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Devils trade #9 pick in 2013 Draft to Vancouver for Cory Schneider


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#261 Beezer34

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 10:25 PM

Schneider hasn't played 100 NHL games yet.


..nearly 100 games played, 98 to be exact.
Still though, throughout those 98 games, only 26 regulation losses! The guys got 53 wins over his last 79 starts.. pretty amazing stats over the last 3 years. What's-more, he hasn't even entered his prime yet! Seeing Schneider play any less than 30 games this season would be a letdown.

The Devils better do all they can here not to screw this up. I respect the fact that there needs to be regard dealing with Brodeur's dignity.. however, if Marty shows an unwillingness to bow out graciously after this season, then let him chase 700 on another team.

Edited by Beezer34, 01 July 2013 - 11:30 PM.

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#262 dmitri

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:09 PM

There are positions in hockey that a player can ride off to the sunset in despite a drastic decline.  Mike Modano is a great example of that, as is Ken Daneyko.  Goalie is not one of them.  When a guy is done there is no hiding it, and if hes left in the game it gets ugly real quick.  The Devils are on the verge of that with Marty, and it is far worse to embarrass him in net then to embarrass him by putting him on the bench for a year.  If he even thinks about entertaining the idea of playing past this year it would be the Devils best interest to immediately offer him a position in the org as the counter.  If he isnt starting there is a good chance he becomes a distraction to whomever is, and the team is best served by him not being around.

 

Amen!


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#263 MadDog2020

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:30 PM

Schneider hasn't played 100 NHL games yet.

..nearly 100 games played, 98 to be exact.
Still though, throughout those 98 games, only 26 regulation losses! The guys got 53 wins over his last 79 starts.. pretty amazing stats over the last 3 years. What's-more, he hasn't even entered his prime yet! Seeing Schneider play any less than 30 games this season would be a letdown.
The Devils better do all they can here not to screw this up. I respect the fact that there needs to be respect dealing with Brodeur's dignity.. however, if Marty shows an unwillingness to bow out graciously after this season, then let him chase 700 on another team.

Yeah, we're on the same page here Beez. This has gotta be it this year for Marty. I'll cry like a baby at his last game, but now that we have the answer moving forward, Marty needs to do the right thing for the organization and step aside after this season, one way or the other.
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#264 SterioDesign

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:51 PM

Yeah, we're on the same page here Beez. This has gotta be it this year for Marty. I'll cry like a baby at his last game, but now that we have the answer moving forward, Marty needs to do the right thing for the organization and step aside after this season, one way or the other.


I almost had tears watching sakic's ceremony when they retired his jersey in colorado, and i NEVER even liked the guy, my dad was a nordique fan so sakic was the ennemy... Plus then 2001.. Meh...

But anyway i cant imagining when its gonna be marty's turn, who i idolized all my life.. Point is ill be 30 when he retires (if he does after next season) but godamnit im gonna cry like a baby for sure haha
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#265 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:17 AM

I think fans think too much about 'how a player goes out' - it's his life, and if he wants to continue playing NHL hockey (at least for the Devils), that's how he's going to have to do it.

 

Starting to feel like you're going into "Being contrary for the sake of being contrary" mode.

 

I said myself it's his legacy to do with as he sees fit.  But it shouldn't be too difficult for you to understand why it would seem odd why a guy like Marty would want to go out as a 42-year-old backup who, when he does get on the ice, will likely be a shell of his former self.  With the exception of his first full year, where the Devils broke him in initially by rotating him with Terreri, he has been the unquestioned #1 guy going into every season, and from '95-'96 to '09-'10, he was basically an absolute lock to start 70+ games, barring injury.  He has relished being the number #1 guy who plays in as many games as possible...we heard in recent seasons how the Devils were going to cut back his games, and it took him declining for it to finally happen.  His detractors have even called him selfish and his desire to play and play and play some more a detriment.

 

For the first time in his career, he is going into a new season as the tentative #1, and I feel pretty strongly he will fight hard to keep his #1 status for as long as he possibly can (which sadly may not be very long).  He may very well lose his "THE MAN" status as early as November, but it sure won't be because he didn't battle for it.     

 

And I don't think that, even if he is willing to become a 20-game backup come 2014-15, that it will necessarily translate to a different kind of success for him.  For one, that's not something he's ever had to do in the NHL.  For another, if his skills are eroding as they appear to be, I don't know how playing less games is somehow going to stave his decline off.  Does anyone want to see Marty come in every 5 or 6 games or so and struggle mightily doing it?  Would Marty want that?  Those 20 games will be important too...it's not like the Devils will be in the position to just give Marty 20 games at low cost, just because he insists he still wants to play.

 

Of course, if this season turns out to be a bottoming-out one for Marty, performance-wise, the above becomes moot.  It's more if he turns in a season like last year's, or one slightly worse than that, and he makes it clear that, yes, I know my time as the Devils #1 is up, but I think I can be a backup here for at least another year, and I'm willing to do it at a relatively low cost.  What do the Devils do then?    


Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 02 July 2013 - 06:19 AM.

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#266 DJ Eco

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:51 AM

No one said he isn't better. It has nothing to do with that. You don't want to just throw the leader of the locker room onto the bench like that. You have to give him the chance to defend his spot and let Schneider earn it. It's not a video game. The guys on the team are real people. You risk players taking sides and splitting the room.


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#267 LucifersDog

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:28 AM

The thing is, Marty is done as a nhl starter.  I know lots of people want to keep him in nets, but he just is not a starting quality goalie anymore.  He cannot stay healthy for a season at a time, and isnt all that good when hes in net.  His S% was good for 42nd in the league last year.  If you take out guys who played under 20 games, he was still 36th.  This is the 3rd year straight that he has been under 30.  34th in 11-12 and 35th in 10-11.  This is not going to get any better.  So we have a guy who is below starting quality in the regular season for 3 years running, is trending the right direction, and plays for a team that is going to need as much help in net as it can get to make the playoffs, yet we still want to start him out of sentiment?  That is the sort of thinking if it carries through the year will likely have the team looking from the outside of the playoff picture.

 

This is not a condemnation of his past contributions to the team, but a look at where he is now.  Many of these guys love the game and do not know when to call it quits because they will not take an objective look at the quality of their play.  Marty is quickly getting to that point.  Hes a hero, let him play 35-30 games if that many.  Call him the starter if it strokes his ego, but come game 10, if he is still getting played like the number 1 the Devils will have made the wrong choice in nets.

 

There are positions in hockey that a player can ride off to the sunset in despite a drastic decline.  Mike Modano is a great example of that, as is Ken Daneyko.  Goalie is not one of them.  When a guy is done there is no hiding it, and if hes left in the game it gets ugly real quick.  The Devils are on the verge of that with Marty, and it is far worse to embarrass him in net then to embarrass him by putting him on the bench for a year.  If he even thinks about entertaining the idea of playing past this year it would be the Devils best interest to immediately offer him a position in the org as the counter.  If he isnt starting there is a good chance he becomes a distraction to whomever is, and the team is best served by him not being around.

 

Doing anything but what gives the team the best chance to win each night is a disservice to the other 22 guys on the roster.

 

 

So very well said thank you


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#268 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:37 AM

No one said he isn't better. It has nothing to do with that. You don't want to just throw the leader of the locker room onto the bench like that. You have to give him the chance to defend his spot and let Schneider earn it. It's not a video game. The guys on the team are real people. You risk players taking sides and splitting the room.

 

yeah this. Still love Marty and actually he was the only guy playing well in some games last season, without him some games would have been a mess. He can still play.

 

But also he's obviously not great anymore and eventhough the guys all love him i already felt some awkwardness when we were in the cup final and the guys were asked how they felt having Marty in net and what it meant to them and bla bla. They all said it was fun to have a goalie which you know gives you a chance to win every night... but i mean... cmon haha you could tell they felt awkward at time answering those questions


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#269 Beezer34

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:18 AM

Marty is done as a nhl starter.  I know lots of people want to keep him in nets, but he just is not a starting quality goalie anymore.  He cannot stay healthy for a season at a time, and isnt all that good when hes in net.  His S% was good for 42nd in the league last year.  If you take out guys who played under 20 games, he was still 36th.  This is the 3rd year straight that he has been under 30.  34th in 11-12 and 35th in 10-11. This is not a condemnation of his past contributions to the team, but a look at where he is now.  Many of these guys love the game and do not know when to call it quits because they will not take an objective look at the quality of their play.  Marty is quickly getting to that point.  Hes a hero, let him play 35-30 games if that many.  Call him the starter if it strokes his ego, but come game 10, if he is still getting played like the number 1 the Devils will have made the wrong choice in nets.

 

I’ve always drawn a parallel to the whole situation to the Packers & Brett Favre.. and I guess only time will tell if it plays out the same way. It almost becomes the detriment of a fanbase as retirement nears, in having a player whom is arguably the best at his position play for your team.. you know there’s a risk that it’s going to end badly. You’re dealing with pro-athletes and their bloated egos (and in part, that’s what makes them so great.. their competitive spirit) who don’t know when to let go, and transition from the game. VERY few of the greats bow out graciously.

I do feel that the whole; “Well, Marty can be a Back-up till 2016!!” notion is complete bullsh!t. He’s Marty Brodeur! There’s no life after being a starter, because that’s what Brodeur is, was, and always will be.. a starter. You can’t undercut Schneider to the point where he’s looking over his shoulder everytime he has a bad game. Marty has a cult-like following (obviously) and to put a kid who’s career hasn’t even started yet, in a situation where the fans chant; WE--WANT--MAR--TY  after every bad goal, isn’t fair. To deal with this for 1 season.. okay, fine. I can go through with that. But after this season (and I know this is going to sound sacrilegious to many) the most healthy thing for the Devils going forward is a clean break from Brodeur.. a long-term contract for Schneider.. and either Kinkaid or Wedgewood the backup. *again.. the parallel; Would Aaron Rodgers have played with as much confidence having Brett Favre looking over his shoulder in Green Bay?? :noclue:  Typically, the legends of sports just retire when father-time gives them a tap on the shoulder, because their shadow(s) are too large to except a role in a limited capacity. We just pulled a major heist in acquiring a 27 year old franchise goalie, and instead of the fans relishing the trade in unison, there’s a divide based off of; “Well how is Marty going to handle this??” --which is silly, because Schneider’s  feelings are JUST AS IMPORTANT to the organization, based on what’s left on the contract. If C.S. gets even the slightest feeling that his career has gone backwards in NJ from any type of distraction\controversy, then he walks in 2 years! And you tossed away a 1st rounder for nothing.. and are without any goalie.

 

I still hold out hope that this all can end well. I honestly can see that playing out. However, can I see the ending to the story where Brodeur wants to come back again in the same role as this season, for 2014-15? --the Devils saying; No.. if you come back, you’re a back-up that plays 15-20.. here is our offer for 1.6 million.. and Marty goes to sign with someone else, because he’s insulted by the offer, and wants to go prove he still has alot left in the tank? Sadly I can see that happening aswell.


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#270 DH26

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:26 AM

 

I’ve always drawn a parallel to the whole situation to the Packers & Brett Favre.. and I guess only time will tell if it plays out the same way. It almost becomes the detriment of a fanbase as retirement nears, in having a player whom is arguably the best at his position play for your team.. you know there’s a risk that it’s going to end badly. You’re dealing with pro-athletes and their bloated egos (and in part, that’s what makes them so great.. their competitive spirit) who don’t know when to let go, and transition from the game. VERY few of the greats bow out graciously.

I do feel that the whole; “Well, Marty can be a Back-up till 2016!!” notion is complete bullsh!t. He’s Marty Brodeur! There’s no life after being a starter, because that’s what Brodeur is, was, and always will be.. a starter. You can’t undercut Schneider to the point where he’s looking over his shoulder everytime he has a bad game. Marty has a cult-like following (obviously) and to put a kid who’s career hasn’t even started yet, in a situation where the fans chant; WE--WANT--MAR--TY  after every bad goal, isn’t fair. To deal with this for 1 season.. okay, fine. I can go through with that. But after this season (and I know this is going to sound sacrilegious to many) the most healthy thing for the Devils going forward is a clean break from Brodeur.. a long-term contract for Schneider.. and either Kinkaid or Wedgewood the backup. *again.. the parallel; Would Aaron Rodgers have played with as much confidence having Brett Favre looking over his shoulder in Green Bay?? :noclue:  Typically, the legends of sports just retire when father-time gives them a tap on the shoulder, because their shadow(s) are too large to except a role in a limited capacity. We just pulled a major heist in acquiring a 27 year old franchise goalie, and instead of the fans relishing the trade in unison, there’s a divide based off of; “Well how is Marty going to handle this??” --which is silly, because Schneider’s  feelings are JUST AS IMPORTANT to the organization, based on what’s left on the contract. If C.S. gets even the slightest feeling that his career has gone backwards in NJ from any type of distraction\controversy, then he walks in 2 years! And you tossed away a 1st rounder for nothing.. and are without any goalie.

 

I still hold out hope that this all can end well. I honestly can see that playing out. However, can I see the ending to the story where Brodeur wants to come back again in the same role as this season, for 2014-15? --the Devils saying; No.. if you come back, you’re a back-up that plays 15-20.. here is our offer for 1.6 million.. and Marty goes to sign with someone else, because he’s insulted by the offer, and wants to go prove he still has alot left in the tank? Sadly I can see that happening aswell.

 

the packers basically told the old legend to shove it and it's worked out beautifully for them. The Devils thankfully don't have to do that w/ Marty like the Packers did with Favre since 2 goalies can play, but if Schneider's not playing more games from the start, it's a disservice to everyone. Favre was at least coming off a great year when he went crazy, Brodeur's....not


Edited by DH26, 02 July 2013 - 08:27 AM.

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#271 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:54 AM

So i think most if not everyone here are fine with trading our 9th overall pick for a stability in net.

 

but let's say we would have finish lower... until what pick it would have bothered you? 

 

to me a top 4 pick this year i would have kept it. Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov and Jones we're just too good... anyone willing to go down further?


Edited by SterioDesign, 02 July 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#272 capo

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 08:57 AM

I'm pretty sure Marty sees the writing on the wall here.  If he didn't make it to the finals in 12 he probably would have called it quits after the lockout.  But, I think he sees one more serious cup shot with this team.  Marty is the consumate professional.  Look back at how he handled Louongo being given the reigns at the olympics.  Sure, internally, he's not going to like the fact that he's 42 and it'all over.  He gets it, though.  He loves the NJD as much as anyone.  He'll do what's best for the team.  For Marty, this is just the next chapter in his hockey life.  It's not just about being a player anymore. If there was any doubt that this went beyond playing the game other than just the game itself look back to the 7th round of the 2013 NHL entry draft.  Marty will do everything he can to help Cory Schneider get the NJD another ring.


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#273 roomtemp

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:15 PM

His legacy in the long term won't take any hit if he hangs on for dear life as a back up for a few more years unless he's like 49 bumming around the CHL still hoping for an NHL job. Does anyone really think it hurt Joe Namath, Johnny Unitas, OJ Simpson, Jerry Rice, Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, and Willie Mays' legacy because they had a year or two on a different team because they wanted to hang around too long? No not really. I could make a list of players who stuck around a year or two in lesser roles on teams they made their name on too (I'm just lazy) and again it barely comes up. So the legacy argument should be a moot point.


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#274 Pepperkorn

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:53 PM

Ouch! 

 

I love Sarge18 and I dont want to discourage posting on the forums... but I do agree with DevilDan (this is becoming a habit).

 

These things must be handled delicately or you'll hurt the spell. 

 

 

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#275 SterioDesign

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

interesting article about goalie situation in NJ and Schneider's potential in NJ 

 

 

The best news for Schneider is that he takes one of the NHL's best save percentages of the past few seasons to a team that thrives on limiting chances. We already noted that Brodeur had a .901 save percentage last season, but did you realize his goals-against average was actually a solid 2.22? Now consider this: All 10 goaltenders with a better GAA than Brodeur last season had a save percentage better than .920. That is a pretty solid indicator that the Devils systems and defense makes it a bit easier on goaltenders. Combine that defensive-zone awareness with Schneider's ability to stop pucks and the sky is the limit. It will be hard not to consider him a top-five fantasy goaltender coming into this season.

 

http://espn.go.com/f...-trade-analysis


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#276 devilsrule33

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

interesting article about goalie situation in NJ and Schneider's potential in NJ 

 

 

http://espn.go.com/f...-trade-analysis

 

Tri has discussed this quite a bit (and posted this link: http://nhlnumbers.co...rs-but-how-much), but I don't think you can expect Schneider's numbers to jump at all. 

 

The Devils gave up fewer shots than every team in the league last year, but probably gave up the same amount of scoring chances in proportion to total shots as most other teams.  And as Tri also mentioned the other day, we have hundreds of examples that show save percentage doesn't change much when a goalie changes teams.

 

I should add that the Devils system is a perfect match for a great goalie like Schneider. The Devils should be one of the top defensive teams next season in GA, and Schneider should be blanking a lot of teams.


Edited by devilsrule33, 02 July 2013 - 02:10 PM.

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#277 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

I think we are a lock for Jennings with Brodeur/Schneider duo.


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#278 Daniel

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:20 PM

Tri has discussed this quite a bit (and posted this link: http://nhlnumbers.co...rs-but-how-much), but I don't think you can expect Schneider's numbers to jump at all. 

 

The Devils gave up fewer shots than every team in the league last year, but probably gave up the same amount of scoring chances in proportion to total shots as most other teams.  And as Tri also mentioned the other day, we have hundreds of examples that show save percentage doesn't change much when a goalie changes teams.

 

I should add that the Devils system is a perfect match for a great goalie like Schneider. The Devils should be one of the top defensive teams next season in GA, and Schneider should be blanking a lot of teams.

 

A few weaknesses with this argument.  What I've noticed gets lost in the Devils shots against shuffle is that the folks that tend to feel it is a very useful stat tend to ignore the theory that shots are undercounted at Devils home games.  Naturally, this would tend to decrease the save percentage for Devils goalies, whoever they may be.

 

Also, what I've read anyway, is that Schneider is not great handling the puck, while obviously Brodeur is, and Hedberg has a reputation for being good with the puck too.  You would think anyway that a goalie that can handle the puck will end up facing fewer shots overall, but a greater percentage of those shots will be of higher quality.  Just a theory though.

 

Like I said, this year will go a long way to resolving the chicken/egg debate when it comes to save percentage.  We know Schneider has proven to be a very good goalie.  We'll see if it turns out that Brodeur has been better in the past couple of years than some have given him credit for.


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#279 Devils731

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:22 PM


Like I said, this year will go a long way to resolving the chicken/egg debate when it comes to save percentage. 

 

No it won't.  It will just be another single instance to go along with many other instances.


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#280 Daniel

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 02:26 PM

No it won't.  It will just be another single instance to go along with many other instances.

 

It doesn't help when you ignore the substance of the argument. 

 

But in any event, if you're right, I'll freely admit it.  Somehow I don't think you will.


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