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#221 Daniel

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 11:47 AM

 I wish I could find another example of a player who did okay at the junior and AHL level, but then became a solid first liner, but I can't yet.

 

 

 

Maybe James Neal.  I don't know if he's been a "first liner", but at least in Dallas he scored 20+ goals a year, and scored 21 goals in 59 games his last year.  Those sound like numbers that would make you a first liner on a lot of teams.


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#222 capo

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:11 PM

Talent-wise he's a 3rd liner.  I'm afraid of the paycheck he's going to get based on his fanfare and clutch '12 playoff rund.  Hopefully Lou learned from the Zajac contract.


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#223 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:34 PM

Talent-wise he's a 3rd liner.  I'm afraid of the paycheck he's going to get based on his fanfare and clutch '12 playoff rund.  Hopefully Lou learned from the Zajac contract.

 

Of course, if Lou hadn't re-signed Zajac before the season and had lost him this year, then SD and the rest would've been screaming about how Lou never keeps his UFAs and how he should've traded Zajac before losing him for prospects.  Poor guy can't ever win.

 

Signing Zajac was a risk, and it was based on Zajac's good '08-'09 and '09-'10 seasons.  If you're implying that this is already a bad contract, I think it's too early to say that, but Travis can't average .417 PPG next season...he really needs to be between .5 and .6 (basically 40-50 points)...not thrilling stuff, but at least respectable.  I'd consider anything beyond 50 a bonus, but I'm holding out hope we haven't already seen Travis' best.   


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#224 Triumph

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:57 PM

Talent-wise he's a 3rd liner.  I'm afraid of the paycheck he's going to get based on his fanfare and clutch '12 playoff rund.  Hopefully Lou learned from the Zajac contract.

 

How many third-liners do you think are better than Adam Henrique?


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#225 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:10 PM

sale of the team tomorrow should clear the doubts of some players we are targeting.


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#226 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:13 PM

sale of the team tomorrow should clear the doubts of some players we are targeting.

 

Was that an issue though?  If you're referring to Brunner, I think it's more that Lou doesn't think he's worth what he's asking.  And with Henrique, Lou's holding the keys on that one.


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THE NHL MUST LOVE THE DEVILS - from who else? A RANGER fan!
[Mark Messier]: A big, bald attention whore with a stupid Easter Island-lookin face. - from who else? DaneykoIsGod!

Even when Marty comes back maybe Larry should put Clemmensen to be on the goal during the shootouts.
Can the coach do that ? Switch the goalies 5 seconds to go in overtime?
- Most priceless quote ever posted on a message board.

Martin Brodeur: THE MOST ALL-TIME WINS!, 12 straight seasons of 30+ wins, 3 Stanley Cups, 4 Vezina Trophies, and zero respect from too many so-called Devils "fans" who are either too young or too bandwagon to remember the much darker days of Sean Burke, Craig Billington, Bob Sauve, Alain Chevrier, and the talented but overwhelmed Chico Resch, among many others.

It's easy to support a great player when he's playing at his very best. It takes a true fan to support that same player during those rare moments and stretches when he's not. Babe Ruth went 0-4 some games, and sometimes Wayne Gretzky was held pointless. There may be such a thing as greatness, but no such thing as absolute perfection every single night.

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20 out of 1,946 njdevs.com members agree: CR1976 is the Most Knowledgable Poster of 2008! Victory is mine...oh yes, victory is mine!

#227 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:02 PM

Was that an issue though?  If you're referring to Brunner, I think it's more that Lou doesn't think he's worth what he's asking.  And with Henrique, Lou's holding the keys on that one.

 

not from our end, but players like schneider re-signing and good players coming over, it's a huge deal.


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#228 Daniel

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:04 PM


sale of the team tomorrow should clear the doubts of some players we are targeting.



Was that an issue though? If you're referring to Brunner, I think it's more that Lou doesn't think he's worth what he's asking. And with Henrique, Lou's holding the keys on that one.


It doesn't help that there's not really any room for Brunner either.


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#229 NJDevs4978

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:35 PM

Er, thought you were talking about Zajac, not Henrique.  Anyhow, Zajac hasn't even played a game under his contract yet so it's a little early to call it a 'mistake' (and even if it was, it was a mistake we had to chance with our utter lack of centers/forwards in the system).  This season will be a telltale one for him, whether he can be a first-liner without Parise or an overpaid third-liner with intangibles.

 

It's a little early to write the book on Henrique but this'll be a telling year for him too.  Two years ago he had a solid year in between 9 and 17, last year not so much.  Even in the AHL he struggled.


Edited by NJDevs4978, 14 August 2013 - 08:38 PM.

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#230 DJ Eco

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:00 AM

not from our end, but players like schneider re-signing and good players coming over, it's a huge deal.

 

Ditto... Schneider's probably the one who's most affected (in a positive way, for us) by the new ownership. If he has a good year this year, I can't see why we won't offer him a long-term deal to lock him up by next June... And as Schneider goes personally, I'd assume he's much more at ease being in New Jersey than he was on draft weekend (with all the ownership and bankruptcy stuff all in the air)...


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#231 Bibby89

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:02 PM

So apparently The Hockey News has the Devils picked to finish last in the division and 12th in the conference. No surprise there I guess. Also, anyone on here from FLA and know where I can pick up the new yearbook? I can't remember for the life of me where I've bought it the past few years down here.
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#232 capo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 08:11 PM

How many third-liners do you think are better than Adam Henrique?

I really don't know.  I don't know how that changes anything.  I didn't say there was anything wrong with him.  I just don't think he's top 6.


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#233 Triumph

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:34 PM

I really don't know.  I don't know how that changes anything.  I didn't say there was anything wrong with him.  I just don't think he's top 6.

 

So in other words 'I have no idea how Henrique compares to his peers, but I can say definitively that he belongs in this group and not that group'.  

 

People overestimate how many points/goals a player on a particular line 'should' score.  Henrique would already be one of the best 3rd line players in the league, and he's still probably got a little bit of improvement left to do.


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#234 capo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:58 PM

So in other words 'I have no idea how Henrique compares to his peers, but I can say definitively that he belongs in this group and not that group'.  

 

People overestimate how many points/goals a player on a particular line 'should' score.  Henrique would already be one of the best 3rd line players in the league, and he's still probably got a little bit of improvement left to do.

Production aside. I'm considering things he does to make his team better.  Is he a playermaker? No, I can't classify him as that.  Is he a goal scorer? I can't give him that either.  So, where do you put him? He's a grinder who is good on the pk.  That says 3rd line to me.


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#235 Triumph

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 08:32 AM

Production aside. I'm considering things he does to make his team better.  Is he a playermaker? No, I can't classify him as that.  Is he a goal scorer? I can't give him that either.  So, where do you put him? He's a grinder who is good on the pk.  That says 3rd line to me.

 

He has .57 points per 82 games in his NHL career.  Granted I don't think he'll stay at that rate, but guys who score 15-20 goals with 15-25 assists per 82 games - yeah, they're not really 3rd line players, unless they're on deep teams.  Once NJ figures out that Henrique isn't best at center, he'll start to get some more shots and more goals.  


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#236 Daniel

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 10:21 AM

He has .57 points per 82 games in his NHL career.  Granted I don't think he'll stay at that rate, but guys who score 15-20 goals with 15-25 assists per 82 games - yeah, they're not really 3rd line players, unless they're on deep teams.  Once NJ figures out that Henrique isn't best at center, he'll start to get some more shots and more goals.  

 

The other thing about Henrique is that, I've read anyway, is that he got very tough minutes as a rookie, which is pretty rare.  And he seemed to hold his own at that. 

 

Whatever the case, I don't think there's enough of a track record to get a good handle on what he'll ultimately be.  He had a full season playing with some very good players that are no longer on the team.  And it's pretty difficult to gauge a player that otherwise doesn't have a steady proven trackrecord based on last season.  Last season could prove to be especially quirky for the Devils in that there were key injuries for a good chunk of the season. 


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#237 nessus

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 12:40 PM

The other thing about Henrique is that, I've read anyway, is that he got very tough minutes as a rookie, which is pretty rare.  And he seemed to hold his own at that. 

 

Whatever the case, I don't think there's enough of a track record to get a good handle on what he'll ultimately be.  He had a full season playing with some very good players that are no longer on the team.  And it's pretty difficult to gauge a player that otherwise doesn't have a steady proven trackrecord based on last season.  Last season could prove to be especially quirky for the Devils in that there were key injuries for a good chunk of the season. 

This could be a fair point. Outside of Elias, Kovalchuk, and the first quarter of the season for Clarkson, the Devils did not have a great year offensively.

 

On another note, we're approaching September and Henrique is still not signed. I wonder what's taking so long. Is there a time to start worrying about this?


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#238 ATLL765

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 03:40 PM

This could be a fair point. Outside of Elias, Kovalchuk, and the first quarter of the season for Clarkson, the Devils did not have a great year offensively.

 

On another note, we're approaching September and Henrique is still not signed. I wonder what's taking so long. Is there a time to start worrying about this?

If it's not done by the time camp starts, I'll be concerned. Otherwise I'd give it a week from now to let the dust settle from the ownership change and see if that announcement is what was holding up Henrique's deal.


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#239 Daniel

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:04 PM

If it's not done by the time camp starts, I'll be concerned. Otherwise I'd give it a week from now to let the dust settle from the ownership change and see if that announcement is what was holding up Henrique's deal.

 

It also might mean that Henrique is testing whether he can get a deal approximating what Landeskog got. 


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#240 2ELIAS6

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 04:12 PM

whatever ended up happening with brunner nothing right? I havent heard anything more about him signing with any other team
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