Jump to content

Photo

Summer 2013 UFA/RFA Thread


  • Please log in to reply
1626 replies to this topic

#261 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,186 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 06:55 PM

Questions for you. Most are rhetorical, but answer if you want. I'm not attacking you either, so don't take it that way.

 

How do you KNOW that Lou is not negotiating right now? How do you know that nothing has been agreed to yet?

 

Let me give you an example this year. Loktionov. We've already heard from his agent and Lou himself that Loktionov is coming back. There's not been an official announcement. You know why? Because guys can't officially re-sign yet. I don't know the date (its before 7/5 and Triumph knows it haha). The only reason it got out is because Larionov mentioned it to Russian media. Lou doesn't say anything until things are official. The only reason Lou answered it is b/c Gulutti asked him and he didn't want to contradict Larionov. 

 

The fact is, we DONT KNOW what Lou is or isn't doing, b/c he doesnt make announcements until they're official. We also don't know the mindsets of these players. They could want to go to UFA to find out what they're worth. If I was Clarkson, there would be no way in hell I'd re-sign before 7/5 b/c the quality of the market is down and this is likely his only chance to make very big money (for his calibur of play). This is Lou's way. I'm used to it. I'd much rather our front office be more up front with us, but they're not. So be it. 

 

You've obviously been a fan of this team for a long time. Is it because we're not as good as we once were that it matters so much that we're not getting info? WE NEVER HAVE. Any information about this team before its announced 99.9% of the time comes out from the other side.

 

no worries im not taking it as if youre attacking me and i swear im simply trying to make my point across cause honestly everyone seems to be missing it. and im really trying to keep this peaceful eventhough this is irritating anyone putting eyes on those posts.

 

nobody knows what Lou is doing now. But 1-2-3-4-5 weeks before free agency, there's no difference really other than he has more time to make things happen. Point is at that point it's too late for plan B.

 

What we do know (from reports and from people involved in different situations through the years and quotes taken from interviews and sh!t. Lou does not want to talk contracts during the season. He's secretive and all we all know that. But with Lou himself saying its that way and many many agents and players confirming it, im taking it for cash at this point. 

 

let me just put it this way. You have player X playing on our team, upcoming UFA. 

 

Scenario A: 

1- Lou / player X / agents begin their talks during the season to get a feel of the situation on both sides.

2- From there and knowing his intention/ demands on both sides. Lou has many moves he can make 

    a) if the player want to stay - decide if he's worth resigning now

    b) if the player want to stay - decide if its better not to risk injuries and wait after the season to re-evaluate the situation but at least things are established so less chances of bad surprises.

3- player is unsure of his future with the franchises for wtv reasons so its 50-50, so knowing that there's a bigger risk of losing the player Lou can play his cards the right way 

   a) he'd be more inclined to put him in a package or trade him at the trade deadline if the right deal is in place. So looking for the future while keeping the risks low.

   b) decide to go for it and keep him going all in for the run.

4- Player re-sign before or after free agency

5- Player doesnt resign and you lose him for nothing

 

Scenario B:

1- Lou has an exit meeting with player and get a feel of where they stand for the future. 

2- From there and knowing his intention/ demands on both sides. He decide if he want to keep the player or not.

   a) if he doesnt want to sign him or overpay or know he can't re-sign him - Waive him goodbye and look at him walk

   b) if he doesnt want to sign him or overpay or know he can't re-sign him - Try to get a late pick for him at the very least just to get something

   c) if he want to sign him well he's starting negociation resulting in - Player signing after or before testing the market

   c) if he want to sign him well he's starting negociation resulting in - Player refusing / testing the market / sign elsewhere

 

so thats my only point all along, and i mean its true. Lou is mostly always putting himself in Scenario B where his moves are really limited and his chances of getting the best of the situation are not the best. Thats ALLLLLL i've been saying for months folks. Im not saying Lou should resign all his players early or wtv but at least put himself in the best situation.

 


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#262 MadDog2020

MadDog2020

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,992 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:09 PM

The Phailures are hilarious. No defense, but they're looking to trade Coburn and their 11th pick for another forward. Rofl. http://www.csnphilly...deal-ducks-ryan
  • 0
iq0p.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com

#263 ghdi

ghdi

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,755 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:14 PM

 

nobody knows what Lou is doing now. But 1-2-3-4-5 weeks before free agency, there's no difference really other than he has more time to make things happen. Point is at that point it's too late for plan B.

 

What we do know (from reports and from people involved in different situations through the years and quotes taken from interviews and sh!t. Lou does not want to talk contracts during the season. He's secretive and all we all know that. But with Lou himself saying its that way and many many agents and players confirming it, im taking it for cash at this point. 

 

 

I didnt want to quote you in full, but you don't seem to realize it's a two-way street. The player has to want to stay too and they're not going to be honest with the media if asked. Lou "broke the mold" with Zajac earlier this year. Did anyone expect that? Is it absolutely sure that Lou didnt approach Parise in early 2012 about re-signing, but his agents said "we're going to UFA"? It's not a far fetched thought. Zach knew he was going to be the biggest name on the market last year, just as Clarkson (and Elias) know that they will get plenty of attention this year.

 

I just don't believe we have enough information to put all the grievances you seem to have on Lou. The players are culpable as well and not everyone wants to stay in New Jersey, which historically, despite our success, is not a high profile place to play.

 

What would be your Plan B this year? Lets say the worst happens and we lose Elias, Zubrus, and Clarkson. If Plan B was Horton or Weiss and both decided to sign elsewhere for less money, would that be Lou's fault?

 

I agree that there's things that Lou has done (The 3Ms, the Salvador contract) that I shake my head or scoff at, but some of the things that seem to rattle you read to me like you're being petulant/impatient. At least wait til the worst happens before assuming it's going to. I believe Lou mostly does everything he can to keep a guy, but sometimes it's just not going to happen and we don't have all the reasons as to why not b/c they're not shared with us. I also do not take the word of an agent (espc) or player as concrete, regardless if its stated regularly as their egos and public image are more important than Lou's. Lou is not going to get in a pissing match with anyone.

 

The only thing I can say to you is WAIT. We don't know what Lou has been doing b/c this team doesn't make announcements until they're official. The fact that Loktionov has agreed gives me more than enough hope that there is hope. Again, for all we know, Lou has agreements in place with Elias and Clarkson right now and is waiting til it can be made official to announce it. We just don't do things like other teams and never have.


  • 1

#264 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,610 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:21 PM

Yeah, but they're trading for a pretty damned good forward.

Edited by Daniel, 18 June 2013 - 07:23 PM.

  • 1
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#265 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,999 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:11 PM

I'm kinda done with this whole debate, but I will just say that pretty much no team does what Sterio is suggesting.  Seldom are players moved from playoff teams - the Sharks did it this year, and the Devils have done it a little bit in the past (Lyle Odelein thankfully got the boot in 2000) - the Sabres moved Campbell and Atlanta moved Kovalchuk while in the playoff race (but on the outside) - regardless, for the most part, playoff teams hold on to their guys.  I have no desire to follow a team that's always trying to pile up assets for tomorrow at the expense of today.


The Phailures are hilarious. No defense, but they're looking to trade Coburn and their 11th pick for another forward. Rofl. http://www.csnphilly...deal-ducks-ryan

 

I mean, they can't spend any more money on their D.  They've got more committed to it than just about anyone.  Schenn, Grossmann, Coburn, Timonen, Streit, and Meszaros all make in excess of $3M.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#266 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,763 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:37 PM

I like Coburn


  • 0

#267 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,511 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

sorry i'm late and the thread moved away from this, but i wanted to comment on the parise posts:

 

 For all we do know, Lou went to Zach earlier in the season and was turned down because Zach and his agents knew what UFA meant.

 

He did.

 

I actually think Parise wanted to stay with the Devils but the Wild just gave him an offer he couldn't refuse. I don't remember where I read this but I remember reading that the Devils offered Parise 7 years 50mill during his RFA summer but he turned it down since his agents felt like he could get more on the open market.

 

 

 

i mentioned it as i heard it from a reliable source - but it wasn't during the RFA summer. it was during his last season. he was going to take it but his agents convinced him to wait because he could only do better and if he wanted to take it from NJ at the end of the season, it would certainly be there.

 

Parise had no intention of remaining a Devil. He was conspiring to land with Suter the Cooter on the same team during the 11-12 season.

 

this is not true - he had the suter idea as a possibility and the truth is he thought it was maybe 20% that it could happen. if suter decided on nashville or detroit, parise would have very likely re-signed with NJ for an $80MM deal or something around there.


  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello

 

sundstrom jersey signature
 

_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#268 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,186 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

I'm kinda done with this whole debate, but I will just say that pretty much no team does what Sterio is suggesting.  Seldom are players moved from playoff teams - the Sharks did it this year, and the Devils have done it a little bit in the past (Lyle Odelein thankfully got the boot in 2000) - the Sabres moved Campbell and Atlanta moved Kovalchuk while in the playoff race (but on the outside) - regardless, for the most part, playoff teams hold on to their guys.  I have no desire to follow a team that's always trying to pile up assets for tomorrow at the expense of today.


Look at what Shero will do with letang now that he apparently want too much. You watch the return he'll get instead of running letang to his last day and see him walk.
  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#269 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,999 posts

Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:32 PM

Look at what Shero will do with letang now that he apparently want too much. You watch the return he'll get instead of running letang to his last day and see him walk.

 

Sure, and look how good Pittsburgh's going to be next year.  They were a 50% FenTied team this year, now they'll lose arguably their best D, they already lost their shutdown center last year.  They're a good shooting team but can't expect to duplicate those results in 2012-13 - they'll be a playoff team, certainly, but best in their division?  Certainly would make it a horse race.

 

They made 3 trades to supposedly get better this year (of course, they got worse as a result, but GM of the year Shero sure knwos when to go for it) - why did they trade away Jordan Staal if this was the year to make a run?


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#270 njd3b1ink

njd3b1ink

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 994 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:50 AM

The Pittsburgh examples are terrible. Shero did a sh!t job with all his trades. And if they want another shot this year then they won't trade Letang. If they do then it will be great for the Devils. Letang is the best Dman on a weak defensive team with bad goaltending. I would love for them to get even weaker.
Edit: and I don't consider what Shero did to "win now" moves. That was what he was trying to accomplish but he got slow players in positions that they didnt need to improve in. Jokinen was the best trade. The other three were trash.

Edited by njd3b1ink, 19 June 2013 - 12:53 AM.

  • 0

#271 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,211 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

The Pittsburgh examples are terrible. Shero did a sh!t job with all his trades. And if they want another shot this year then they won't trade Letang. If they do then it will be great for the Devils. Letang is the best Dman on a weak defensive team with bad goaltending. I would love for them to get even weaker.
Edit: and I don't consider what Shero did to "win now" moves. That was what he was trying to accomplish but he got slow players in positions that they didnt need to improve in. Jokinen was the best trade. The other three were trash.

 

 

I agree 100%. I wonder if the Devils might have made the playoffs if we could've picked up Jokinen... My guess is yes.


  • 0

#272 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,434 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

I agree 100%. I wonder if the Devils might have made the playoffs if we could've picked up Jokinen... My guess is yes.

 

The Devils missed the playoffs by 7 points. One guy wasn't going to bridge that gap.


  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#273 SMantzas

SMantzas

    Head Coach

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,311 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:32 AM

The Devils missed the playoffs by 7 points. One guy wasn't going to bridge that gap.

Kovalchuk?
  • 0

#274 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 28,999 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:51 AM

Kovalchuk?

 

Absolutely not - Kovalchuk probably isn't worth 7 points over a whole 82 game season unless he's crushing at shootouts again.  The only player who could be worth in a shortened season that would be a goalie.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#275 SMantzas

SMantzas

    Head Coach

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,311 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:00 AM

Absolutely not - Kovalchuk probably isn't worth 7 points over a whole 82 game season unless he's crushing at shootouts again. The only player who could be worth in a shortened season that would be a goalie.

I was being half serious but think of how many 2-1 games the Devils lost. Not like he was tearing it up but you can't deny having Kovy would at least make it interesting. It's funny, NJ actually played really well this year, just no puck luck
  • 0

#276 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,211 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

The Devils missed the playoffs by 7 points. One guy wasn't going to bridge that gap.

 

Think about how close so many of those games were, hitting posts and crossbars, dominating play, etc... A few goals here and there (if he were to put up some of the numbers he did during his initial stay with Pittsburgh) could have turned some of those games and instilled confidence in the rest of the roster during a time where there was none.


  • 0

#277 MadDog2020

MadDog2020

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,992 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:55 AM

I'm gonna rofl when the Flyers don't leave any cap space for Giroux next offseason :lol:

Not even Holmgren is that stupid. Giroux's not going anywhere, they'll do what they have to do to sign him. He's their franchise.
  • 0
iq0p.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com

#278 Marshall

Marshall

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,694 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:57 AM

The correct phrasing would be "I'm gonna ROFL when they sign Giroux to a contract which makes it impossible for them to have any depth whatsoever".


  • 0

Winner of the 2009-10 Slava Fetisov Award For Best International Poster
Winner of the 2011-2012 RD Avatar Award


#279 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,186 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:07 PM

I'm gonna rofl when the Flyers don't leave any cap space for Giroux next offseason :lol:

 

just read they are already talking contract with Giroux at this very moment so it seems he's trying to know where that whole thing is going before making moves, good way to approach it but of course Holmgren gonna fvck it up. Well i certainly hope so lol


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 


#280 SterioDesign

SterioDesign

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,186 posts

Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:09 PM

Think about how close so many of those games were, hitting posts and crossbars, dominating play, etc... A few goals here and there (if he were to put up some of the numbers he did during his initial stay with Pittsburgh) could have turned some of those games and instilled confidence in the rest of the roster during a time where there was none.

 

Thats true but thats what hockey is... think about ALL the games we won by one goal. That was our thing... get a lead and close the play. And the Devils has been awesome for a very long time. Over a season the difference between a few spot is very very little and pretty much all teams are getting those 1 goal game when you really look at it


  • 0

www.SterioDesign.com

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users