1- fvck his financial grid he had established 2- force him to make another move that he would not have done to patch that hole. etc etc but since it's last minutes you can burn yourself not being fully prepared to every possible scenarios. 3- if he would have known that the player was probably not gonna be re-signed... chances are that it could not have got a lot for him but since you're losing him you still always have that card and pry a little something for him worst case scenario.


Edited by SterioDesign, 18 June 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#254 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:10 PM

Thats what the entire article is about that he may not be worth to Toronto what everyone is thinking.. did you read the article? Ill break it down for you, the blogger that writes for Toronto is guessing that they are not going to pay him what everyone thinks.. if they are even as interested in him as what everyone thinks

 

Let me break it down for you. Your quote "toronto may not be willing to dish out the cashola for clarkson that everyone has been projectingmade it sound like the article had information from inside the organization. Period. That's the only thing I was referring to. Its an opinion that Clarky may not be worth the amount of money that is being rumored, and in fact (http://theleafsnatio...ig-ufa-contract) there is nothing in this article that states the Leafs are not willing to pay it. The only thing it does state is that the writer doesn't think he's worth a big contract. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I agree with him, I think Clarkson is a 3M player, and that whole article is just one person's opinion with nothing mentioning the organization's possible motivation or lack thereof.

 

Get it? You misrepresented what you stated the article to be about. Did you even read it? Had you said "This guy doesnt think Clarkson is worth it" would describe the article. He's not an insider.

 

I'd also give Mirtle's opinion (who states that Clarkson could double his salary) quite a bit more weight being that he's a Toronto-based hockey writer for one of their biggest publications and not a Leafs blogger based in Vancouver.


Edited by ghdi, 18 June 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#255 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:15 PM

Let me break it down for you. Your quote "toronto may not be willing to dish out the cashola for clarkson that everyone has been projectingmade it sound like the article had information from inside the organization. Period. That's the only thing I was referring to. Its an opinion that Clarky may not be worth the amount of money that is being rumored, and in fact (http://theleafsnatio...ig-ufa-contract) there is nothing in this article that states the Leafs are not willing to pay it. The only thing it does state is that the writer doesn't think he's worth a big contract. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I agree with him, I think Clarkson is a 3M player, and that whole article is just one person's opinion with nothing mentioning the organization's possible motivation or lack thereof.
 
Get it? You misrepresented what you stated the article to be about. Did you even read it? Had you said "This guy doesnt think Clarkson is worth it" would describe the article. He's not an insider.
 
I'd also give Mirtle's opinion (who states that Clarkson could double his salary) quite a bit more weight being that he's a Toronto-based hockey writer for one of their biggest publications and not a Leafs blogger based in Vancouver.

I never stated that Toronto was not in the market on him where everyone assumed them to be dollar wise.. as you quoted and bolded my words (good job) i said that they MAY NOT not that they werent.... obviously what i was saying was based off of what i read and who wrote it.. jesus christ.. talk about over reading into something someone said on a forum board.. but go ahead if you want to be a douche im down for that.
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#256 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:22 PM

thats true and alright... work with me here. And you're right that not everyone wants to stay with their franchise. And thats part of my point. 

 

2- its STRICTLY about me not liking the situation Lou is putting himself and the players in term of negotiations. We can throw examples all day long that this and this and this happened or that this this and this could happen sometimes it turned out good and sometimes it didnt.

 

All i'd like from Lou is that he'd start talks earlier not to get a direct results but to be able to handle situations with all the inputs that he can get and make the right moves in order to calculate and minimize problems. He's not doing that.

 

 

Questions for you. Most are rhetorical, but answer if you want. I'm not attacking you either, so don't take it that way.

 

How do you KNOW that Lou is not negotiating right now? How do you know that nothing has been agreed to yet?

 

Let me give you an example this year. Loktionov. We've already heard from his agent and Lou himself that Loktionov is coming back. There's not been an official announcement. You know why? Because guys can't officially re-sign yet. I don't know the date (its before 7/5 and Triumph knows it haha). The only reason it got out is because Larionov mentioned it to Russian media. Lou doesn't say anything until things are official. The only reason Lou answered it is b/c Gulutti asked him and he didn't want to contradict Larionov. 

 

The fact is, we DONT KNOW what Lou is or isn't doing, b/c he doesnt make announcements until they're official. We also don't know the mindsets of these players. They could want to go to UFA to find out what they're worth. If I was Clarkson, there would be no way in hell I'd re-sign before 7/5 b/c the quality of the market is down and this is likely his only chance to make very big money (for his calibur of play). This is Lou's way. I'm used to it. I'd much rather our front office be more up front with us, but they're not. So be it. 

 

You've obviously been a fan of this team for a long time. Is it because we're not as good as we once were that it matters so much that we're not getting info? WE NEVER HAVE. Any information about this team before its announced 99.9% of the time comes out from the other side.


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#257 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:26 PM

I never stated that Toronto was not in the market on him where everyone assumed them to be dollar wise.. as you quoted and bolded my words (good job) i said that they MAY NOT not that they werent.... obviously what i was saying was based off of what i read and who wrote it.. jesus christ.. talk about over reading into something someone said on a forum board.. but go ahead if you want to be a douche im down for that.

 

Jesus christ. I wasn't attacking you. I was stating that I felt you misrepresented what the article was about. You stated "Toronto may not be". This blogger doesn't speak for the organization. It's one guy's opinion and nothing more. It's not based in fact, when your original quotes makes it sound like it came from the team. Get it? There's no need to be so defensive. So what if another blogger stated that he felt Clarkson was worth $6M per. Would that be "Toronto may be willing to spend the cashola"?  


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#258 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

Jesus christ. I wasn't attacking you. I was stating that I felt you misrepresented what the article was about. You stated "Toronto may not be". This blogger doesn't speak for the organization. It's one guy's opinion and nothing more. It's not based in fact, when your original quotes makes it sound like it came from the team. Get it? There's no need to be so defensive. So what if another blogger stated that he felt Clarkson was worth $6M per. Would that be "Toronto may be willing to spend the cashola"?

ok well whatever.. lets just put it to rest here. i feel bad for anyone else who has to read this.. were both devil fans here ... i agree to get along or attempt to if your down with it? and hopefully we hear some news soon on our ufa's
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#259 ghdi

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:35 PM

ok well whatever.. lets just put it to rest here. i feel bad for anyone else who has to read this.. were both devil fans here ... i agree to get along or attempt to if your down with it? and hopefully we hear some news soon on our ufa's

 

I wasn't attempting to fight with you. I was only stating that I felt you misrepresented something and you escalated it. Its not a big deal. I interpreted what you said as coming from within the Leafs organization. The end.

 

fvck the Rangers.


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#260 2ELIAS6

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:39 PM

fvck the rangers lol i like that. ... going kind of out to space here but theres not much to talk about anyway so why not.. was on cap geek browsing around and noticed that ryan carter who IMO is our best fourth line player.. will be a ufa after next season, as long as his play doesn't decline do you guys think he will be back? will it be an easy sign or is it projected that other teams would possibly have some interest in him... i know he's not a top guy by any means but i think when it comes to fourth line forwards he shines well.
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