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2013-14 Prospect Thread


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#61 Devils731

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:47 PM

How can any 5th round pick be safe when almost none of them make the NHL? If a player was a likely NHL player or a "safe" bet then they'd be taken much earlier, regardless of upside.
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#62 Daniel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:01 PM

How can any 5th round pick be safe when almost none of them make the NHL? If a player was a likely NHL player or a "safe" bet then they'd be taken much earlier, regardless of upside.

 

True, though "safe" is a term of art I suppose.  As someone said, "safe" is Ben Johnson or Ben Thomson.     Upside with risk are Gavrus, Myles Bell, and I guess you could even say someone like Loktionov. 

 

I haven't seen any type of statistical analysis, but bottom round goons, by the eyeball test anyway, seem to make it in the league at a fairly high rate.  Nevertheless, if it were me, a GM would get an electric shock if he ever tried to draft one.


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#63 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

By "safe" pick, it doesn't matter where in the draft he's taken.  So that Pietilla was a fifth rounder is irrelevant.  I'd rather take a chance on a Reid Boucher or Gavrus, or someone like that.  If anything, you take those risks in the later rounds.  And it's funny you bring up how much Pandolfo got paid, considering all we heard was how awful his contract was.

 

Okay, fine, but again, there's no such thing as a safe pick.  High-risk picks get worse and riskier as the draft goes on.  Gavrus had 2 major concussions and had a subpar year in the OHL this year.  He's an enormous longshot to ever be a 15 minute a game NHLer.  It happens, but very seldom.  I agree that teams should take these 'chances' - the mistake teams make (and NJ made it with Ben Johnson) is drafting players who have certain roles and figuring they can envision them in that role at the NHL level.

 

 

Also, bottom line talent has not been the Devils problem, the past couple of years.  

 

Oh really?  You mean the team that used Brad Mills for 27 games in 2011-12 and still continues to use Tim Sestito and Stephen Gionta, doesn't have a problem with lower line talent?  And again, Carter and Bernier are going to get paid after their contract is up.  The players currently in the organization who look like they could fill in that role are Stefan Matteau and uhh..

 

Their fourth line is good for what it is, and all of them make around the league minimun, and all were unwanted free agents.  In fact, all the talk is about the logjam on bottom two lines.   Their problem, especially this year, is scoring on the top lines, although that might change if Jagr, Clowe and Ryder exceed expectations.

 

Sure.  You're not likely to change that through drafting players that low in the draft.  Sure, you've got Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  There's not many of those players out there.


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#64 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:13 PM

I asked Corey about Pietila on twitter without knowing his stats really slowed down after the WJC. The eye test alone, Pietila passed with flying colors, he clogs lanes superbly, is very intelligent and has a very quick stick at the blueline. In terms of raw skills, he is an excellent skater, strong on his skates and aggressive on the forecheck. Pre WJC +3 shots a game was very impressive as well.


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#65 Daniel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:23 PM

Okay, fine, but again, there's no such thing as a safe pick.  High-risk picks get worse and riskier as the draft goes on.  Gavrus had 2 major concussions and had a subpar year in the OHL this year.  He's an enormous longshot to ever be a 15 minute a game NHLer.  It happens, but very seldom.  I agree that teams should take these 'chances' - the mistake teams make (and NJ made it with Ben Johnson) is drafting players who have certain roles and figuring they can envision them in that role at the NHL level.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh really?  You mean the team that used Brad Mills for 27 games in 2011-12 and still continues to use Tim Sestito and Stephen Gionta, doesn't have a problem with lower line talent?  And again, Carter and Bernier are going to get paid after their contract is up.  The players currently in the organization who look like they could fill in that role are Stefan Matteau and uhh..

 

 

 

 

Sure.  You're not likely to change that through drafting players that low in the draft.  Sure, you've got Datsyuk and Zetterberg.  There's not many of those players out there.

 

 

The amount of playing time that Brad Mills and Tim Sestito got isn't what kept the Devils back. And Sestito got 6 games and then 18 games the year before.  That, and Brad Mills' 27 games a few years ago doesn't sound like a crisis to me.   And with Gionta, it was not for lack of better alternatives that he gets the playing time that he does.  Josefson got sent down to the AHL while Gionta was still playing.  DeBoer and Lou, rightly or wrongly, just seem to like him. 


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#66 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:10 PM

The amount of playing time that Brad Mills and Tim Sestito got isn't what kept the Devils back. And Sestito got 6 games and then 18 games the year before.  That, and Brad Mills' 27 games a few years ago doesn't sound like a crisis to me.   And with Gionta, it was not for lack of better alternatives that he gets the playing time that he does.  Josefson got sent down to the AHL while Gionta was still playing.  DeBoer and Lou, rightly or wrongly, just seem to like him. 

 

Patrik Elias:  career high in ice time per game.

Zach Parise:  career high in ice time per game.

Ilya Kovalchuk:  set a career high in ice time per game, eclipsed it in 2013 for some reason

Dainius Zubrus:  had the most minutes per game he had as a Devil

 

The Devils leaned heavily on their top players in 2011-12.  Is that why they were nearly run out of the building in the Cup Finals?  I can't say.  But I can't say that I love the coaching staff having to play their top guys that much because the bottom guys couldn't pull their weight.  The bottom lines aren't as important as the top lines, but punting them is a large mistake - NJ's punted one or both of them a few too many times in the last few years.  Part of it is because they haven't developed a player besides David Clarkson who plays significant minutes on them (Josefson may now be one).


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#67 thefiestygoat

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 02:56 PM

Buzzing the Net: Gatineau Olympiques move goalie; Anthony Brodeur has clearer path to QMJHL foothold

 

 

It's also topical since the 'Piques just traded 18-year-old sophomore goaltender Eric Brassard to the Charlottetown Islanders.

I still have my doubts about him, but hopefully this will help him get some playing time now.

 

EDIT: Glancing at their roster, looks like Robert Steeves could be the starter with Alexandre Duckett, Anthony Brodeur, and Simon Bergeron battling for the back up spot.


Edited by thefiestygoat, 02 August 2013 - 03:01 PM.

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#68 Daniel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:57 PM


The amount of playing time that Brad Mills and Tim Sestito got isn't what kept the Devils back. And Sestito got 6 games and then 18 games the year before. That, and Brad Mills' 27 games a few years ago doesn't sound like a crisis to me. And with Gionta, it was not for lack of better alternatives that he gets the playing time that he does. Josefson got sent down to the AHL while Gionta was still playing. DeBoer and Lou, rightly or wrongly, just seem to like him.



Patrik Elias: career high in ice time per game.
Zach Parise: career high in ice time per game.
Ilya Kovalchuk: set a career high in ice time per game, eclipsed it in 2013 for some reason
Dainius Zubrus: had the most minutes per game he had as a Devil

The Devils leaned heavily on their top players in 2011-12. Is that why they were nearly run out of the building in the Cup Finals? I can't say. But I can't say that I love the coaching staff having to play their top guys that much because the bottom guys couldn't pull their weight. The bottom lines aren't as important as the top lines, but punting them is a large mistake - NJ's punted one or both of them a few too many times in the last few years. Part of it is because they haven't developed a player besides David Clarkson who plays significant minutes on them (Josefson may now be one).


They GOT to the Cup finals in large part because they got scoring from their bottom line, who were especially effective in the Rangers series. Seven goals during the playoffs for your bottom line where none of them are on the PP is pretty darn good. They were also pretty effective scoring goals during last years regular season, which tells you there's some trend there, and it might get better if you consider Gionta to be a very weak link.

The Devils got run out of the Cup finals just like LA smacked around every other team they played, because they were a much better team. That's especially when you take into account the fact that Kovalchuk was obviously playing at something like 60 percent, and the injury was not something you can chalk up to him getting too much ice time. But even so, they were a goal post away from winning game 1, and they lost game 2 in OT as well.


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#69 thefiestygoat

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:14 PM

Getting back to the whole "safe" thing that Daniel brought up. I agree that there is no such thing as a "safe" pick, but I do think there is such a thing as a "safe skill set." A player like Pietila who may not have much offensive upside but is a strong skater, understands the game at an above average level, and plays well defensively would be a player I'd consider to have a "safe skill set" since he's more likely to contribute as a NHL player than a upside offensive guys like Boucher or Gavrus whose overall skill sets are lacking. I'm not sure if that is what Daniel was getting at but that's my opinion. I can understand why some people wouldn't want to use the word "safe" when talking about prospects though since there is no such thing as a "can't miss prospect."


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#70 Triumph

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:38 PM

They GOT to the Cup finals in large part because they got scoring from their bottom line, who were especially effective in the Rangers series. Seven goals during the playoffs for your bottom line where none of them are on the PP is pretty darn good. They were also pretty effective scoring goals during last years regular season, which tells you there's some trend there, and it might get better if you consider Gionta to be a very weak link.

 

 

They got 2 goals in the regular season, none of them coming before March.  All players involved are UFA after next year and none are younger than 28.

 

 

 

The Devils got run out of the Cup finals just like LA smacked around every other team they played, because they were a much better team. That's especially when you take into account the fact that Kovalchuk was obviously playing at something like 60 percent, and the injury was not something you can chalk up to him getting too much ice time. But even so, they were a goal post away from winning game 1, and they lost game 2 in OT as well.

 

NJ basically didn't outplay anyone from Game 4 of the Rangers series on.  The Devils had dominated the Flyers for 4 games and had dominated for long stretches against the Panthers.  But the Devils got absolutely worked in the Finals.  Might they have been tired?  I don't know.  Point is, it'd be nice to have a bottom 6 made up mostly of guys NJ drafted or signed as UDFA, instead of having to comb through other people's trash.  I wouldn't do it at the cost of a top 6.

 

EDIT:  Yeah, I see what you're saying fiesty, I just don't like the implication.  Pietila isn't one of these guys who NJ drafts who can't score at all and for some reason they're convinced this guy can cut it as a pro.  He's holding his own offensively and while he'll almost certainly lose a lot of that offense as a pro, he seems like he might have the skills necessary to be a decent 10th forward type.


Edited by Triumph, 02 August 2013 - 05:39 PM.

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#71 Derek21

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 03:06 PM

For anyone that cares, I caught the third of Team White versus Sweden. Sweden won 4-2. Three of their four goals came on the power play including the final two. Devil prospect Steve Santini played. I put up a post on New York Puck.

 

Team USA Blue battles Finland now. Stefan Matteau takes part along with some other Battle prospects.


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#72 thefiestygoat

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:16 PM

Sunday 8/4
WJC Evaluation Camp
USA White lost to Sweden 4-2
D Steve Santini: No points or PIM, +/- not kept on game sheet

Corey Pronman on Santini: "Quality. Won't be a big offense guy but makes stops, hits and good outlets."

 

USA Blue lost to Finland 6-5 (OT)
LW Stefan Matteau: No points or PIM, +/- not kept on game sheet

Corey Pronman on Matteau: "Below-average. That 2nd line hasn't done much of anything since the 1st period."

 

Matteau LW on a line with RW Adam Erne and C Dominic Toninato.


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#73 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:06 PM

lol, my mistake Erne played LW when I seen him.


Edited by Jas0nMacIsaac, 04 August 2013 - 06:07 PM.

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#74 Derek21

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:46 PM

Sunday 8/4
WJC Evaluation Camp
USA White lost to Sweden 4-2
D Steve Santini: No points or PIM, +/- not kept on game sheet

Corey Pronman on Santini: "Quality. Won't be a big offense guy but makes stops, hits and good outlets."

 

USA Blue lost to Finland 6-5 (OT)
LW Stefan Matteau: No points or PIM, +/- not kept on game sheet

Corey Pronman on Matteau: "Below-average. That 2nd line hasn't done much of anything since the 1st period."

 

Matteau LW on a line with RW Adam Erne and C Dominic Toninato.

 

I watched the entire second game. Matteau wasn't too good. I wrote a whole review on the blog. Teuvo Terevainen was a beast for Finland. Looks like the Blackhawks have great scouts. Connor Carrick was our best player.


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#75 thefiestygoat

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:27 PM

I watched the entire second game. Matteau wasn't too good. I wrote a whole review on the blog. Teuvo Terevainen was a beast for Finland. Looks like the Blackhawks have great scouts. Connor Carrick was our best player.

Nice recap, seems like it was a wild finish! Just found your accounts on twitter so I gave you a follow. Nice to have you back on the forum, seems like it's been a few years.

 

Also somewhat off topic, but everytime I see the name Connor Carrick I can't help but picture Manchester United's Michael Carrick on skates. It's throwing me off a bit.


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#76 nessus

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:26 AM

Santini continues to impress. I'm liking this pick more and more.

 

Matteau on the other hand is rather concerning. I still kind of wish they went for Collberg, or even Frk, with that pick in the 2012 draft. I have heard only good things about Collberg. But as a first round, pick, you'd expect someone to put up a bit more points in the Q the year after being drafted. And now it's not even the final cut for the US team, and he's having trouble looking decent. 

 

Pretty weird that he's the Devils' most promising forward prospect. It would be nice to have a Granlund, or a Niederreiter, or a Nyquist in our system at some point in the near future. Not that all of those guys are guaranteed first line players, but they've got potential, and much more than Matteau or Boucher probably have.


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#77 Triumph

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

Santini continues to impress. I'm liking this pick more and more.

 

Matteau on the other hand is rather concerning. I still kind of wish they went for Collberg, or even Frk, with that pick in the 2012 draft. I have heard only good things about Collberg. But as a first round, pick, you'd expect someone to put up a bit more points in the Q the year after being drafted. And now it's not even the final cut for the US team, and he's having trouble looking decent. 

 

Pretty weird that he's the Devils' most promising forward prospect. It would be nice to have a Granlund, or a Niederreiter, or a Nyquist in our system at some point in the near future. Not that all of those guys are guaranteed first line players, but they've got potential, and much more than Matteau or Boucher probably have.

 

Matteau had a very odd year last year -

 

He went to junior from the USNDP, unlike most players who are in junior hockey from the beginning.

He went to USNT camp and was the last cut

He went into the NHL for two months or so

He played on a stacked team and only tended to get 3rd line ice time.

 

Plus with his skill set, he's not going to put up a ton of points - the number I'd be more concerned with is goals.  Guys who go to the net (your Hartnells, Malones, Torreses) don't get a ton of assists.

 

I think he'll be in the AHL this year and I'm hoping for something like 20 goals 20 assists per 80 games.


Edited by Triumph, 05 August 2013 - 08:57 AM.

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#78 SMantzas

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:54 PM

Pronman says Matteau was one of USA's best players in the first period today
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#79 thefiestygoat

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:21 PM

Adam Kimelman

"Stefan Matteau hurt, helped off ice after being hit hard in head by Sweden's Anton Lindholm. Lindholm gets 5 for charging, game misconduct"

 

Corey Pronman

"SWE getting a major penalty for the hit on Matteau. Walking on his own to the dressing room."

 

But before that....

Chris Peters

"Brady Vail wins a draw cleanly to Matteau, who got it back to Will Butcher. Nice shot (maybe tipped) beats Hogberg from left point. 3-1 SWE"

 

He's skating LW on a line with C Brady Vail and RW Hudson Fasching today.


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#80 Derek21

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:37 PM

Team USA White took the second game 5-2 from Finland. They scored the first five. Santini with an assist. Isles' prospect Taylor Cammarata with a goal and 2 helpers.


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