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Summer 2013 UFA/RFA Thread


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#401 Triumph

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

True, so it wasnt that costly really, more just the bodies. And yea, Lombardi said he wanted a backup as well. I also think our 2nd is more valuable, we have the 39, the Kings is probably in the 40s, and our '14 second is even more valuable since we won't have a first. 

 

I wouldn't have offered Fayne either and I don't think the Devils would have. Fayne is a very good player for what he's being paid and is only getting better.

 

Frattin's pretty good, still cost controlled for 2 more years.  The Leafs are dealing their 2014 or 2015 2nd.  I agree that I wouldn't make this deal, but even so the Devils don't have the right assets to make it.


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#402 ghdi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:03 PM

Frattin's pretty good, still cost controlled for 2 more years.  The Leafs are dealing their 2014 or 2015 2nd.  I agree that I wouldn't make this deal, but even so the Devils don't have the right assets to make it.

 

Right, the last sentence is what I was trying to say haha.


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#403 RizzMB30

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

Єklund (2.3% accurate) was right, hockeybuzz reported Leafs step up offer for Bernier, they finally worked something out I guess.  Can't believe hockeybuzz had some inkling of an offer.
http://www.hockeybuz...40#.Ucc9aJxW2So

 

Reported on 21 June.


Edited by RizzMB30, 23 June 2013 - 01:27 PM.

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#404 ghdi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:29 PM

How would we feel about the Devils making a trade for Reimer? Without any research my kneejerk is that I think it would a good move for us. Obviously, Moose would have to be dealt or bought out.


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#405 Devils731

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:48 PM

Єklund (2.3% accurate) was right, hockeybuzz reported Leafs step up offer for Bernier, they finally worked something out I guess.  Can't believe hockeybuzz had some inkling of an offer.
http://www.hockeybuz...40#.Ucc9aJxW2So

 

Reported on 21 June.

 

HockeyBuzz....making hundreds of bad predictions so the 23 out of 1000 that are correct prove we have sources. :lol:


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#406 ghdi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:21 PM

HockeyBuzz....making hundreds of bad predictions so the 23 out of 1000 that are correct prove we have sources. :lol:

 

This is funny now especially. Єklund (2.3% accurate) gets one right and now he has us chasing Luongo lol I dont know what else to say.


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#407 Marshall

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 02:43 PM

I'd loooove Reimer on the Devils.


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#408 MadDog2020

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

I wouldn't mind making a move for Reimer either in all honesty, but I have a feeling we'll be entering the season with the Geriatric Twins in goal again. I love Moose, but we really need to find a younger and more reliable backup.
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#409 vadvlfan

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

It would take an awful lot to land a starting goalie. I'm sure Leafs have already entertained offers from clubs. They'd like to move up


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#410 maxpower

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

Reimer isn't significantly better than the guy we already have.   And he's 41.   


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#411 Devils731

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:48 PM

Reimer isn't significantly better than the guy we already have.   And he's 41.   

 

Unless the trapezoid is removed or the pad reduction is signifigant, Reimer is at least a decent upgrade over Marty at this point.


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#412 ghdi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:49 PM

Reimer isn't significantly better than the guy we already have.   And he's 41.   

 

But Reimer is 25 and is largely responsible for getting the Leafs to within one game of ousting a potential Cup champ. That game 7 was atrocious, but 18-9-5 this year and has a good upside. He is significantly better than Moose at this point and Marty's probably done in a year. 

 

Would you fell better going into next season with Wedgewood and Kinkaid (should Marty retire) or something off the scrap heap, or Reimer as the penciled in starter and one of the kids behind him?


Edited by ghdi, 23 June 2013 - 03:50 PM.

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#413 maxpower

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 03:54 PM

But Reimer is 25 and is largely responsible for getting the Leafs to within one game of ousting a potential Cup champ. That game 7 was atrocious, but 18-9-5 this year and has a good upside. He is significantly better than Moose at this point and Marty's probably done in a year. 

 

Would you fell better going into next season with Wedgewood and Kinkaid (should Marty retire) or something off the scrap heap, or Reimer as the penciled in starter and one of the kids behind him?

 

He's a late starter at the position and has no rebound control.

 

Butterfly goalies are dime a dozen.   My first interest would be "how big are they", then secondly how disciplined they are with keeping their angles/net, etc.

 

To me, Reimer *is* a scrap heap goalie.    He's not an elite guy, he's just another butterfly goalie.

 

edit:   To not totally bury him, he does work hard and fight in net, I'm just not crazy about his form.


Edited by maxpower, 23 June 2013 - 04:07 PM.

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#414 Triumph

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:32 PM

He's a late starter at the position and has no rebound control.

 

Butterfly goalies are dime a dozen.   My first interest would be "how big are they", then secondly how disciplined they are with keeping their angles/net, etc.

 

To me, Reimer *is* a scrap heap goalie.    He's not an elite guy, he's just another butterfly goalie.

 

edit:   To not totally bury him, he does work hard and fight in net, I'm just not crazy about his form.

 

He's been a .915 goalie over his NHL career and had two good half-seasons before he got to the NHL.  Whatever he's doing is working better than Brodeur.  


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#415 maxpower

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 04:50 PM

He's been a .915 goalie over his NHL career and had two good half-seasons before he got to the NHL.  Whatever he's doing is working better than Brodeur.  

 

Whoop-de-do.    Especially coming from you, since it's not like you have a high opinion of Brodeur's play in the first place, it's not really a ringing endorsement.   By all means, someone can go in and overpay for him and then end up with an ordinary butterfly goalie.

 

BTW, 2 out of the last 3 years they've been in the bottom 10 in shots against.   The other season they were 19th.


Edited by maxpower, 23 June 2013 - 04:52 PM.

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#416 ghdi

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 05:51 PM

 

 

To me, Reimer *is* a scrap heap goalie.    He's not an elite guy, he's just another butterfly goalie.

 

 

So, what do you suggest the Devils do? There are no "elite" goaltenders on the market or hitting the market anytime soon. Instead of burying a potential acquisition, provide an alternative.

 

Here's the list http://www.capgeek.c...=G&fa_type_id=2

 

Lundqvist is almost assuredly not going to hit the market. Miller is not elite anymore either and he's likely to be traded. Halak will probably get re-upped. As will Crawford.

 

As it stands right now, we have 2 40+ guys whose contracts are ending in a year with the only goaltenders with the franchise completely unproven.

 

At the very least, Reimer would provide just a little bit of insurance instead of having to go into the season with only Wedge/Kinkaid.


Edited by ghdi, 23 June 2013 - 05:53 PM.

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#417 maxpower

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:20 PM

So, what do you suggest the Devils do? There are no "elite" goaltenders on the market or hitting the market anytime soon. Instead of burying a potential acquisition, provide an alternative.

 

Here's the list http://www.capgeek.c...=G&fa_type_id=2

 

Lundqvist is almost assuredly not going to hit the market. Miller is not elite anymore either and he's likely to be traded. Halak will probably get re-upped. As will Crawford.

 

As it stands right now, we have 2 40+ guys whose contracts are ending in a year with the only goaltenders with the franchise completely unproven.

 

At the very least, Reimer would provide just a little bit of insurance instead of having to go into the season with only Wedge/Kinkaid.

 

Not giving up a pick + for James Reimer would be a start.   I'm not the GM, I don't need contingency plans.    If your heart is set on James Reimer you should have no problem getting something similar to him when you need him.   Or he should be able to play down his value when he loses his job.


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#418 Triumph

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:27 PM

Whoop-de-do.    Especially coming from you, since it's not like you have a high opinion of Brodeur's play in the first place, it's not really a ringing endorsement.   By all means, someone can go in and overpay for him and then end up with an ordinary butterfly goalie.

 

BTW, 2 out of the last 3 years they've been in the bottom 10 in shots against.   The other season they were 19th.

 

Low shots against (besides scorer miscounts) don't have anything to do with save percentages.  Brodeur's are all below-average the last three years.  He was average to above-average in the playoffs in 2012, but there's just no guarantees that he isn't through.

 

I'd love to have an ordinary butterfly goalie, if ordinary means of average ability.  I know it's common around here to think that Brodeur's the greatest and that it's always the defense that's the problem, but if they'd gotten .915 goaltending as a team they would've given up 23 fewer goals and probably make the playoffs.


Edited by Triumph, 23 June 2013 - 06:29 PM.

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#419 maxpower

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

Low shots against (besides scorer miscounts) don't have anything to do with save percentages.  Brodeur's are all below-average the last three years.  He was average to above-average in the playoffs in 2012, but there's just no guarantees that he isn't through.

 

I'd love to have an ordinary butterfly goalie, if ordinary means of average ability.  I know it's common around here to think that Brodeur's the greatest and that it's always the defense that's the problem, but if they'd gotten .915 goaltending as a team they would've given up 23 fewer goals and probably make the playoffs.

 

Of course the shot differential is going to have something to do with your save percentage.   You're just being dishonest as a numbers guy if you don't think that's the case.

 

The deal here isn't that he's not better than a 41 year old Marty.    It's that he's not worth making a commitment to, which starts by having to trade for him while he still has inflated value.    He's 25 and it's pretty likely the sloppyness in his game is never going away.


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#420 Triumph

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 06:43 PM

Of course the shot differential is going to have something to do with your save percentage.   You're just being dishonest as a numbers guy if you don't think that's the case.

 

Except it doesn't.  Find me the correlation.  Shots are shots.  You think NJ's shot prevention only prevents the easy shots?  Why bother doing it, then?

 

Obviously in the abstract, if shots against got high or low enough, yes, we'd have to conclude that there's an impact, but I don't think that's the case in the NHL.  We see plenty of teams who give up lots of shots with high and low save percentages and vice versa to conclude that there's no correlation (again, absent lazy scoring which the Devils do have and affects Brodeur's save percentage a few points each year).  Of course you think Hasek gave up rebounds that increased his save percentage.

 

EDIT:  there may be a very slight correlation based on the fact that teams who get good goaltending tend to lead more often in games and therefore face more lower percentage shots (and therefore more shots overall) in 3rd periods.  But I don't think this is particularly significant.

 

The deal here isn't that he's not better than a 41 year old Marty.    It's that he's not worth making a commitment to, which starts by having to trade for him while he still has inflated value.    He's 25 and it's pretty likely the sloppyness in his game is never going away.

 

Except for his markedly better results over the last 3 years, to the tune of what would be worth several wins in the standings to a team that's missed the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years, yes, I agree he's not better than a 41 year old Brodeur.


Edited by Triumph, 23 June 2013 - 06:51 PM.

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