Jump to content

Photo

Devils trade #9 pick in 2013 Draft to Vancouver for Cory Schneider


  • Please log in to reply
341 replies to this topic

#301 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,599 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:19 PM

We have enough data on Brodeur's backups to know how much he suppresses shots against.

This article is actually not very good, I'd be curious to run the numbers for the last 5 years, as the Devils have used a lot of backups: http://brodeurisafra...prevention.html


What's the good data you have, because the article you linked to said more analysis is needed. (Probably why you said it isn't very good).

A comparison to Hedberg to show shot suppression won't tell a guy like me very much since Hedberg is a good puck handler in his own right.

I guess what everyone seems to be saying here is that goaltending was the biggest factor in the poor results this season. Next year ought to be a decent test of this theory since, if you believe save percentage is most important, Schneider is the better goalie. (You can use goals against if you want).

Of course, and to be as respectful as I can about this, if goals against/wins does not reflect this, you'll say it was just luck or Schneider isn't very good ir Broduer was unusually lucky. Chickens/eggs.
  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#302 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,486 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:30 PM

A comparison to Hedberg to show shot suppression won't tell a guy like me very much since Hedberg is a good puck handler in his own right.

 

Got years with Weekes and Clemmensen, and the data will be easy to winnow out.  Hell, we can sort it by even strength.

 

I guess what everyone seems to be saying here is that goaltending was the biggest factor in the poor results this season. Next year ought to be a decent test of this theory since, if you believe save percentage is most important, Schneider is the better goalie. (You can use goals against if you want).

 

Offense was probably a bigger factor, but goaltending was right there.

Of course, and to be as respectful as I can about this, if goals against/wins does not reflect this, you'll say it was just luck or Schneider isn't very good ir Broduer was unusually lucky. Chickens/eggs.

 

A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on.  The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now.  If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors.  But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#303 Daniel

Daniel

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,599 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:39 PM

Got years with Weekes and Clemmensen, and the data will be easy to winnow out. Hell, we can sort it by even strength.


Offense was probably a bigger factor, but goaltending was right there.



A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on. The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now. If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors. But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).


You've got one year with Clemmensen. Weekes played what 7 games that year?

I can be convinced, but I doubt shot suppression is ever going to be something you can quantify.
  • 0
Posted Image
I collect spores, molds and fungus.
Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.
How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

#304 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,486 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:16 PM

You've got one year with Clemmensen. Weekes played what 7 games that year?

I can be convinced, but I doubt shot suppression is ever going to be something you can quantify.

 

Weekes played 16 games in 2008-09.

 

The question wouldn't be how much Brodeur suppresses shots, it would be if he does.  I doubt it's a very large effect.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#305 Colorado Rockies 1976

Colorado Rockies 1976

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,230 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:07 PM

A sample size of one doesn't really prove much either way, something which I can tell it's an uphill battle to fight you on.  The Devils' SV% has been mostly rotten for 3 years now.  If they lose Elias, they will also lose one of their best shots against suppressors.  But yeah, if the save percentage is bad, I'll conclude Schneider had a bad season, not that he's necessarily bad - even the greats can have them (like Brodeur from 1999-2002).

 

I don't agree with that assessment.  I think he was weak in 2000-2001 (reg season and playoffs) and was not good in the '99 playoffs.  He was hardly bad in 1999-2000 (.927 playoff save% during the playoffs).  Just going strictly by memory, even though the save%s in those four seasons were .906, .910., .906 and .906, I don't think it's accurate to call that whole stretch bad.  I think he was better overall than the raw %s of those seasons might indicate.  No one was calling him a bad goalie...that's for damned sure. 


  • 0
THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

#30 FOREVER!

20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#306 jim777

jim777

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,589 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:44 PM

..nearly 100 games played, 98 to be exact.
Still though, throughout those 98 games, only 26 regulation losses! The guys got 53 wins over his last 79 starts.. pretty amazing stats over the last 3 years. What's-more, he hasn't even entered his prime yet! Seeing Schneider play any less than 30 games this season would be a letdown.

The Devils better do all they can here not to screw this up. I respect the fact that there needs to be regard dealing with Brodeur's dignity.. however, if Marty shows an unwillingness to bow out graciously after this season, then let him chase 700 on another team.

 

98 still isn't 100, and the post I replied to was "among goalies with at least 100 games..." I'm happy we got the guy, glad we seem to have a transition in the making, but same as I felt when the chatter around possibly grabbing Halak came up, I'd be happier if the guy had played 50 games in an NHL season at least once. If it turns out that he drops off a lot after 50 or 55 games in a season we will need a quality 2nd goalie who can handle 30 games just to get us to the playoffs. Maybe, like Marty in his prime, he can play 70 games per season year in and year out. Right now I am hoping so, and not taking it for granted. That is all :)


Edited by jim777, 02 July 2013 - 10:45 PM.

  • 0

gallery_47_36_882.png   # 44, Stephane Richer

believe-elias.jpg

"bring knee pads...wear flattering attire...hair and makeup should be performance ready" -from Devils Dance Team audition notice


#307 slasher72

slasher72

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 660 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.


  • 0

#308 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,376 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:28 AM

Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.

 

Yes although reports are coming out that Lou and the Devils will be appealing to have that penalty removed.


  • 0

#309 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,469 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:33 AM

Yes although reports are coming out that Lou and the Devils will be appealing to have that penalty removed.


I haven't seen 1 legitimate report suggest that, Lou and TG said the team won't do that, and there isn't any likely scenario where the Devils could win an appeal anyway.
  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#310 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:43 AM

Quick question...we still have to forfeit our first round pick next year, right?  So that means two years in a row of possibly giving up a top 10 pick. I just hope Schnieder is starting within 4 years, otherrwise the swap doesnt make as much sense.

 

Schneider should be starting by the end of 2013-14, whether they want to call him the starter or not.


  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#311 slasher72

slasher72

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 660 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:55 AM

That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.


  • 0

#312 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,469 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:59 AM

That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

 

In comparison, Schneider has played at a high level, when he's played, the last 3 years.  Marty has played, at beast, acceptable, over a similar time frame.  I'm guessing Schneider is the de facto starter by the time the playoffs roll around this season.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#313 Devil Dan 56

Devil Dan 56

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,671 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:13 PM

That's my only concern... Marty is 41 but looks like he could play until he's 44-45. That's not an exaggeration. Others have come close (i.e Ed Belfour). Will Schneider be ok riding the pine that long? Remains to be seen.

 

They won't let Marty hold the team hostage. Once the games start being played, if Schneider outplays Marty as badly as some think he will there will be no question. You can't equate Marty wanting to play in his mid 40's with Marty starting in his mid 40's.


  • 0
Official NJDevs.com Keeper of Gory Corey Schwab, Mike Peluso, Troy Crowder, Jeff Frazee, and Rich Shulmistra.
"The Devils are that zombie that takes an ax to the skull, a bullet to the temple and is set on fire … and yet keeps lumbering along to the annoyance of all the other zombies." - Puck Daddy

#314 DJ Eco

DJ Eco

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,376 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:29 PM

I haven't seen 1 legitimate report suggest that, Lou and TG said the team won't do that, and there isn't any likely scenario where the Devils could win an appeal anyway.

 

True, you're right, although his actions (or inactions) cause me to think possibly otherwise.


  • 0

#315 lazer

lazer

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,716 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

atleast it wasn't Luongo...yes


  • 0
Posted Image

#316 lazer

lazer

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,716 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

In comparison, Schneider has played at a high level, when he's played, the last 3 years.  Marty has played, at beast, acceptable, over a similar time frame.  I'm guessing Schneider is the de facto starter by the time the playoffs roll around this season.

 


  • 0
Posted Image

#317 roomtemp

roomtemp

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 642 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:55 PM

https://twitter.com/...419123705290753

 

"Schneider 's exit from Vancouver was precipitated by off ice issues,rather than goaltending and financial as outlined in Gillis' rationale."

 

Oh God does that mean he's going to shoot someone gangland style?


  • 0

#318 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,761 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:09 PM

https://twitter.com/...419123705290753

 

"Schneider 's exit from Vancouver was precipitated by off ice issues,rather than goaltending and financial as outlined in Gillis' rationale."

 

Oh God does that mean he's going to shoot someone gangland style?

 

According to Wysh who is just going by what he sees on twitter also, word is that Kesler was banging Schneider's gf.

 

Again this is just random twitter comments so take it with a grain of salt.


  • 0

#319 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,469 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:14 PM

According to Wysh who is just going by what he sees on twitter also, word is that Kesler was banging Schneider's gf.

 

Again this is just random twitter comments so take it with a grain of salt.

 

Not only was it a random twitter comment, it's from a random twitter guy that doesn't post any insider stuff.  Much more likely it was a guy making a bad joke.

 

But since it's on twitter and making the rounds, we'll probably hear 2 years from now about how "everyone" knows it's true, etc... etc...


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#320 DevsMan84

DevsMan84

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,761 posts

Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:15 PM

Not only was it a random twitter comment, it's from a random twitter guy that doesn't post any insider stuff.  Much more likely it was a guy making a bad joke.

 

But since it's on twitter and making the rounds, we'll probably hear 2 years from now about how "everyone" knows it's true, etc... etc...

 

Yeah I mean it is surely nonsense and wouldn't have even gotten attention unless Wysh made a mention of it.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users