Jump to content

Photo

Lecav to philly for 5 years 23 mill.


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#21 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:44 PM

All NHL contracts have always been guaranteed for players injured during play - what you'd be doing is forcing Pronger to give that up.  It's not cap circumvention.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#22 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:47 PM

That may not be a fight the league wants.  It's hard to prove he can never play again, since concussions can act strangely.  So you get one doctor arguing Pronger can never play again and another doctor that says Pronger may be able to play again and then you probably couldn't force a retirement.  Team, NHLPA, and Player all say they want the contract to continue in hopes he can play again, tough for an arbiter to overturn on a he said/she said type argument by the league.

 

He's 39 at the start of next season.   This is the kind of stuff they used in the Kovalchuk arbitration.   Let's be honest if it wasn't Comcast, this would be handled differently.    He'd be gone of natural causes within a season or two even if he played all the way through.


All NHL contracts have always been guaranteed for players injured during play - what you'd be doing is forcing Pronger to give that up.  It's not cap circumvention.

 

But a 35+ deal is supposed to stay on the books even if the player is retired.    At minimum they should be forced to buy him out


  • 0

#23 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,468 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

He's 39 at the start of next season.   This is the kind of stuff they used in the Kovalchuk arbitration.   Let's be honest if it wasn't Comcast, this would be handled differently.    He'd be gone of natural causes within a season or two even if he played all the way through.


 

But a 35+ deal is supposed to stay on the books even if the player is retired.    At minimum they should be forced to buy him out

 

The league has already approved Pronger's contract so it's a completely different situation.

 

I believe you can't buy out injured players.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#24 NJDevs4978

NJDevs4978

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,937 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

Well there is the matter of Clarkson's age compared to Vinny's. but yeah if Clarkson gets a $40 million contract I give up on this league.
  • 0
"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#25 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

Yeah, I know, you can't do that because an injured player can't be bought out.


  • 0

#26 BlueSkirt

BlueSkirt

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,824 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

It is BS, but as covered above its very hard to challenge.  So you have to see how frequently this kind of things happens with the 35+ players before making a rule against it.  In this case his misfortune ends up helping the Flyers out of what likely would have been a bad deal, but it was unintentional


  • 0

#27 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:49 PM

The league has already approved Pronger's contract so it's a completely different situation.

 

I believe you can't buy out injured players.

 

They approved the deal because Holmgren gave himself a cap penalty through stupidity.

 

Now happenstance got him out of it.


  • 0

#28 NJDevs4978

NJDevs4978

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,937 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

All NHL contracts have always been guaranteed for players injured during play - what you'd be doing is forcing Pronger to give that up. It's not cap circumvention.


It kind of is since if he retired the Flyers would be stuck with the dead cap number, but since he's technically not retired they can hide his cap number on LTIR forever.
  • 0
"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#29 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,182 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:52 PM

Isn't Lecavalier a Center? 

 

I wonder if they'll move Schenn to wing and look to deal off Talbot.  Doubt they make any  big trades but who knows with Holmgren.  Their defense is  still a mess and their goalie situation is terrible.

Looks like Vinny took the retirement deal.  Not sure this a good move for either player or team, but I doubt Laviolette will last the full season so might take a bit more time to judge.


  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#30 CarpathianForest

CarpathianForest

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,086 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:57 PM

Isn't Lecavalier a Center? 

 

I wonder if they'll move Schenn to wing and look to deal off Talbot.  Doubt they make any  big trades but who knows with Holmgren.  Their defense is  still a mess and their goalie situation is terrible.

Looks like Vinny took the retirement deal.  Not sure this a good move for either player or team, but I doubt Laviolette will last the full season so might take a bit more time to judge.

 

If they move Talbot, Lou should work behind the scenes to get him from the recipient of that deal.


  • 0

screenshot-sml-40.jpg
 


#31 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,468 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:59 PM

It kind of is since if he retired the Flyers would be stuck with the dead cap number, but since he's technically not retired they can hide his cap number on LTIR forever.

 

It's not totally hidden though, it still counts towards the offseason and opening day cap number.

This is just one of those odd situations that happens.  If Pronger wasn't an over 35 contract would people care that much that he hadn't retired?  In that case it would be hurting the Flyers much more that he wouldn't retire.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#32 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:12 PM

Why would pronger retire? Why give up the money? He was injured during play. He should get all of that money and the Flyers should be able to LTIR it. I have no problem with how this turned out.
  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#33 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:17 PM

Why would pronger retire? Why give up the money? He was injured during play. He should get all of that money and the Flyers should be able to LTIR it. I have no problem with how this turned out.

 

So, you think he was hanging around for league minimum in 2016 when he's 42 years old?


  • 0

#34 Jimmy Leeds

Jimmy Leeds

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,378 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

Failyers will be hating the Vinny deal in about 2 years.....


  • 0
I DRINK LOU-AID
Posted Image

Posted Image

Kill Mumia

#35 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,468 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:25 PM

So, you think he was hanging around for league minimum in 2016 when he's 42 years old?

 

What difference does that make to what's going on right now?  How does that get into the league should force retirement on players for injuries?


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#36 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:30 PM

What difference does that make to what's going on right now?  How does that get into the league should force retirement on players for injuries?

 

I'm using the logic they used in arbitration.   What's the % of defensemen that played a 42 year old season?    He's getting up around retirement age already.    Forcing him out (at least when the money runs out after the 14-15 season) seems pretty logical to me.   Are they going to keep him hidden in a dark room until July 1, 2017?


  • 0

#37 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:35 PM

I'm using the logic they used in arbitration.   What's the % of defensemen that played a 42 year old season?    He's getting up around retirement age already.    Forcing him out (at least when the money runs out after the 14-15 season) seems pretty logical to me.   Are they going to keep him hidden in a dark room until July 1, 2017?

 

Again, the contract was registered with the league, it's preposterous to call it cap circumvention - a player on IR is eligible to collect the remainder of his contract so long as he is injured doing hockey activities.  How long the contract goes or how much it pays in each year is totally irrelevant.  

 

Given that Pronger got hurt during the meat of the contract and this isn't a drummed up injury, it's even more silly.


Edited by Triumph, 02 July 2013 - 07:37 PM.

  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#38 maxpower

maxpower

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:39 PM

Again, the contract was registered with the league, it's preposterous to call it cap circumvention - a player on IR is eligible to collect the remainder of his contract so long as he is injured doing hockey activities.  How long the contract goes or how much it pays in each year is totally irrelevant.  

 

Given that Pronger got hurt during the meat of the contract and this isn't a drummed up injury, it's even more silly.

 

I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention.

 

If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water.   So he can't fly back from Russia.  LTIR.


  • 0

#39 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,427 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention.

 

If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water.   So he can't fly back from Russia.  LTIR.

 

There is no dog and pony show.  He's hurt and can't play hockey.  It's very straightforward.


  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#40 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,468 posts

Posted 02 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention.

 

If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water.   So he can't fly back from Russia.  LTIR.

 

Ya, that's what people complained about the Devils doing with Mogilny and it was allowed then.

 

There isn't really a dog and pony show, the guy is hurt, it's real, and so this is how the rules are followed.  Mogilny was a much more likely fakeout.


  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users